Punishment for not memorising Quran: Death

[Amat Allah]

inaa lellah wa ina elyhi rajeoon...

 

[Umar001]

You know, I was thinking the same thing. How it is that school teachers do not need to beat children in order to descipline them? Simple! They use far more effective methods, such as after-school detention, missing playtime etc. The incompetence of some molvis in dealing with children just makes them rebel against authority and Islam. It's about time molvis are made to do a teacher training course before they are allowed near children.


Peace.

You been school recently? School does not = discipline.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

You been school recently? School does not = discipline.

Are you talking about public school? I agree. They're the most pathetic. However there are other schools that excel in teaching techniques, such as the Montessori schools and the new Charter schools. If you want discipline, there are a ton of five star military acedamies and, of course, the standard in leadership courses, the Outward Bound program.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Snowflake]

Wa Alaykum Salam,

But how they gonna safe guard children? They'll just take them out of the masjid altogether! I mean non Muslims even are argueing about whether they can slap their child.

It's upto those people in power in the masjid, because I'll tell you this, if I raised any problem, in some masjids, they'd label me this or that, like they do to many others, then go back to their own business.

The parents who do send their children in some cases dont even practice, they send them as a way of 'We went through it, you need to do it', the type to marry their daughters to a guy with a great job and big car who only prayes Jummuah rather than an average guy who is great in his deen. That's the problem, Muslims who claim it, but then do haram stuff like interest, not only on their FIRST house, but their SECOND! Talk about excessive.

That's the problem, these are similar Muslims who attend lectures once in a while, some who even cover. I mean its amazing.

asalam alaikum wr wb,

The muslim parliament of GB, which recognises the problem in moques/madrasas has urged the goverment to set up a national register coordinated and monitored by local authorities, to meet their legal obligations under the Children Act 1989.

I don't know if one has been set up yet, but it seems the progress is hindered by local authorities out of fear of being accused of cultural insensitivities.

It's obvious what the mosques' stance in this matter is. But I'm sure the prospect of being made accountable for violating child protection laws would change that. I still believe that a strong protest from the muslim public would force them to review the current culture of teaching places. It would also be worthwhile to back the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain in their efforts to raise awareness and bring about the much needed changes they have called for.

The NSPCC has welcomed debate on keeping children safe in faith-based schools. It's astonishing to think that children know that a teacher cannot hit them, yet think it is ok for a molvi to do that. Perhaps, the MPGB and the NSPCC, can start tackling this problem by including school teachers to make children aware of their rights. That would be a start.


wa alaikum asalam wr wb.

 

[Snowflake]

asalam alaikum wr wb,

You been school recently? School does not = discipline.

Not as we'd like. But compare that to the way children behave in mosques and the forms of discipline there. I see a big difference. :hmm:

Agreed. Teachers are the main reason a child does or doesn't learn. They used to hide bad teachers (and make money in the process) by declaring the students were "problemed" but cellphone cameras and other recording devices led to a completely different interpretation of the problem

Interesting! where was that? :?

I agree with 'Teachers are the main reason a child does or doesn't learn'.

 

[aadil77]

yh I remember at my madressa, my molvi once slapped a kid who kept messing around, the next week he got sacked

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Interesting! where was that? :?

In Massachusetts. My daughter began to complain that her teacher would go off (scream and swear at the kids), and yet, when I brought it to the attention of the school, they did nothing. So I gave her a mini-recorder and she taped the teacher swearing at the students and what have you. Then I called the school principle and taped the conversation, where this principle told me to f- myself, reminding me that I couldn't bring my daughter's tape into court. Well, I didn't. I delivered both my daughter's tape and the phone conversation of the principle to the superintendant of the school district and he was fired a month later.

Laws changed in Massachusetts in 2002 when the families of these so-called "problemed" children began to unite. Some of these schools were given special stipends for well over 70% of the student population... and no one had even thought to investigate the teachers. Now, the schools are judged by their pass/fail averages. The schools who do not produce decent pass results are punished - they lose their special ed funding.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[cute123]

Can you elaborate a bit, on what you meant?

BBC aims nothing but publizing such sought of news across the world. So people do get a worsened image of ISLAM. Its a position when people are dying hard to spread Islam, and one such news just spills off the work done or makes them far away - the thing that ISLAM is the best and the only religion - but we do not follow it to the best - its a difficult thing to explain - seems obviously hypocritic . what we see in newspapers and what actually happens its far different . anyways that goes off the topic.

