Proving The Existence Of Allah (swt)to An Atheist

[Balthasar21]

show me a book which has stood the test of time for four hundred years? let alone 1400...

By - Bill = Bible . Which was here before the Quraan .Even you know this

 

[wilberhum]

u didnt quite get my point lol but i just wanted to show the stupidity of athiests:thumbs_up

I think you have misjudged who has showen there stupitity. :?

 

[Gator]

u didnt quite get my point lol but i just wanted to show the stupidity of athiests:thumbs_up

ok.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

By - Bill = Bible . Which was here before the Quraan .Even you know this

lol, the bible is not preserved in its untouched original form, even you know this.

now when i say the test of time, i mean that the quran has not been altered AT ALL, the way it was recited and understood 1400 years ago, remains the same today !

 

[nebula]

if ur a athiest then why are u on this forum? if u do not believe in god?

this means u are insecure with ur belief that god doesnt exist and you just wanna keep argueing to keep urself happy.

 

[wilberhum]

if ur a athiest then why are u on this forum? if u do not believe in god?

this means u are insecure with ur belief that god doesnt exist and you just wanna keep argueing to keep urself happy.

Does your belief in god give you such great ability to judge others? :rollseyes

Or is it just another commonality of theists? Part of that smug attitude of superiority? :skeleton: :?

 

[nevesirth]

Just to clarify one thing out: I never said, I'm an Atheist, or at least tell me, where I mentionned that!

Religion is one thing, believing in something/someone ist another thing.

I just refuse to believe in something which simply doesn't exist. Curiously, we can proove the existance of bones of a fauna (like dinosaures) which lived millions of years ago. Even the Egyptians with Pyramids, the Chinese with the great wall were able to show 5000 years ago of their existance, but from this Jesus/Mohammed stuff, I can see nothing. It's all just hear and say.

So far...

If some like to believe that, well it's their own right. The thread asked an opinion, I gave one, so no need to insult me, if my opinion differ from yours, specially directed to nevesirth

i never insulted u. all im saying is tht no man can sincerely believe tht a supreme force doesnt exist, u may not refer to the supreme as a biing or a spirit or whtever, but u cant deny the fact tht something beyond the human comprehension exists which propelled existence into being. ok, u chose not to believe in something which u cant see physicaly, wht about air? the fact tht u dont see air doesnt mean u dont believe in its existence,thts because u can feel air. so the fact tht u can feel anythig at all or u are alive should open ur eyes to the reality of the existence of the creator as something beyond ur comprehension which sustains human existence and life in general!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[snakelegs]

if ur a athiest then why are u on this forum? if u do not believe in god?

this means u are insecure with ur belief that god doesnt exist and you just wanna keep argueing to keep urself happy.

nah - it just means they wanna preach too.
(note - i am not an atheist)

 

[Trumble]

u didnt quite get my point lol but i just wanted to show the stupidity of athiests:thumbs_up

You failed miserably.

lol, the bible is not preserved in its untouched original form, even you know this.

now when i say the test of time, i mean that the quran has not been altered AT ALL, the way it was recited and understood 1400 years ago, remains the same today !

Athough nobody made a habit of 'reciting' them we have no less reason to believe Plato's 'Republic' or Caesar's 'The Conquest of Gaul' have been altered either and there's certainly no reason to 'understand' them differently. Ditto the Lotus Sutra come to that. Why do such claims about the Qur'an always seem to assume the Bible was the only other book ever written? Even then the Bible is many books written over the course of a millennium, so its hardly a fair comparison.

 

[wilberhum]

nevesirth

i never insulted u. all im saying is tht no man can sincerely believe tht a supreme force doesnt exist,

Is it beyond your ability to understand calling some one a liar is insulting? :skeleton:

 

[nevesirth]

nevesirth

Is it beyond your ability to understand calling some one a liar is insulting? :skeleton:

hey!! inever called anyone a liar, i said atheists are living in denial. do u get the picture. stop puttin words in my mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Athough nobody made a habit of 'reciting' them we have no less reason to believe Plato's 'Republic' or Caesar's 'The Conquest of Gaul' have been altered either and there's certainly no reason to 'understand' them differently. Ditto the Lotus Sutra come to that. Why do such claims about the Qur'an always seem to assume the Bible was the only other book ever written? Even then the Bible is many books written over the course of a millennium, so its hardly a fair comparison.

it doesnt matter if you think other documents are unaltered, although until you can prove it i will never take that in lol, infact i can propably prove otherwise via the help of the good internet that it was changed. but no one can prove that the quran was altered..

Trumble in all honesty and if you really think about it, do you think it possible for a piece of writing to stay unaltered in text/sound and meaning for over 500 years let alone 1400 years?

and what reason do you have to believe the quran was altered?

if the Quran was altered then why cant we find any changes at all? i mean there are certain parts of the bible which make you think "no way could this be the true thing" ie the incest mentioned by ahmed deedat. theres so many factors..

