Question : Where is the evidence?

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ardianto

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We can meet and gather in this forum because we use internet.

But are you sure that Muslims are allowed to use internet?. If you say yes, please show me ayah or hadith which mention that Muslims are allowed to use internet.

I am waiting.
 
Interesting question. Normally people wonder what kind of things are allowed to do as using internet, what not. This article considers about reading the Quran (also) via internet:

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/fatwa-allows-quran-reading-on-smartphones

Since 2008, Awqaf has been issuing fatwas through its "Ifta centre" in Abu Dhabi in response to questions about what is permissible under Sharia law.

"You are to read [the Quran] using whatever means possible, for that is better than not reading at all, and you will be rewarded greatly for doing so," the fatwa said.

It also said since "we have gadgets that make searches easy", they should be used for the benefit of Islam, such as finding and reading verses from the Quran and Ahadith (Prophet Mohammed's sayings), and reliable Islamic information.

Reading the Quran on PCs, laptops and the internet is also allowed.

But anyways, I am not a scholar - I just read that article from the internet.
 
The Internet is a tool just like a screwdriver, wrench, gun, knife, etc. It can be used to do good things, and/or bad things. It's up to you to decide how you use it. If used properly, then it is not haram in my opinion but of course I could be wrong.
 
Wow, so sudden this question...and I had to double check as I was quite surprised that it came from you, br. Ardianto ;D

Like are we allowed to use modern transport? Loudspeaker systems (in our masjids), let alone money and other things we have taken for granted in our daily lives..

I think it has to do with intentions..


:peace:
 
Is there no any of you who can show me ayah or hadith which mention that Muslim are allowed to use internet?. Okay, I will show you something.

.

.

Internet did not exist in the era of Rasulullah (saw). Of course you will not find any ayah or hadith about internet. I know it. But why I asked you to show me ayah or hadith about internet?. Because I know you cannot show me ayah or hadith like this!.

So do not easy to be fooled by someone who ask you "where is the evidence from Qur'an or hadith that ........ ", because this question is a trap. The person who asks it know that you cannot show ayah hadith which he ask. Then it will give him a chance to push you to follow his opinion.

You must aware of this, okay?. :)
 
^^ He made a trap, and the trap said "snap" when we entered it. :embarrass
 
Deed or action are shared into to category. First is Ibadah, or act of worship. Second is Muamalah, or deed/act in relationship between human and human. Using internet is not placed in category of Ibadah, but placed in category of Muamalah.

The principle of Ibadah: Everything is haram, unless there is evidence that allow it.. We should not do act of worship that not taught by Rasulullah (saw).

The principle of Muamalah: Everything is halal, unless there is evidence that disallow it.. Trading is halal because there is no prohibition for it. But riba is haram because there is ayah that prohibit it.

Using internet is halal because there is no prohibition for this. But of course, visit porn site in internet is haram because there is prohibition to watch porn whatever its form.

What made me create this thread is because often enough I found (in internet) people ask "Where is the evidence that we are allowed to do that?". And I notice, all of these question are related to Muamalah, not Ibadah. The right question for Muamalah matter is "Where is the evidence that we are not allowed to do that?".
 
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It was a trap set by br. Ardianto after all... no wonder I did the double check. ^o)

But fair point. . . And I like the explanation. Jazakallah khair.

:peace:
 
ardianto, you should have waited longer to hear other responses! Still, it was fun. Thanks :)
 
ardianto, you should have waited longer to hear other responses! Still, it was fun. Thanks :)
If I waited longer then someone would realize and told me "Ardianto, you already know that there was no internet in the era of Rasulullah. So there is no ayah or hadith about internet!". Then I would lose the surprise element.

:)
 
We don't have ayaat or hadeeth for every thing, but we are given the principles. The internet is only a tool which can be used for good or evil things. We are encouraged to do good and are forbidden from evil deeds. So we should use the internet for good only.

We cannot say that there is no ayat in the Quraan about internet on the bases that in the past there was no internet. At the time of revelation of the Holy Quraan, there were no cars, buses, airplanes or mountain-like ships, but the Quraan has got verses which point towards these things. There may be verse or verses about internet but we couldn't find them.
 