 

[Snowflake]

In Massachusetts. My daughter began to complain that her teacher would go off (scream and swear at the kids), and yet, when I brought it to the attention of the school, they did nothing. So I gave her a mini-recorder and she taped the teacher swearing at the students and what have you. Then I called the school principle and taped the conversation, where this principle told me to f- myself, reminding me that I couldn't bring my daughter's tape into court. Well, I didn't. I delivered both my daughter's tape and the phone conversation of the principle to the superintendant of the school district and he was fired a month later.

mg: that's so extreme - teachers have changed a lot since my days in school

Laws changed in Massachusetts in 2002 when the families of these so-called "problemed" children began to unite.

That's what I'm trying to get at... a public outcry is hard to ignore - but the muslim public need help to raise their voices first. Let's see if that happens.


Some of these schools were given special stipends for well over 70% of the student population... and no one had even thought to investigate the teachers. Now, the schools are judged by their pass/fail averages. The schools who do not produce decent pass results are punished - they lose their special ed funding.

The Ninth Scribe

peace

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

It's a problem for Muslim schools because the areas are so rural, I suppose one would consider themselves lucky just to have a school, so maybe they don't lean on the teachers. But then again, maybe there should be more support for teachers too, like educational materials, guide-lines and weekly support groups. Then again, some of the areas are so remote, maybe that's expecting too much? But judging from the issue with this one teacher (who hang the boy upside down), I'd say the teacher was definately stressed beyond his limit and started taking it out on the kids.

Personally, I'm a big fan of home schooling

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Snowflake]

It's a problem for Muslim schools because the areas are so rural, I suppose one would consider themselves lucky just to have a school, so maybe they don't lean on the teachers. But then again, maybe there should be more support for teachers too, like educational materials, guide-lines and weekly support groups. Then again, some of the areas are so remote, maybe that's expecting too much? But judging from the issue with this one teacher (who hang the boy upside down), I'd say the teacher was definately stressed beyond his limit and started taking it out on the kids.

Personally, I'm a big fan of home schooling

The Ninth Scribe

Luckily we don't have that problem here. In fact there's almost a madrasa/mosque at every corner lol. But yeah guidelines would be a good idea
and monitoring also.

When it comes to madrasas the truth is that the kids who aren't disciplined at home can make an untrained teacher's (molvi) jobs hard. So molvis who are unable to deal with a kids being cheeky or disobedient lash out at them physically, sometimes to inexcusable length. Most parents accept that a molvi can smack their child as in a cane on the hand etc.. but slapping the face is not only forbidden in Islam but is abusing one's authority over kids.

Discipline begins at home and I've noticed that fewer and fewer parents are teaching their children basic manners these days. The abuse in mosques can only stop if both parties take their responsibilities seriously.


Peace.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Discipline begins at home and I've noticed that fewer and fewer parents are teaching their children basic manners these days. The abuse in mosques can only stop if both parties take their responsibilities seriously.

Peace.

Here in Massachusetts parents are actually forbidden to "discipline" their kids - yet they're always blamed for their child's horrible behavior. I got into trouble once for disciplining my kid. A neighbor called the D.S.S. on me and they informed me that it was against the law to physically discipline your child! The kids know this because the schools tell them all the time what numbers to call, you name it. So parents stop disciplining - and then get blamed for their kids lack of respect. My youngest actually said to my face: Yeah, and what are YOU going to do? - and I did slap his face for that. Then I handed him back the card he waved at me with the phone number on it, and told him that if he had no respect for me, he may as well live in foster care. That straightened that attitude out. I don't know if other areas of the world have this problem but I do know that even Princess Diana was called on the carpet on the issue of discipline. Some places take it to such an extreme that you can't even restrain a child who's having a tantrum. It's a really hard call.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[Snowflake]

Here in Massachusetts parents are actually forbidden to "discipline" their kids - yet they're always blamed for their child's horrible behavior. I got into trouble once for disciplining my kid. A neighbor called the D.S.S. on me and they informed me that it was against the law to physically discipline your child! The kids know this because the schools tell them all the time what numbers to call, you name it. So parents stop disciplining - and then get blamed for their kids lack of respect. My youngest actually said to my face: Yeah, and what are YOU going to do? - and I did slap his face for that. Then I handed him back the card he waved at me with the phone number on it, and told him that if he had no respect for me, he may as well live in foster care. That straightened that attitude out. I don't know if other areas of the world have this problem but I do know that even Princess Diana was called on the carpet on the issue of discipline. Some places take it to such an extreme that you can't even restrain a child who's having a tantrum. It's a really hard call.

The Ninth Scribe

It's the same in the UK. But I wasn't talking about physical discipline and there's no guarantee it works for every child. Even if it does work, it sometimes comes with a price if it become the norm; for instance, a child may obey parents out of fear of being smacked but at the same time will lose that loving feeling for them. That may have other consequences in later years.

