Question of the month..

[جوري]

Is it possible for a mother to have absolutely no genetic link to her children without being a surrogate? why or why not?

 

[جوري]

any takers?

 

[Woodrow]

From a biological view, no.

Without a genetic link, no matter how the pregnancy occurred, there would be no relationship except possibly an emotional one.

Quite interesting I just recalled that in some instances of the plant and animal kingdom, there are cases of pathogenesis, but in each case the off spring only have a genetic link with the mother.

 

[Malaikah]

Impossible! The offspring inherit half their DNA from mum and half from dad.

Unless you are going suggest some pathological mechanism by this the child accidentally gets all the DNA from the father and the mothers DNA is some how lost? But even then the child must still have the mothers mitochondria which contains DNA of its own.

 

[جوري]

well what if I told you it is possible and there are about seventy cases in the world.. two in the united stated reported in the 2002 NEJM...

challenges our understanding of DNA and genetics ..

There is a name for this condition.. any takers?

 

[جوري]

it is called Chimerism -- I hope you enjoy this video

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmYYJjcImpE&feature=PlayList&p=F254737A50E88F8A&index=2[/MEDIA]





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[Malaikah]

Okay... I don't understand how this condition relates to the parts not being genetically related to the mother??

My understanding is that it is not that the children are not genetically related to the mother but that it appears that way to the person doing the test.

For example, mother has A and B gene set and her children inherit only the A gene set. When they do a test to compare her DNA to her kids, they take cell samples that only contain the B gene subset, therefore it appears that the mother has no genetic link to her children.

Correct??

Also it doesn't seem correct to say that the mother has no genetic link, because there is a genetic link, but the link is not as close as one would expect it to be for mother and child.

 

[جوري]

prior you had stated that children inherit 50% of their genes from their mom and 50% from their dad, which is correct, however in Chimeras there are two sets of DNA, and as you have seen in the lady above some of her organs are composed of genes from different sets, hence for instance if you did genetic testing on her thyroid, it wouldn't show the same DNA as in her uterus, her own hair strands carried different genetic material from one to the next as if from two different people, carry that thought through to the genes passed to her children and it will make perfect sense.. if she herself in her own body had this sort of mosaicism it is not so inconceivable that her children through conventional genetic blood testing didn't show her to be the biological mother.. we usually do genetic testing by taking blood samples, not thyroid or uterus samples, as complicated as that itself is, there is no guarantee that 89% of her body is composed of one subset while the other 11% of another, so you'd have to test multiple organs.. in her case, she had gone for prior surgery and they were able to retrieve tissue samples from the pathologist... but imagine the ramifications, which in fact was the case for another woman, when they do genetic conventional genetic blood testing and find no relations between mother and child..

Hope the above made it easier insha'Allah

 

[Malaikah]

Yeh, but my point is that just because they don't find the any relationship between mother and child, doesn't mean the relationship doesn't exist, right??

 

[جوري]

Indeed, and that is the point of this whole ordeal.. how reliable is genetic testing?.. of course this is a very rare condition, nonetheless can have very detrimental ramifications.

These two women above are the biological mothers to their children, however genetic testing didn't prove any relationship between them.

 

[Yanal]

What is the topic, after the original one has been resolved by grandpa Woodrow?

 

[Zarmina]

These two women above are the biological mothers to their children, however genetic testing didn't prove any relationship between them.

Good point. Genetic testing is still in its infant stages, it still needs much more development before we can view it as absolute.

 

[جوري]

Nothing in science is ever really absolute.. room for doubt is very healthy...

 

[Woodrow]

Indeed, and that is the point of this whole ordeal.. how reliable is genetic testing?.. of course this is a very rare condition, nonetheless can have very detrimental ramifications.

These two women above are the biological mothers to their children, however genetic testing didn't prove any relationship between them.

Very good. I had forgotten about what would happen in testing if the mother was chimera. Here the key wording seems to be in the words "Genetic Testing"/

Yes, the offspring still have a genetic relationship with the mother, but it does not necessarily mean genetic test can always detect it.

Genetic Testing may not be as reliable as many people believe it to be.

 

[alcurad]

thnx for sharing, interesting stuff.

 

[syilla]

:salamext:

can breast feeding make them genetically related... As you all know that in islam if one baby drink a womans milk (with sterms and conditions of course)..then the baby could not marry the woman's child? (and of course when the baby has turned adulthood huhu)

 

[Ramadhan]

:salamext:

can breast feeding make them genetically related... As you all know that in islam if one baby drink a womans milk (with sterms and conditions of course)..then the baby could not marry the woman's child? (and of course when the baby has turned adulthood huhu)

very good question!
I've been pondering this same thing for long. There must be very good reason and great wisdom behind the ruling.
I've also been speculating that suckling from the same woman would make two unrelated children somehow become related in some ways, possibly genetically.

 

[tango92]

^ definitely doesnt genetically relate them - their is the possibility that a mother transfers antibodies to the baby, which conditions the babies immune system to accepting the mothers dna.

i think its more because of the bond created between mother and child at this point.

 

[جوري]

^^ true.. your genes are a done deal when you are born.. the only way to alter them is through some retroviruses (AIDS) ..
breast milk confers immunity (IgA) type which is important for GI tract and respiratory (any sort of salivary tract) really...

I am not sure why Islamically they'd be considered siblings but I accept it as a divine law..

:wa:

 

[Woodrow]

^^ true.. your genes are a done deal when you are born.. the only way to alter them is through some retroviruses (AIDS) ..
breast milk confers immunity (IgA) type which is important for GI tract and respiratory (any sort of salivary tract) really...

I am not sure why Islamically they'd be considered siblings but I accept it as a divine law..

:wa:

:wa:

I believe their would be a very strong emotional bond. Quite possible this bond would be stronger than any physical(genetic) bond. For all intent from an emotional and intellectual perspective they would be as much siblings as if there was a genetic connection, probably even stronger, than a genetic only bond.