Question about Muhammad

[westcoast]

I recently gained interest in Islam because many of my friends are Muslim, and I began reading the Qu'ran a while ago
I believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims alike all believe that the prophets that came before Jesus and Muhammad had a personal relationship with God, i.e they all received revelations and a message from God himself, meaning God spoke directly to Moses, and God spoke directly to Noah etc.
This being said, how is it that in Islam, Muhammad is the final (and consequently the most important) messenger/prophet God has had on earth, because he was chosen to deliver the final message/word to the people.. and surprisingly, breaking with tradition of the former prophets of God, Muhammad did not speak with God directly, did not receive his word from God or any revelation from him. Muhammad received the message from the Archangel Gabriel, and told the people it was the word of God.

i'm not interested in becoming muslim, i'm just reading up on it to gain knowledge and not be ignorant to the topic. But if i was interested, i would ask myself this, and question the validity of Muhammad's claim that he indeed was a prophet from God, for the simple fact that all other prophets (who are considered less important than Muhammad) actually spoke directly to God, whereas Muhammad spoke to an angel.
Do you follow how/why skepticism would arise regarding this topic?

 

[Umar001]

I recently gained interest in Islam because many of my friends are Muslim, and I began reading the Qu'ran a while ago
I believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims alike all believe that the prophets that came before Jesus and Muhammad had a personal relationship with God, i.e they all received revelations and a message from God himself, meaning God spoke directly to Moses, and God spoke directly to Noah etc.

What is the evidence for this belief of yours? Why do you believe that Jews Christians and Muslims believe that God spoke directly to Prophets?

Please cite the sources then maybe I can understand the foundations for that belief.

Eesa.

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your interest in Islam .

i would ask myself this, and question the validity of Muhammad's claim that he indeed was a prophet from God, for the simple fact that all other prophets (who are considered less important than Muhammad) actually spoke directly to God, whereas Muhammad spoke to an angel.

All the other Prophets other than Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not speak directly to God; this only occurred with some of them. Therefore no previous 'tradition' as such is being broken. Also, there was an occasion when God did actually speak directly to Muhammad (peace be upon him), which was on an occasion known as the Night Journey, although the Qur'an was not revealed like this.

In Islam, we respect all Prophets, and it is true that the final Prophet (peace be upon him) does have a very high status. The fact that the revelation given to Muhammad (peace be upon him) was gradual and hence unique with respect to the previous scriptures, and the superiority that the Qur'an has over the previous scriptures are indications towards the higher status of Muhammad (peace be upon him). There are many other aspects of Muhammad (peace be upon him) that illustrate how he has been honoured more than other Prophets. This concept has been discussed in greater depth elsewhere on the forum, such as here: http://www.islamicboard.com/458175-post5.html

did not receive his word from God or any revelation from him. Muhammad received the message from the Archangel Gabriel, and told the people it was the word of God.

There are different ways that God inspired Prophets, and one of these was with an intermediary, where God sent an angel to inspire the Prophet. So we see that the role of the angel is simply to convey the message; not make it up himself, and thus the Qur'an is still the Word of God. Inspiration also came to the Messenger (peace be upon him) without an angel, therefore whether or not an angel came to inspire him is irrelevant.

I hope this has helped to clarify the issue, and Allaah knows best.

Peace.

 

[westcoast]

What is the evidence for this belief of yours? Why do you believe that Jews Christians and Muslims believe that God spoke directly to Prophets?

Please cite the sources then maybe I can understand the foundations for that belief.

Eesa.

judeo-christian theology believes this, a quote from Exodus:
11:1 God said to Moses, 'There is one more plague that I will send..."
again
Exodus 33:11- The LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, as one man speaks to another.

and there are other passages which illustrate this, i'll quote more if u'd like
peace

 

[westcoast]

Greetings,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your interest in Islam .

All the other Prophets other than Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not speak directly to God; this only occurred with some of them. Therefore no previous 'tradition' as such is being broken. Also, there was an occasion when God did actually speak directly to Muhammad (peace be upon him), which was on an occasion known as the Night Journey, although the Qur'an was not revealed like this.