I was actually referring to what parents teach children at home as in being polite to others, not backchatting elders, poking fun and that sort of stuff. Nowadays if a teacher makes a complaint about a pupil, its the poor teacher who faces torrents of abuse from his/her parents. What happened to telling your kids to show respect to their teachers since they are the ones helping them to achieve skills for a better future.


When I was young my parents would tell us, "Don't you dare give anyone a reason to come to our door to complain about your behavior!" Trust me it worked. Just an angry look would turn us to jelly. But nowadays kids hmm.. act like they're the parents.


Anyway, I'm going to contact the MPGB and see what's happening with the national register they were urging the gov. to set up. :rollseyes


Peace.

 

[north_malaysian]

Atif, seven, was hung upside down from a ceiling fan by Maulvi Ziauddin for not memorising his Koran lessons, his fellow students told the police.

Qisas! The authority should hang this Maulvi guy upside down from a ceiling fan too...

 

[Izyan]

Here in Massachusetts parents are actually forbidden to "discipline" their kids - yet they're always blamed for their child's horrible behavior. I got into trouble once for disciplining my kid. A neighbor called the D.S.S. on me and they informed me that it was against the law to physically discipline your child! The kids know this because the schools tell them all the time what numbers to call, you name it. So parents stop disciplining - and then get blamed for their kids lack of respect. My youngest actually said to my face: Yeah, and what are YOU going to do? - and I did slap his face for that. Then I handed him back the card he waved at me with the phone number on it, and told him that if he had no respect for me, he may as well live in foster care. That straightened that attitude out. I don't know if other areas of the world have this problem but I do know that even Princess Diana was called on the carpet on the issue of discipline. Some places take it to such an extreme that you can't even restrain a child who's having a tantrum. It's a really hard call.

The Ninth Scribe

Don't you think an adult open hand slapping a child is a bit much? A smack on the putt sure. A whacks on the hand with a ruler go for it. Making him stand in the corner holding 2 dictionaries, Great. Even the old washing of the mouth with soap is acceptable. Smacking a kid is going too far.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Asatghfirullah! What is wrong with this dude?


Hitting in the face is wrong anyway is it not?

 

[tetsujin]

The BBC left out the fact that the boy was blind. I wonder why they did that.

 

[Muezzin]

That's Repulsive! Reminded me of this quote!

"With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."

Nah, this teacher was scum to begin with. If he had even learned anything about Islam, he'd know such things are completely un-Islamic. Especially if it's true that the child was blind.

What a vile thing to do.

Also, generally, when will such teachers realise that hurting a kid if he or she forgets a verse is not good for that child's imaan in the long run? They'll simply associate the Quran with pain. Unless they want to raise masochists, I strongly advise any teachers against this utter stupidity.

 

[Snowflake]

asalam alaikum wr wb,

Anyway, I'm going to contact the MPGB and see what's happening with the national register they were urging the gov. to set up.

Well here's some good news. I did ring the MPGB and spoke to Dr. Ghayasuddin Siddiqui
concerning the abuse in mosques. I was delighted to hear his views and could not agree with him more. He pointed out that if nothing is done to stop the abuse, the mosques could end up facing the same problems as churches have in having to sell up to pay compensation to child abuse victims of the 90's. He stated that in the 90's, the Catholic community behaved just as the muslims are today by ignoring the problem.


He was right to worry that victims of child abuse may grow up and sue the mosques, which are run of charity funds. This could jeopardize the centuries old islamic tradition of learning institutions. Quite right too! Mr. Siddiqui was also astonished to hear from me, saying I was the first person ever to call them with interest in this issue. SubhanAllah this is quite sad and reflects on the muslims' lack of support of those who are trying to do their utmost to preserve Islamic establishments in non muslim countries.

The MPGB have various projects and I have promised to support them in high-lighting another taboo subject of sexual abuse within muslim families. I have already sent one document containing accounts from sisters on the internet for which Mr. Siddiqui was very grateful for. He will be raising this issue in this months conference in Wales on 18th June. May Allah reward those sisters who have come forward and helped me by sharing their experiences of this horrendous crime.

Brothers and sisters, I urge you to please, please, support the MPGB, in however small way you can. You can collect accounts of abuse in mosques/homes and forward them to the MPGB @ www.muslimparliament.org.uk

The full report on the issue of abuse in mosques can be read here.

http://www.muslimparliament.org.uk/Documentation/ChildProtectionReport.pdf


Please, please help if you can. We need to end this NOW!


wa alaikum asalam wr wb.

 

[Armand]

Let him roast in the fire of Hell.