If the Quran listed all the things you can do it would be bigger than the planet. It lists all the forbidden. So the internet is permissible as it is not listed as haram in the Quran.
 
I'm not sure if this is your intention but often this is the argument used for bidah.

however the difference is that innovations related to tech or means are permissible.

The haram bidah is that which is added into the religion, and presented as an act of worship. Such as adding extra rakat in the sunnah salawat. Or adding a new holiday which was not celebrated by the Prophet Salla Allah Alayhi Wa Sallam.
And Allah subhana wa taala knows best.
Salams
I
 
I have a shaikh once that responded to such a question by asking: What is the evidence that tomatoes are halal?

His point is that there are general rulings in Islam in which many rulings fall under. In this case, the ruling used for both tomatoes and internet is that "everything is halal until proven haram."
 
:sl:

We can meet and gather in this forum because we use internet.

But are you sure that Muslims are allowed to use internet?. If you say yes, please show me ayah or hadith which mention that Muslims are allowed to use internet.

I am waiting.

What about motorbikes?

And [He created] the horses, mules and donkeys for you to ride and [as] adornment. And He creates that which you do not know.

Quran 16:8

One may wonder if the bold part refers to biological creation or technological - the answer is in the verse below:

That has created pairs in all things, and has made for you*ships* and cattle on which ye ride,*

(* سورة الزخرف *, Az-Zukhruf, Chapter*#43, Verse*#12)

And His are the*ships*sailing smoothly through the seas, lofty as mountains:
*
(* سورة الرحمن *, Ar-Rahman
Chapter*#55, Verse*#24)

He has given many things as a mercy and benefit for mankind and has forbidden injustice:

Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the*shipsthrough the ocean for the benefit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail subservient between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise

.*(* سورة البقرة *, Al-Baqara, Chapter*#2, Verse*#164)
Say: Who hath forbidden the beautiful (gifts) of Allah, which He hath produced for His servants, and the things, good, clean and pure, (which He hath provided) for sustenance?
Say: They are, in the life of this world, for those who believe, (and) purely for them on the Day of Judgment.
Thus do We explain the signs in detail for those who understand.
Quran 7:32 [/quote]

Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason."


The above verses are evidence, however though the below verses cannot be used as such You'll maybe note wondrously that both the messages sulaiman (pbuh) sent via the hoopoe are very short, they fit in tweets, and arrive at destinations before your glance returns to you:

15.*We gave (in the past) knowledge to David and Solomon: And they both said: "Praise be to Allah, Who has favoured us above many of his servants who believe!"
16.*And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"
17.*And before Solomon were marshalled his hosts,- of Jinns and men and birds, and they were all kept in order and ranks.
18.*At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."
19.*So he smiled, amused at her speech; and he said: "O my Lord! so order me that I may be grateful for Thy favours, which thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may work the righteousness that will please Thee: And admit me, by Thy Grace, to the ranks of Thy righteous Servants."
20.*And he took a muster of the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees?
21.*"I will certainly punish him with a severe penalty, or execute him, unless he bring me a clear reason (for absence)."
22.*But the Hoopoe tarried not far: he (came up and) said: "I have compassed (territory) which thou hast not compassed, and I have come to thee from Saba with tidings true.
23.*"I found (there) a woman ruling over them and provided with every requisite; and she has a magnificent throne.
24.*"I found her and her people worshipping the sun besides Allah. Satan has made their deeds seem pleasing in their eyes, and has kept them away from the Path,- so they receive no guidance,-
25.*"(Kept them away from the Path), that they should not worship Allah, Who brings to light what is hidden in the heavens and the earth, and knows what ye hide and what ye reveal.
26.*"(Allah)!- there is no god but He!- Lord of the Throne Supreme!"
27.*(Solomon) said: "Soon shall we see whether thou hast told the truth or lied!
28.*"Go thou, with this letter of mine, and deliver it to them: then draw back from them, and (wait to) see what answer they return"...
29.*(The queen) said: "Ye chiefs! here is delivered to me - a letter worthy of respect.
30.*"It is from Solomon, and is (as follows): 'In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful:
31.*"'Be ye not arrogant against me, but come to me in submission (to the true Religion).'"