In Islam, we respect all Prophets, and it is true that the final Prophet (peace be upon him) does have a very high status. The fact that the revelation given to Muhammad (peace be upon him) was gradual and hence unique with respect to the previous scriptures, and the superiority that the Qur'an has over the previous scriptures are indications towards the higher status of Muhammad (peace be upon him). There are many other aspects of Muhammad (peace be upon him) that illustrate how he has been honoured more than other Prophets. This concept has been discussed in greater depth elsewhere on the forum, such as here: http://www.islamicboard.com/458175-post5.html

There are different ways that God inspired Prophets, and one of these was with an intermediary, where God sent an angel to inspire the Prophet. So we see that the role of the angel is simply to convey the message; not make it up himself, and thus the Qur'an is still the Word of God. Inspiration also came to the Messenger (peace be upon him) without an angel, therefore whether or not an angel came to inspire him is irrelevant.

I hope this has helped to clarify the issue, and Allaah knows best.

Peace.

which prophets prior to muhammad "didnt" speak to God directly?
secondly, doesnt direct dialogue indicate a more personal relationship, regardless of who's involved? the fact that Muslims say that Mohamad is so highly revered in Islam, that he is the one God chose to deliver his message through, yet most (if not all) of the revelation came via Gabriel the archangel.. it just doesnt sit well. strictly speaking as an observer i mean... God spoke directly to Moses, who isnt as "important" as Mohamad..
it doesnt make sense to me

 

[- Qatada -]

Hey westcoast.


Maybe you could post other quotes which support other prophets [besides Moses] talking directly to God?


We know that the Qur'an was revealed over a period of 23years in different situations throughout the lifetime of the Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him.)

We also know that when Moses spoke to God, he had to go to the valley of Tuwa when he spoke to God.


The Qur'an was revealed throughout different situations and due to that - it had to be revealed at different locations. Which means the Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) didn't go to the valley like Moses always did. Rather the message was given to him straightaway from the arch angel Gabriel.

Angels can never disobey God, because they are created that way. Therefore Angel Gabriel couldn't have lied, and if someone claims it was a devil, well thats just dumb because if we see the message revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) - they'll see that it was the same message as all the previous prophets:

Those who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists were not to be parted [from misbelief] until there came to them clear evidence -

A Messenger from Allah , reciting purified scriptures

Containing correct and straight laws from Allah.

Nor did those who were given the Scripture become divided until after there had come to them clear evidence.

And they were not commanded except to worship Allah , [being] sincere to Him in religion, inclining to truth, and to establish prayer and to give zakah. (charity) And that is the correct religion.


Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.

Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds - those are the best of creatures.

Their reward with Allah will be gardens of perpetual residence beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them and they with Him. That is for whoever has feared his Lord.


[Qur'an 98 Al-Bayyina [the Clear Proof]


​

We also know that Muhammad (peace be upon him) did talk to Allaah directly in the night of Israa' wal Mi'raaj [the Night of Descent] - when he went above the seven heavens and spoke directly to God. The command given by God was to establish the prayer, the same message given to Moses and his people. This showed the importance of prayer in the sight of God.


God conveyed His message to His prophets in a way which He knows best, and out of His eternal wisdom. Now that we know that this is the case - we turn to the actual message itself to see whether it is the truth or not.

The message which God revealed to His servant and Messenger is a healing for the believers, yet a source of regret for the oppressors. It is a book which confirms what came before it, a light and a guidance. Whoever follows it will be successful in this world and the next, and he who places it behind his back wanders in the darkness, lost, forever.

 

[Umar001]

judeo-christian theology believes this, a quote from Exodus:
11:1 God said to Moses, 'There is one more plague that I will send..."
again
Exodus 33:11- The LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, as one man speaks to another.

and there are other passages which illustrate this, i'll quote more if u'd like
peace

Keep them coming, my comments on the above shall proceed altogether with the rest.

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

which prophets prior to muhammad "didnt" speak to God directly?

I think we should ask which of them did, seeing as the Qur'an and hadeeth mention quite clearly which Prophets Allaah (swt) spoke to, namely, Moses and Muhammad, peace be upon them both.

secondly, doesnt direct dialogue indicate a more personal relationship, regardless of who's involved? the fact that Muslims say that Mohamad is so highly revered in Islam, that he is the one God chose to deliver his message through, yet most (if not all) of the revelation came via Gabriel the archangel.. it just doesnt sit well. strictly speaking as an observer i mean... God spoke directly to Moses, who isnt as "important" as Mohamad..
it doesnt make sense to me

Allaah (swt) went further than direct dialogue in the case of Muhammad (peace be upon him), because He actually caused him to ascend the seven heavens during the occasion known as the Night Journey, which is a great miracle that occured in his life. During this Night, he led the other Prophets in prayer in the mosque at Jerusalem and saw many things that others had not.

