Question for Religious People Re: this world

[snakelegs]

Originally Posted by aamirsaab:

My turn.
Heaven = awesome place
This earth / life = crap hole
Hell = hole.

i have kidnapped this from the thread on paradise.
i know this type of thinking is not uncommon among religious people. i find it incomprehensible and troubling.
how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?
god made this earth and gave you and me life, how can you disdain it? he made this planet and filled it full of beauty and things that are a source of constant wonder and awe.
you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for.

 

[snakelegs]

this is a record for post approval speed!
thanks, mod!

 

[jzcasejz]

Originally Posted by aamirsaab:



i have kidnapped this from the thread on paradise.
i know this type of thinking is not uncommon among religious people. i find it incomprehensible and troubling.
how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?
god made this earth and gave you and me life, how can you disdain it? he made this planet and filled it full of beauty and things that are a source of constant wonder and awe.
you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for.

^ I wouldn't count myself as "religious", but I'll answer anyways. Yes, I completely agree with what you're saying.

how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?

Though it'll be better to hear it from the main man aamir himself, I think it is a crap hole in the sense that it's not worth seeking/chasing the pleasures of this world while jeopardising your chances in the afterlife. So yeah, it is full of wonder and awe and is not crap in terms of that - rather it is something amazing, but to seek this world over the afterlife is perfect a reason to describe this world as a crap hole. Maybe I'm not making sense here... but... I don't know lol. :X

 

[snakelegs]

^ I wouldn't count myself as "religious", but I'll answer anyways. Yes, I completely agree with what you're saying.



Though it'll be better to hear it from the main man aamir himself, I think it is a crap hole in the sense that it's not worth seeking/chasing the pleasures of this world while jeopardising your chances in the afterlife. So yeah, it is full of wonder and awe and is not crap in terms of that - rather it is something amazing, but to seek this world over the afterlife is perfect a reason to describe this world as a crap hole. Maybe I'm not making sense here... but... I don't know lol. :X

it was here
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/54890-right-ho-paradise-now-what.html#post888296
i snatched that part from his post because i wanted to hear what people think about this - (he was the excuse )
i don't mean to single him out - it is a sentiment often stated by believing muslims and christians.
i realize eternity weighs much heavier and you do not want to put your chances in the afterlife by "seeking the pleasures of this world". this phrase is usually said about things that are considered sins.
again, i see no reason that the importance of the afterlife should lead to a disdain of this world.
but there are pleasures of this world - that have nothing to do with man or man made things.... shouldn't we be thankful for these and appreciate them fully as the creation? it was actually pondering nature that was one of the main things that led me to believe in god. it is simply awesome...
this world and our life are gifts.

 

[Intisar]

I remember a quote, I think it was Ibn-Tammiyah (ra) who said it and Allaah forgive me If I'm wrong, that the world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the unbeliever.

Yes, I understand your viewpoint seeing as how we constantly praise Allaah Ta'ala for what he's given us, but at the same time we should not love this world because it is reiterated in many hadiths and ayats that it's but a ''passing'' (phase). When Allaah brings us all to account, it will feel like our whole lives were but a day or two. We should not cherish this world, we should be glad to be living in it because it gives us more chances at being dutiful to Allaah and giving ibadah (worship), but it's not something that we should love. We should love Allaah, and through loving Allaah, we will gain paradise.

 

[syilla]

hello....

maybe you'll need abit more of understanding on how we think...

In islam it is compulsory for us to be grateful with this world...but we also have to try to strive hard for jannah.

It has been reported that the Prophet (salAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said, “The one who wakes up in the morning and complains about the scarcity of livelihood,it is as though he is complaining against his Lord. The one who wakes up and is sad over the affairs of the dunya, it is as though he has woken up angry with Allah. And the one who humbles himself in front of a rich man because of his wealth will have lost two-thirds of his Religion.”


And striving hard doesn't mean just praying...

In islam, to strive hard for jannah is doing alot of ibadah which encompass in everything we do...work, eat, drink and etc with a condition only for the sake of Allah subhanahuwata'ala. It is the way of life....

We believe this dunya is temporary and deceiving.

Know that the life of this world is only play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children… the life of this world is only a deceiving enjoyment. (Al-Hadid 57:20)

Verily, the Promise of Allâh is true, let not then this (worldly) present life deceive you, nor let the chief deceiver (Satan) deceive you about Allâh. (Luqman 31:33)

The evil in focussing too much of this world is because of greed, arrogance and envy. The love of money, lust and wealth, what is it for? can we bring it to the grave?