 

[wilberhum]

hey!! inever called anyone a liar, i said atheists are living in denial. do u get the picture. stop puttin words in my mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, what you said was:

no man can sincerely believe tht a supreme force doesnt exist,

He said he doen't believe. You called him a liar.
If you can't see that you need to reread. :skeleton:

Don't ever, I mean never, tell some one he dosn't believe what he says he believes. There is no two ways about it. You call them a liar. :raging: :raging:

 

[nevesirth]

No, what you said was:

He said he doen't believe. You called him a liar.
If you can't see that you need to reread. :skeleton:

Don't ever, I mean never, tell some one he dosn't believe what he says he believes. There is no two ways about it. You call them a liar. :raging: :raging:

if he rlly doesnt believe, thts up 2 him. but its jst like someone saying he doesnt believe tht air exists, ill find it hard to believe hes serious, it jst sounds like denial to me thts all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Balthasar21]

lol, the bible is not preserved in its untouched original form, even you know this.

now when i say the test of time, i mean that the quran has not been altered AT ALL, the way it was recited and understood 1400 years ago, remains the same today !

Then why are they diffrent translation of the Qur'aan if it hasn't been altered ?

 

[wilberhum]

if he rlly doesnt believe, thts up 2 him.

Well now you are getting your facts right.

but its jst like someone saying he doesnt believe tht air exists

No, it isn't anything like that. Air has physical properties. Its existence can be proven.

ill find it hard to believe hes serious

Because he doesn’t believe what you believe?
Believe me he is as serious about his atheism as I am about my agnosticism, which could be as serious as you are about your theism, maybe more.

it jst sounds like denial to me thts all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like is not very factual.
Never forget, more people believe different than you than like you.
That statement holds true regardless of your religion.

 

[nevesirth]

Well now you are getting your facts right.

No, it isn't anything like that. Air has physical properties. Its existence can be proven.

yeah, for the mere fact tht air has physical properties, thts enough to say the supreme being exists and also has physical properties, if not, where does the air come from? the fact tht there is the ability to feel or percieve anything physical goes a long way to prove the existence of a supreme force, because physicality itself has an origing and a source.

 

[Trumble]

Trumble in all honesty and if you really think about it, do you think it possible for a piece of writing to stay unaltered in text/sound and meaning for over 500 years let alone 1400 years?

Yes, of course its possible. Why shouldn't it be? Nobody argues about the text, or the meaning, of 'The Conquest of Gaul' or a thousand other books from classical Greece and Rome, or indeed ancient Chinese books such as the Art of War or the Book of Chuang Tzu. It's just a conceit that the Qur'an is or could be the only one, hence the constant comparison with the Bible which, as you rightly say, we know has been altered in the specifics of it's text if not its meaning.

and what reason do you have to believe the quran was altered?

I didn't say it had been. My point is that other, even older, books are equally unaltered.

if the Quran was altered then why cant we find any changes at all? i mean there are certain parts of the bible which make you think "no way could this be the true thing" ie the incest mentioned by ahmed deedat. theres so many factors..

Again, the comparison with the Bible. You are answering somebody else's point, not mine.

it doesnt matter if you think other documents are unaltered, although until you can prove it i will never take that in lol, infact i can propably prove otherwise via the help of the good internet that it was changed

Of course it doesn't matter.. you are immune to rational argument on the subject as your position is purely faith based.

Incidently, you cannot claim that the 'meaning' of the Qur'an is unchanged, at least if you are an advocate of the 'scientific proofs'. To accomodate those, verses must be understood as having different meanings from those held for centuries. It is inadequate merely to claim that 'we can only understand in the light of modern science' or such as that still does not alter the fact that the meaning must have changed. If you travelled back in time and asked a fifteenth century scholar about the meaning of passages some now like to think refer to continental drift or the expanding universe and such he wouldn't say, "yes, well, I don't understand that bit". He would provide another interpretation, another meaning. One that would be far more likely to be correct IMHO, but I've covered that already.

 

[wilberhum]

nevesirth

yeah, for the mere fact tht air has physical properties, thts enough to say the supreme being exists

No, how does something having physical properties prove god?

and also has physical properties, if not, where does the air come from?

Combining gasses for one. I’m sure with a little research I could find out how air formed on earth. God is not a necessary ingredient.

the fact tht there is the ability to feel or percieve anything physical goes a long way to prove the existence of a supreme force,

Again NO. The fact that I have a brain as do all complex life forms have, does not prove god.

because physicality itself has an origing and a source.

Maybe, but there are many explanations for the source, god is only one of them.

The greatest minds have not been able to probe the existence or non existence of god.

We two, with our pea brains are no match to the task.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Then why are they diffrent translation of the Qur'aan if it hasn't been altered ?

this is a classic misconception lol, there are translations of the quran for those who dont understand arabic, but there are no different altered versions of the quran. for example you will not find chapters thrown out and verses fabricated in...