There are many other narrations from the Prophet (peace be upon him) which show how and why he is so highly honoured. I would recommend reading the link I gave you to gain a better understanding.

And as I mentioned above, just because the Angel Gabriel was involved in delivering the revelation, this does not lessen the importance of Muhammad (peace be upon him) in any way. This same angel has also been sent to other Prophets as you will note in the verse below.

Those Messengers! We preferred some to others; to some of them Allâh spoke (directly); others He raised to degrees (of honour); and to 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), We gave clear proofs and evidences, and supported him with Rûh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)]. If Allâh had willed, succeeding generations would not have fought against each other, after clear Verses of Allâh had come to them, but they differed - some of them believed and others disbelieved. If Allâh had willed, they would not have fought against one another, but Allâh does what He likes. [2:253]

The revelation of the Qur'an was different to that of the previous scriptures, which were all revealed at once. It was revealed gradually over a period of 23 years and this uniqueness is a sign of the honour given to Muhammad (peace be upon him). This, together with many other aspects, demonstrate how Muhammad (peace be upon him) has been preferred above others.

[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]Peace.

 

[westcoast]

here's another passagge.. i cant keep up with this thread and the ridiculous amounts of replies people are sending me in another thread

"33:23. And the word of the Lord came to Jeremias, saying:
Et factum est verbum Domini ad Hieremiam dicens

33:24. Hast thou not seen what this people hath spoken, saying: "


Now, lets say God ONLY spoke directly to 1 prophet, lets say that only prophet was Jeremiah for argument's sake, and to the rest he revealed his message through visions and what not. The final word according to Muslims is the Qu'ran, and Muhammad is the highly revered messenger of this word. Clearly, in terms of importance, this final message is vastly more important than other prophecies/messages of the other prophets. How is it that the utmost important word of GOD is to be dictated to Muhammad, if not completely, but the majority of it, through an Angel??
I'd be weary of anybody claiming they got the word of the living God through an Angel and not God himself.
peace

 

[Umar001]

Lol the word of God came to Jeremiah that means Jewmiah spoke face to face with God?

Erm, great work! lol.

 

[- Qatada -]

Okay, so from there we can say that you agree that it was Prophet Moses who spoke to God in the valley of Tuwa on Mount Sinai? Now if that's the case - then we agree that there were other prophets who are also loved and of a high class in the sight of God. So the example of Prophet Abraham, Jesus son of mary, Noah etc.

Now did these prophets have a similar encounter with God the same way Moses did? If they never, God did it out of His eternal wisdom.


I mentioned that the final Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) did talk to God directly in the journey of Israa' wal Mi'raaj [the Night of Descent.] This is recorded in Sahih Muslim and is authentic without a doubt, due to the sciences of hadith.

Now from this we see that when Allaah's Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him) talks to God, he speaks to Him directly, with no barrier in the way - no flame (Prophet Moses had this barrier), which shows that he is a great prophet of Allaah, yet so are the other prophets (peace be upon them all.)


This actually raises his rank, and again - Allaah did it out of His eternal wisdom that He would send an angel, the leader of the angels - the Ark Angel, who would convey the message without any error to God's final Messenger (peace be upon him.) If you are in doubt whether an angel does convey the full truth, then that means you doubt God since angels and prophets do not falter when conveying the message of God.



Regards.

 

[westcoast]

so now Muhammad received the revelation for the Qu'ran through God and not Gabriel?
and what "sciences of hadith" are these you speak of? as far as i know, hadiths are nothing more than hearsay, explain why they should be taken into consideration seeing as how they're just recollections of muhammad's life through his followers? they arent the word of God, as Muslims claim the Qu'ran is...
in fact, i am lost as to finding the verse or passage in the Qu'ran that specifically states that Muslims need to pray exactly 5 times a day, perhaps you can find it for me...

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Now, lets say God ONLY spoke directly to 1 prophet, lets say that only prophet was Jeremiah for argument's sake, and to the rest he revealed his message through visions and what not. The final word according to Muslims is the Qu'ran, and Muhammad is the highly revered messenger of this word. Clearly, in terms of importance, this final message is vastly more important than other prophecies/messages of the other prophets. How is it that the utmost important word of GOD is to be dictated to Muhammad, if not completely, but the majority of it, through an Angel??
I'd be weary of anybody claiming they got the word of the living God through an Angel and not God himself.