So dunya isn't our focus. shouldn't be. Dunya is a temporary place where we should be trying our best to collect as much as 'amal'/deeds, so that Allah subhanahuwata'ala will have mercy and reward us in the hereafter.

And we are not trying hard enuff...

So in islam, dunya is only for 'work', 'work', 'work'....according to islam. Well ocassionally of course we can relax and enjoy the day...but i think we have enjoyed more than 'work' more.

A Poet said:
O he who is busy with his dunya!
Whom illusions of a long lifetime have deluded
Was he not in a state of heedlessness
Until his appointed time drew near?
Verily death arrives suddenly
And the Grave is the collection-box of actions
Be patient over the dunya and its hardships
No death is there except at one’s appointed time

 

[jzcasejz]

I remember a quote, I think it was Ibn-Tammiyah (ra) who said it and Allaah forgive me If I'm wrong, that the world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the unbeliever.

If I remember correctly, that was a Hadeeth of the Prophet (SAW).

"The world is a prison for the believers and a paradise for the disbelievers." [Muslim]

 

[Intisar]

If I remember correctly, that was a Hadeeth of the Prophet (SAW).

"The world is a prison for the believers and a paradise for the disbelievers." [Muslim]

Baraka Allaahu feek, akhi.

 

[snakelegs]

hello....

maybe you'll need abit more of understanding on how we think...

In islam it is compulsory for us to be grateful with this world...but we also have to try to strive hard for jannah.

It has been reported that the Prophet (salAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said, “The one who wakes up in the morning and complains about the scarcity of livelihood,it is as though he is complaining against his Lord. The one who wakes up and is sad over the affairs of the dunya, it is as though he has woken up angry with Allah. And the one who humbles himself in front of a rich man because of his wealth will have lost two-thirds of his Religion.”


And striving hard doesn't mean just praying...

In islam, to strive hard for jannah is doing alot of ibadah which encompass in everything we do...work, eat, drink and etc with a condition only for the sake of Allah subhanahuwata'ala. It is the way of life....

We believe this dunya is temporary and deceiving.

Know that the life of this world is only play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children… the life of this world is only a deceiving enjoyment. (Al-Hadid 57:20)

Verily, the Promise of Allâh is true, let not then this (worldly) present life deceive you, nor let the chief deceiver (Satan) deceive you about Allâh. (Luqman 31:33)

The evil in focussing too much of this world is because of greed, arrogance and envy. The love of money, lust and wealth, what is it for? can we bring it to the grave?

So dunya isn't our focus. shouldn't be. Dunya is a temporary place where we should be trying our best to collect as much as 'amal'/deeds, so that Allah subhanahuwata'ala will have mercy and reward us in the hereafter.

And we are not trying hard enuff...

So in islam, dunya is only for 'work', 'work', 'work'....according to islam. Well ocassionally of course we can relax and enjoy the day...but i think we have enjoyed more than 'work' more.

A Poet said:
O he who is busy with his dunya!
Whom illusions of a long lifetime have deluded
Was he not in a state of heedlessness
Until his appointed time drew near?
Verily death arrives suddenly
And the Grave is the collection-box of actions
Be patient over the dunya and its hardships
No death is there except at one’s appointed time

i understand what you have said. but when i speak of the pleasures of this world i do not mean crap like wealth and material things. i mean things like the functioning of cells, habitat niches, the life of a bug, the beauty of the play of light and shadow on the desert hills.
you are conscious that this world is not all there is and you must prepare for the next world, but is it wrong to love the beauty that surrounds us, that has been made by god?
i don't think one should disdain this world - it is so much more than all the crazyiness that goes on, that people do.
my understanding of islam is that you are not supposed to get attached to worldly, material things, because they are not important. but this doesn't mean that you should view the world or life as something to "get through".
i guess what i am saying is why does this world and the after life have to be placed at polar opposites?
i don't think islam takes this position either, because it does concern itself with the environment. but many muslims and christians (actually, i think even some hindus) seem to regard this world as insignificant. it may be fleeting, but i think it should be appreciated and i often get the feeling that it is not - that the attitude expressed so succinctly by aamirsaab is not uncommon.
anyway, i mostly wanted your opinions so enough of me.

 

[syilla]

material things, because they are not important. but this doesn't mean that you should view the world or life as something to "get through".

you're right... the life in this world is important. because the life of this world will have an effect in the hereafter.

For example, if ones love ones wife/husband within the islamic rules, did you know that they can be together until the hereafter?

We appreciate the things that Allah subhanahuwata'ala give, and we should be. Because thats the only way we can be humble.

If ibadah is...

