Question Re: Islam & Christianity

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What do me make of the fact that the world we live in is only fruitful because it's given basic scientific constitution is of a very special, very finely-tuned character. You can shrug your shoulders and say, 'Well, that's just the way it happens to be. We're here because we're here and that's it'. That doesn't seem to me to be a very rational approach to the issue. Imagine the following story. You are about to be executed. Your eyes are bandaged and you are tied to the stake. Twelve highly-trained sharp shooters have their rifles levelled at your heart. They pull the trigger, the shots ring out - you've survived! What do you do? Do you shrug your shoulders and say, 'Well, that's the way it is. No need to seek and explanation of this. That's just the way it is'. That's surely not a rational response to what's going on. I think that there are only two rational explanations of that amazing incident. One is this. Many, many, many executions are taking place today and just by luck you happen to be the one in which they all miss. That's the rational explanation. The other explanation, is, of course, that the sharp shooters are on your side and they missed by choice. In other words there was a purpose at work of which you were unaware.

I could probably think of a few more rational responses, but they are the two main ones people adopt.

The question is how do you distinguish one from the other?

You see how that parable translates into thinking about a finely-tuned and fruitful universe. One possibility is that maybe there are lots and lots of different universes, all with different given physical laws and circumstances. If there were lots and lots of them (and there would really have to be rather a lot) then just by chance, in one of them, the laws and circumstances will be such as to permit the development of carbon-based life. But, of course, that's the one in which we live, because we couldn't appear anywhere else.

This seems a viable option although only one universe may have been created it just so happens that it contains us. Different Universes might have created different forms of life, or not, but they may not have been created.

The other possibility that there is more going on than has met the eye and the sharp shooters are on our side. That translates into the idea that this is not just any old universe. Rather it is a universe which is a creation which has been endowed by its Creator with just those finely-tuned given laws and circumstances that will make its history fruitful. It is the fulfilment of a purpose.

Well there is that possibility. Except you would still have to go from a Creator to your specific Creator. The question is whether there is any reason to think that the shooters are on our side. I suggest there is no reason to prefer this view to the other view and considerable reason to think that God, if He exists, did not leave any traces of His existence in the Universe.

Each created thing is allowed to behave in accordance with kits nature, including the due regularities which may be a part of its nature.

Except that God created each thing with its own nature. How can a tiger be blamed for being a tiger? It does what it does. To take a bizarre example, someone found a case of homosexual necrophilia among mallard ducks (and won an Ignobel prize for it). That is not, surely, sinful among ducks because God created them the way they are and they can do nothing else. The question is whether by creating us as we are and the circumstances in which we find ourselves, do we have meaningful free-will? I would say if you assume an All-Powerful, All-Knowing God who already knows the outcomes of all our actions, obviously not.

God no more expressly wills the growth of a cancer than he expressly wills the act of a murderer, but he allows both to happen. He is not the puppet master of either people or matter.

God manifestly does will the growth of cancer - it is a natural process after all. Perhaps He does not expressly will murder, but He knows it is going to happen and He creates the circumstances that lead up to it.

There is a Hadith which address these issues eschatologicaly which I'll dig out if you are interested. For me it is the best solution to the problem of theodicy I have read anywhere. Let me know if you are interested
I don't knoe about Joe but I am.
 
You are mistaken, Christians believe as follows. On judgement day you will stand before God.

You will be sent to paradise or to hell. Mostly good people go to paradise and bad people go to hell.

But it is by the grace of God. This means that bad people might be forgiven and sent to paradise and some good people might be sent to hell.

Christians believe that you cannot presume to know the will of God and that God might send you anywhere.

-


Hey.


That's exactly what us muslims believe, except we have proofs from the Qur'an and Sunnah to support this, whereas the christians are always in a debate - due to the difference of opinion by Paul and James.


Peace.
 
There is a Hadith which address these issues eschatologicaly which I'll dig out if you are interested. For me it is the best solution to the problem of theodicy I have read anywhere. Let me know if you are interested
I don't knoe about Joe but I am.

Dear Joe98 & Heigou, I hope you enjoy these thoughts...