You are looking at one aspect of a big picture and ignoring all the rest. You ignore the gradual and unique revelation, the protection from corruption, the miraculous nature and many other aspects of the Qur'an that clearly illustrate its superiority, and dwelling on the fact that an angel was involved in its revelation. Though it should be noted that it wasn't any angel, it was, as you said, the Archangel Gabriel:

And truly, this (the Qur'ân) is a revelation from the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists),

Which the trustworthy Rûh [Jibrael (Gabriel)] has brought down;

Upon your heart (O Muhammad

) that you may be (one) of the warners... [26: 192-194]


You forget that Moses was given his scripture all at once, whereas Muhammad (peace be upon him) was given his scripture over 23 years. Are you saying that Muhammad (peace be upon him) should have spoken to God thousands of times over 23 years to receive the whole of the Qur'an? Already we can see that the way that Allaah has chosen was the most befitting, and it is pointless to argue otherwise. Whichever way that Allaah has preferred His prophets above others, we simply accept them and do not question why, in recognition of our limited capacity to understand.

in fact, i am lost as to finding the verse or passage in the Qu'ran that specifically states that Muslims need to pray exactly 5 times a day, perhaps you can find it for me...

Sure, there is an in-depth article on it here:

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=415&section=indepth&subsection=Glorious Quran

[eace.

 

[westcoast]

Greetings,

You are looking at one aspect of a big picture and ignoring all the rest. You ignore the gradual and unique revelation, the protection from corruption, the miraculous nature and many other aspects of the Qur'an that clearly illustrate its superiority, and dwelling on the fact that an angel was involved in its revelation. Though it should be noted that it wasn't any angel, it was, as you said, the Archangel Gabriel:

And truly, this (the Qur'ân) is a revelation from the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists),

Which the trustworthy Rûh [Jibrael (Gabriel)] has brought down;

Upon your heart (O Muhammad

) that you may be (one) of the warners... [26: 192-194]


You forget that Moses was given his scripture all at once, whereas Muhammad (peace be upon him) was given his scripture over 23 years. Are you saying that Muhammad (peace be upon him) should have spoken to God thousands of times over 23 years to receive the whole of the Qur'an? Already we can see that the way that Allaah has chosen was the most befitting, and it is pointless to argue otherwise. Whichever way that Allaah has preferred His prophets above others, we simply accept them and do not question why, in recognition of our limited capacity to understand.

Sure, there is an in-depth article on it here:

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=415&section=indepth&subsection=Glorious Quran

[eace.

Muhamad thanks for ur reply. ps: why do i keep getting private messages from you?
Moving on;
I read that article, thanks for the link.. however, i've seen that the Qu'ran only mentions 3 prayers by name [Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer)24:58, Salat Al-Esha (Night Prayer)24:58,Al-Salat Al-Wusta (The Middle Prayer) 2:238.]
It makes sense to have 3, one in the morning, one in midday and one at night.
These are the only 3 prayers found in the Qu'ran given in detail and by name. The Qu'ran is said to be complete and missing nothing
"when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." surah 6:114
Why then, are there 5 prayers now rather than the 3 explicitly detailed in the Qu'ran?
The only recollection of this "5" a day i found is in the hadith, the account of muhamad going to the heaven where God tells him that his people must pray 50 times a day, or once every 28 minutes. It is then that muhammad negotiates with God (??) into reducing the number from 50 to 5. This is very specific, but in the Hadith, NOT the Qu'ran.

 

[NoName55]

problem is some people never read the reply given

Fajr Salat is mentioned in Surah Ta-Ha, Dahr, Hud, Qaf, Rum and Nur.
Zuhr Salat is mentioned in Surah Dahr, Qaf, Ta-Ha, Bani Israel or Isra and Rum.
Asr Salat is mentioned in Surah Baqaraah, Dahr, Hud, Ta-Ha, Qaf and Rum.
MaghribSalat is mentioned in Surah Hud, Ta-Ha, Rum, and Qaf.
Isha Salat is mentioned in Surah Muzzammil, Tur, Dahr, Ta-Ha, Hud, Rum, Qaf, and Nur.
Beside the above all the Salats have been implicitly mentioned in Surah Al-Baqaraah, Isra, Ta-ha.

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=415&section=indepth&subsection=Glorious Quran

 

[- Qatada -]

So true ^ seems like westcoast wants to take a pick and mix from our posts, and reject the rest. Even though it answers their question.

 

[Malaikah]

Westcoast,

I don't understand why you think it makes such a huge difference that the Quran was taught to Muhammad pbuh through an angel rather than by God himself?