"The "ibadah" is a collective noun that includes every thing that Allah (S.W.T.) loves and accepts from sayings and the physical acts; the hidden (acts by heart) and the openly (acts by limbs). The acts by limbs include the prayer, zakah, fasting, hajj, straight talk, loyalty (returning someone’s possessions to them), kindness with parents, having good accord with relatives, keeping promises and treaties, enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil, fighting against the kuffar and the hypocrites, kindness with the neighbor, with the orphan, with the poor, with the wayfarer, with the animals, supplication, remembering Allah, reciting Qur’an, and all things of this nature are from "ibadah."

The acts by heart include the love for Allah and His messenger, fear of Allah, asking Him for forgiveness, Having sincerity to Him alone in deen, being patient, thanking for His blessings, accepting His judgment, depending on Him, hoping for His mercy, fear from His punishment, and all things of this nature are from of ibadah worship." All this is supported by an abundant number of evidences from the book of Allah (S.W.T.) and the sunnah of His messenger (S.A.W.).

The comprehensiveness of "ibadah" for all aspects of this life:

From the etiquette of eating, drinking, going to the bathroom, to building the individual as well as the society, satisfying the people’s needs that are related to the issues of the state and the politics of ruling and governing, the system of economy, the affairs of dealings and the judicial system, and the foundations of international relations in peace and in war. All this is supported by many Qur’anic verses and sayings of the prophet (S.A.W.).

then ones should appreciate everything Allah's subhanahuwata'ala created.

{And seek with that which Allah has given you the realm of the hereafter and do not neglect your portion in this life. And be gracious as Allah has been gracious to you. And do not seek corruption in the land for Allah does not love the corrupters.} Al-Qasas:77

But most probably your definition of dunya and islam...is different. lol...

In islam...dunya is about the lust, desire and nafs.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

^ I wouldn't count myself as "religious", but I'll answer anyways.

Trust me, if you believe in an afterlife, you're religious.

Fair enough, though - good luck with it.

Peace

 

[YusufNoor]

Originally Posted by aamirsaab:



i have kidnapped this from the thread on paradise.
i know this type of thinking is not uncommon among religious people. i find it incomprehensible and troubling.
how can you possibly believe this earth/life = crap hole?
god made this earth and gave you and me life, how can you disdain it? he made this planet and filled it full of beauty and things that are a source of constant wonder and awe.
you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for.

I AGREE with what you are saying, but don't agree with "earth/life = craphole?" not that it's your phrase. to a Muslim the "dunya" as "wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles" pales in comparison to Jannah. FOREVER compared to this life, or visa versa, not in the same ballpark! but erm, dunya is a better term than...crap!


anyway, seeing how you said: "you may think it is but a passing shadow compared to eternity but that does not mean that it is not wonderful and beautiful and full of miracles and much to be thankful for", i give you Mufti Ismail Menk; listen to his Ramadhan Tafseer:

http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Index.html

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I agree. I think 'dunya' is a beautiful word. Yes, the world we find ourselves in is a mystifying and sometimes upsetting place, but pinning your hopes on a hereafter for which there really is no evidence is no solution.

Peace

 

[syilla]

Greetings,

I agree. I think 'dunya' is a beautiful word. Yes, the world we find ourselves in is a mystifying and sometimes upsetting place, but pinning your hopes on a hereafter for which there really is no evidence is no solution.

Peace

why do you say that is not a solution?

did you know, we are trying to save this world and environment too? And did you know that in islam we believe everybody is compulsory to do that by giving da'wah, nasehah and take some actions. And did you know it will be rewarded to in the hereafter according to islam.

“Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.” (An-Nahl: 125)

“Thus it is due to mercy from Allah that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair.” (Al `Imran: 159)

"Thus we have appointed you a middle community in order that you may be witnesses towards humankind and that the Messenger may be a witness towards you… (Al-Baqarah:143)

"And the believers should not all go out to fight. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth, that they (who are left behind) may gain sound knowledge in religion, and that they may warn their folk when they return to them, so that they may beware." (At-Tawbah 9:122)


On the authority of Abu Sa'id al-Khudri, radiyallahu 'anhu, who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, say:

"When any one of you sees anything that is disapproved (of by Allah), let him change it with his hand. If he is not able to do so, then let him change it with his tongue. And if he is not able to do so, then let him change it with his heart, though that is the weakest (kind of) faith."

[Muslim ]

We will not loose anything even if we believe in the hereafter.

and

did you know that in islam we are not suppose to waste water even in our wudhu'

Allah declares: “Verily Allah does not love the wasters.” On one occasion the Prophet (Pbuh) asked a person who was performing wudhu: “Why are you wasting water?” The person enquired: “Is there israaf even in wudhu?” The Prophet (Pbuh) replied: “Yes indeed, (do not waste) even if you are at the bank of a river.”