32.*She said: "Ye chiefs! advise me in (this) my affair: no affair have I decided except in your presence."
33.*They said: "We are endued with strength, and given to vehement war: but the command is with thee; so consider what thou wilt command."
34.*She said: "Kings, when they enter a country, despoil it, and make the noblest of its people its meanest thus do they behave.
35.*"But I am going to send him a present, and (wait) to see with what (answer) return (my) ambassadors."
36.*Now when (the embassy) came to Solomon, he said: "Will ye give me abundance in wealth? But that which Allah has given me is better than that which He has given you! Nay it is ye who rejoice in your gift!
37.*"Go back to them, and be sure we shall come to them with such hosts as they will never be able to meet: We shall expel them from there in disgrace, and they will feel humbled (indeed)."
38.*He said (to his own men): "Ye chiefs! which of you can bring me her throne before they come to me in submission?"
39.*Said an 'Ifrit, of the Jinns: "I will bring it to thee before thou rise from thy council: indeed I have full strength for the purpose, and may be trusted."
40.*Said one who had knowledge of the Book: "I will bring it to thee before thy glance returns to thee!" Then when (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, he said: "This is by the Grace of my Lord!- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! and if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, truly my Lord is Free of all Needs, Supreme in Honour !"
41.*He said: "Transform her throne out of all recognition by her: let us see whether she is guided (to the truth) or is one of those who receive no guidance."
42.*So when she arrived, she was asked, "Is this thy throne?" She said, "It was just like this; and knowledge was bestowed on us in advance of this, and we have submitted to Allah (in Islam)."
43.*And he diverted her from the worship of others besides Allah. for she was (sprung) of a people that had no faith.
44.*She was asked to enter the lofty Palace: but when she saw it, she thought it was a lake of water, and she (tucked up her skirts), uncovering her legs. He said: "This is but a palace paved smooth with slabs of glass." She said: "O my Lord! I have indeed wronged my soul: I do (now) submit (in Islam), with Solomon, to the Lord of the Worlds."

Here's how it works:
 
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Seem like some people miss my point. I created this thread to show the reality about some Muslims who use "where is the evidence" as trap in debate.

In example, there is question from anti-madhab group, "where is the hadith which mention that Muslims can follow imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Shafi'i?". They really ask this question. Of course no one can show hadith like this because Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Shafi'i had not been born in the period of Rasulullah. And it give them advantage to go to the next argument "since Rasulullah never order Muslims to follow Imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Shafi'i, Muslims should not follow them".

Ridiculous?. Yes, but I really found this argument.

I have found many ridiculous argument that related with "where is the evidence", like "is there ayah or hadith which mention that we can eat egg?". This is argument behind fatwa that say eating egg is haram. Or "Where is ayah or hadith which mention that human can go to outer space?". This is argument of people who believe that human never went to outer space, despite the fact that few Muslims have ever went to outer space.

What about motorbikes?
If you are in debate with someone who say that riding motorbike is haram, is possible he would ask you to show ayah or hadith that really mention "motorbike" in its text. This is behavior of some Muslims that I have noticed.
 
Lol i wasn't attacking you man!
I skimmed through the thread first and understood that you were trying to project the question of the hole in the ground toilet vs commode, i also wanted to show that we don't just go by hawaa but are commanded to judge with justice in light of Quran using sincerity and 'aql, and no need to get ur knickers in a twist coz the question was answered! :)

On the question of motorbikes i did write this:

...One may wonder if the bold part refers to biological creation or technological - the answer is in the verse below.....
 
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I know, bro, I know. So don't worry that I will angry because your post. :)

No worries, i hope i didn't anger you unjustly.

No human being from Adam (pbuh) is perfect so we just gotta humbly admit that Allah is perfect and that repenting, submitting to Him, and being guided by His Laws and wisdom in sincerity and truth is the nearest we'll ever get to perfection.
 

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