For Islam as for Christianity this life is a preparation for what is to come, but no one will seriously prepare himself for something that appears to him unreal, a fantasy, a dream. It is difficult enough for the young to grasp in an entirely concrete manner the fact that - assuming they survive - they will eventually be old people. How much more difficult, then, for the human creature, young or old, to understand that divine Judgement, heaven and hell will come as surely as tomorrow's dawn, or yet more surely, since that dawn cannot come unless God so wills, whereas the advent of physical death and all that follows upon it represents the only infallible prediction we can make concerning our future.

It is by no means easy for those whose whole attention is focused upon the massive apparent reality of this world to accept the fact that it can at any moment, and will at some moment, disappear like a puff of smoke. Yet the Qur'an assures us that the akhiria, the hereafter, is 'better and more lasting', and this suggests that it is more real than any 'reality' we experience here.

The three monotheistic religions (unlike Hinduism, for example) are not altogether happy with the imagery of 'dreaming' as applied to our present state of existence, although this imagery is by no means foreign either to Islam or Christianity. It is often misunderstood, since people readily take it to mean that life is 'less real' than we take it to be, whereas the intention is to indicate that there are other possible states of experience so intense that, in relation to our everyday experience of this world, they may be compared to wakefulness in relation to dreaming. There is a hadith recorded by Muslim which can scarcely be interpreted in any other terms. The man who had the pleasantest life in the world, so we are told, will be dipped momentarily into hell on the Day of Resurrection. He will then be asked, 'Son of Adam, did you ever experience any good? Did anything pleasant ever come your way?' and he will reply, 'No, my Lord, I swear it!' Then the man who, of all men, had the most miserable life on earth will be dipped momentarily into Paradise. He will then be brought before his Lord and asked, 'Son of Adam, did you ever have any misfortune? Did any distress ever come your way?' and he will reply, 'No, my Lord, I swear it! No misfortune has ever come to me and I have never known distress.'

It would be difficult to find a simpler or more striking illustration of the difference between degrees of reality as experienced by a consciousness transposed from a lower one to a higher one. At the same time it offers, at least to those who are prepared to accept the possibility that there may be states of experience 'more real' than anything we live through here, one answer to the question as to how God can allow the innocent to suffer in this world. If anyone were to awaken from a bad dream, full of fear and torment, to find himself at home beside his beloved, sunlight streaming through the window, a prospect of golden days before him and all his deepest longings satisfied, for how long would he remember the pain of his dream? On the other hand, if he were to awaken from a dream of delight to find himself in an all too familiar prison cell, awaiting the next session of torture at the hands of merciless inquisitors and quite without hope, dream-pleasure would melt away in moments. Whether it be sweet or sour, reality takes precedence over dreaming, and the greater reality takes precedence over the lesser.

A delicate balance has to be maintained between two extremes: on the one hand a view of human life which attributes absolute reality to the world of the senses, on the other a view which dismisses this world as 'unreal'. Islam, as the religion of the 'middle way' has maintained this balance with great care, however often individual Muslims may have veered to one extreme or the other.

this is taken from Islam and the destiny of Man, by Gai Eaton :)
 
This is quite an interesting thread. So far I'm trying to read the whole thing, I must say I still am not fully comprehending what each person has said or what specificaly I would like to add or just keep my mouth shut. Just to add some thing here that may be of some use to some body. Here is a short flash movie that compares Islam and Christianity. Points out some similaritites and the major differences. Just dropping this off as a reference tool for any who wish to use it.

http://media.putfile.com/IslamChristianity-compared
 
Fundamental Christians and all Muslims believe that all morals have been given to mankind by God, and that by studying the Word of God one can conclude the rights and wrongs on all issues. In other words morals, what is right and what is wrong, are absolutes. This contrasts with contemporary western society where morals are open to reasoning and that religion although possibly having a large part to play is not the decisive element, which is the concept of what is humane.


Basically then fundamental Christians and Muslims form their religious beliefs in the same manner but from different sources. I do not feel that these two groups can peacefully co-exist. We do need to take into account that not all Christians are fundamental and some Muslims are becoming more secular. Such secularization is inevitable due to a global economy.

There is hope I believe for peace between Christianity and Islam.:)
 
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