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

ps: why do i keep getting private messages from you?

It's probably when your posts are either edited or deleted.

I read that article, thanks for the link.. however, i've seen that the Qu'ran only mentions 3 prayers by name [Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer)24:58, Salat Al-Esha (Night Prayer)24:58,Al-Salat Al-Wusta (The Middle Prayer) 2:238.]
It makes sense to have 3, one in the morning, one in midday and one at night.

It seems that you didn't read the article properly, because it explains that there are various terms that are used to mention the different prayers. Even Salatul Wustaa is not the actual name of the middle prayer - the actual name is the 'Asr prayer.

The Qu'ran is said to be complete and missing nothing
"when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." surah 6:114
Why then, are there 5 prayers now rather than the 3 explicitly detailed in the Qu'ran?
The only recollection of this "5" a day i found is in the hadith, the account of muhamad going to the heaven where God tells him that his people must pray 50 times a day, or once every 28 minutes. It is then that muhammad negotiates with God (??) into reducing the number from 50 to 5. This is very specific, but in the Hadith, NOT the Qu'ran.

The reason for your misunderstanding is because you are assuming that the Qur'an is the only source of Islam, however, the hadeeth are also a source and they help to explain the Qur'an. This is why something does not have to be mentioned by name, or all the rulings pertaining to a matter may not be mentioned, as the hadeeth provide the necessary explanation and provide further information to enhance our understanding of the Qur'an. The Qur'an itself mentions the role of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in explaining the Qur'an. This issue has been discussed in-depth in the following threads should you wish to learn more:

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-divisions/1063-general-article-status-sunnah-islam.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-sources/22043-legal-status-sunnah-islam.html

Thank you for your questions.

 

[westcoast]

Greetings,

It's probably when your posts are either edited or deleted.

It seems that you didn't read the article properly, because it explains that there are various terms that are used to mention the different prayers. Even Salatul Wustaa is not the actual name of the middle prayer - the actual name is the 'Asr prayer.

The reason for your misunderstanding is because you are assuming that the Qur'an is the only source of Islam, however, the hadeeth are also a source and they help to explain the Qur'an. This is why something does not have to be mentioned by name, or all the rulings pertaining to a matter may not be mentioned, as the hadeeth provide the necessary explanation and provide further information to enhance our understanding of the Qur'an. The Qur'an itself mentions the role of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in explaining the Qur'an. This issue has been discussed in-depth in the following threads should you wish to learn more:

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-divisions/1063-general-article-status-sunnah-islam.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-sources/22043-legal-status-sunnah-islam.html

Thank you for your questions.

The Qu'ran is complete, perfect, without flaw and easy to understand (all claims made regarding the Qu'ran) yet the Hadiths, books recollecting the life of Muhammad are "necessary" for one to understand it?
Thanks.

 

[YusufNoor]

The Qu'ran is complete, perfect, without flaw and easy to understand (all claims made regarding the Qu'ran) yet the Hadiths, books recollecting the life of Muhammad are "necessary" for one to understand it?
Thanks.

Greetings of Peace West Coast!

the Seerah: life of the Prophet(pbuh) is absolutely neccessary to understand the Qur'an and Islam. Brother Fi-Si has a great link to one study group, maybe, Insha' Allah, he'll post it, if not i will, Insha' Allah.

as you wrote in another post:

The Qu'ran is said to be complete and missing nothing
"when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." surah 6:114

it was the Prophet of Allah(pbuh) who did the explaining! reading an English Translation of the Qur'an w/o said "explanations" can be quite bewildering, and almost nonsensical. and Seerah gives a much better scope of the "how and why's" of some Ayat/Surah.

it was the Rasulullah(pbuh) who put revelation into effect. from his(pbuh) example as well as of the Companions of the Prophet(ra), is the way for us to learn and understand our din.

regarding an earlier post, yes, a course in Arabic is extremely useful and the full granduer and scope of the Qur'an becomes alot more apparent in it's original tongue. being a relatively new Muslim, i began a study group in Arabic a few weeks ago.

in case some Brothers and Sister tend to forget, the Prophet of Allah(pbuh) came to perfect good manners and to enjoin good and forbid evil. so if we sometimes seem to be a tad[or more] on the rude side of the things, please forgive us. we mean well and seem to get frustrated easily[somehow fogetting Sabr!].

what part of the west coast do you reside in?

May you gain an understanding of Islam that is beneficial and fruitful!



Yusuf