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

but...

(Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it and man assumed it Lo! he is a tyrant and fool.) (Al-Ahzab 33: 72)

 

[glo]

Great thread, snakelegs! I have been reading it with great interest.

I believe in the afterlife too - but I find myself strangely unable to focus on the thereafter too much (some perhaps might say not enough!)

Although paradise is also pretty well described in the Bible, there seems to be too much to do whilst I breath, walk and talk, to really focus on that ...

Jesus' instructions to us seem pretty 'earth-bound': to love our neighbour, to care for the needy etc.

For me, following God is a pleasure on its own. Following Jesus' example seems thoroughly sensible to me (I am sure some would disagree).
Should at the point of my death the lights just go out and nothing else (as my husband tends to believe), then I would not feel that my life has been in vain ... it was still a good and worthy life to live!

There is so much to be glad about in life!
My atheist husband agrees (as, it appears, does czgibson) - so much wonder to look upon with awe and joy! You don't have to believe in God to have a sense of awe.

Something that has always worried me personally, has been Christian voices who would ignore environmental concerns on the basis that 'God promised to provide for us, and if our environment is dying, then it is a sign of the end times' ... :scared: (Luckily that kind of attitude seems to be lessening ...)
Surely, especially if you believe that this world is divinely created, you'd do your utmost to care for it and every life on it!!!

peace

 

[aamirsaab]

Woah jeez. I didin't know it would cause THAT much controversy!

Ok, here is what I meant. Earth being a crap hole was in relation to Heaven. Indeed there is much beauty in this Earth, which I am greatful for, mostly because a lot of it hasn't been tainted by mankind. However, my comment meant that the evil in this world is what seperates it from Heaven. Basically, I was attempting to emphasise the difference between Heaven and Earth by downplaying Earth.

Once again, there is a lot of beauty in this Earth - for some however, it is not enough. In contrast, Heaven is a place where it is infinite in beauty. Pure bliss for mankind.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

why do you say that is not a solution?

Because pinning your hopes on something for which there's no evidence is not generally a good idea.

And, while I wasn't really sure what relevance it had to the topic at hand, yes, I did know those things you mentioned.

Peace

 

[snakelegs]

you're right... the life in this world is important. because the life of this world will have an effect in the hereafter.

For example, if ones love ones wife/husband within the islamic rules, did you know that they can be together until the hereafter?

We appreciate the things that Allah subhanahuwata'ala give, and we should be. Because thats the only way we can be humble.

If ibadah is...



then ones should appreciate everything Allah's subhanahuwata'ala created.

{And seek with that which Allah has given you the realm of the hereafter and do not neglect your portion in this life. And be gracious as Allah has been gracious to you. And do not seek corruption in the land for Allah does not love the corrupters.} Al-Qasas:77

But most probably your definition of dunya and islam...is different. lol...

In islam...dunya is about the lust, desire and nafs.

i think you are right. we all see the world through many filters - so i am seeing this from my own understanding and it is not what it seems to me to be.
i am still thinking about this. yes, my definition of dunya is different.
although i believe in god, i do not believe in an afterlife, which probably also makes it harder for me to understand.
your posts are helpful.

 

[snakelegs]

Woah jeez. I didin't know it would cause THAT much controversy!

Ok, here is what I meant. Earth being a crap hole was in relation to Heaven. Indeed there is much beauty in this Earth, which I am greatful for, mostly because a lot of it hasn't been tainted by mankind. However, my comment meant that the evil in this world is what seperates it from Heaven. Basically, I was attempting to emphasise the difference between Heaven and Earth by downplaying Earth.

Once again, there is a lot of beauty in this Earth - for some however, it is not enough. In contrast, Heaven is a place where it is infinite in beauty. Pure bliss for mankind.

fair enough.
my apologies to you - it wasn't really your post, but it touched on something that i have wondered about for a long time, so it was quite handy. you have been exploited!

 

[snakelegs]

Something that has always worried me personally, has been Christian voices who would ignore environmental concerns on the basis that 'God promised to provide for us, and if our environment is dying, then it is a sign of the end times' ... :scared: (Luckily that kind of attitude seems to be lessening ...)
Surely, especially if you believe that this world is divinely created, you'd do your utmost to care for it and every life on it!!!

peace

yes - this is a concern as this type of thinking has gained power in our gov't. we once had a secretary of the interior who said that we didn't need to worry about our forests because jesus was coming back soon.
i don't think islam has this problem, i think it's just a christian problem and i don't think (?) most christians have this view.