Salaam, Peace, and Shanti, Sisters and Brothers,
For those who do not have the time or do not wish to strain their eyes, by reading the HUMONGOUS ARTICLE ABOVE here is what Subhash Sharma wrote in his summary"
As is clear in the above, Vedas represent acquired, accumulated and compiled ancient knowledge. Not only the Brahmins wrote or contributed to this (Vedic) knowledge, but it came from all sources and castes (vocations). Some of the Vedic hymns (such as in the above) were composed by regular workers and the children of Shudra. Note also that there are only three original Vedas (Rig, Yajur and Sam) -- that are basic to Hinduism -- and Atharva Veda is not one of them.
Vedic vocations (castes, varna) seem to have arisen according to need (for wealth), opportunity (where work existed Ee.g. Brahmin looks for worshipper, and physician looks for sick, etc.) and qualification (Brahmin has priestly background, carpenter specializes in wood-working, etc.). Moreover, in one family there are people with three different occupations (singer / entertainer, physician / healer, corn-grinder / worker). Choice of vocation, in addition to pursuing the wealth to live on, also seems to be based on combining a natural and acquired talent (e.g. a joyful host) with aesthetic aspirations (seeking laugh and jest from appreciative audience). Vocations (castes) therefore are not based on heredity.
In the above Vedic hymns, a woman's importance (as an occupational contributor, and as a companion / mate) is also recognized and valued in the same manner as that of a man. It indicates that the women had a high social standing and even might be at par with men.
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Note - 3:
* Constituents of the body (as in the Gita: Ch. 7 - V. 4):
physical (earth, water, fire, air, space); and subtle or derived (mind, intellect, ego).
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Note - 4:
** God and Creation are inseparable.
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Note - 5:
*** Caste system (vocation, jati-kram) basically represents the elaboration or description of various vocations (castes or varna) in a society in terms of people's talents / qualifications (guna) and the corresponding jobs (karma). Casteism ( jati-vad, jati-pana or jatiyat), on the other hand, is the social stratification (or society becoming rigidly divided) in terms of those vocations or castes. It arises mainly when children automatically and naturally start inheriting jobs (occupations) of their parents. To get rid of casteism, people should be encouraged to engage in all types of occupations.
Note that, as a rule, Srutis (Vedas) always have precedence over Smritis, (including Manu-Smriti and Puranas). Therefore, in matters of controversy regarding casteism etc., follow the advice of the sruti and not the smriti.
you even gave summary for that large article.... you're so helpful... I hope others should follow you too...
When, in our rituals, we offer something to the fire (put it in the fire) it is automatically consumed, and we believe its essence goes directly to God. Agni is also the first priest, messenger between humans and God.
Fire is also a source of light, and lustre as is the sun. Glory also has the connotation of brightness, and light. We often pray to that aspect of God which represents the things that we are asking for, to grant us those things.
8. Abrahamic religions are "dual" in nature. There is good and evil. God is good, Satan is evil. This leads to the conclusion that something must be "either this or that".
I get the desire for purity and how you see that in something beautiful rising out of the muck. But the following escapes me: "It beauty is so pure, that even droplets of water will roll off its petals or leaves." Water will roll off of about anything that doesn't absorb it, be it a lotus petal, a blade or grass, or a mangey dog's back; beauty and purity don't appear to have anything to do with it.Although the lotus is rooted in the filthiest muck, it rises above the water in splendorous beauty and purity. It beauty is so pure, that even droplets of water will roll off its petals or leaves.
It represents our goal, to rise from the quagmire of mundane existence and achieve perfection by merging with God. We, too can be like the lotus which has arisen from the filth to achieve purity.
Originally Posted by Sarada
8. Abrahamic religions are "dual" in nature. There is good and evil. God is good, Satan is evil. This leads to the conclusion that something must be "either this or that".
I find this viewing perplexingly interesting. I have heard expressed often, and I see it portrayed this way in cartoons with the devil on one shoulder and the angel on another, but I don't really understand why this is such a common perception. Since in creating the world God saw everything and said that it was good, and since Satan is nothing but a fallen angel (i.e., not the antithesis of God), where does this perception come from?
On a lesser note, I don't quite get your point here:
I get the desire for purity and how you see that in something beautiful rising out of the muck. But the following escapes me: "It beauty is so pure, that even droplets of water will roll off its petals or leaves." Water will roll off of about anything that doesn't absorb it, be it a lotus petal, a blade or grass, or a mangey dog's back; beauty and purity don't appear to have anything to do with it.
Fair enough. You cannot answer where it comes from for other people. But perhaps you could tell me how it is that you came to perceive Christianity to teach dualism? Merely the recognition that there is both good and evil in the world is NOT my understanding of what is meant by dualism. I thought that dualism was a belief that there were equal but competing powers of good and evil at war with each other in the world. Is this later description how you understand the Christian view of the world, and if so, how did you arrive at that perception?"Where does this perception come from?" is not a question for a Hindu to answer.
Fair enough. You cannot answer where it comes from for other people. But perhaps you could tell me how it is that you came to perceive Christianity to teach dualism? Merely the recognition that there is both good and evil in the world is NOT my understanding of what is meant by dualism. I thought that dualism was a belief that there were equal but competing powers of good and evil at war with each other in the world. Is this later description how you understand the Christian view of the world, and if so, how did you arrive at that perception?
The short answer is, it is what I was taught in Sunday school.
I remain convinced that many lay Christians have this world view.
However, having researched the issue, I concede that in Christian Theology, there is a fine distinction between absolute dualism and Christain modified moral dualism.
"Ethical or ethicoreligious dualism asserts that there are two mutually hostile forces or beings in the world, the one being the source of all good, the other the source of all evil..... The universe becomes the battleground for these opposing beings, identified respectively with light and darkness....
Christian theology generally accepts a modified moral dualism, recognizing God as supremely good and Satan as a deteriorated creature bent everywhere upon the intrusion of evil. This, however, is not dualism in the sense of its usual definition, since Christian theology does not consider Satan to be ultimate or original, and sees him ultimately excluded from the universe."
H B Kuhn
(Elwell Evangelical Dictionary)
Bibliography
D Runes, Dictionary of Philosophy."
I am not nor do I pretend to be a theologian or an expert on any religion including Hinduism, if you recall, when I was asked to start this thread, I said that I would answer questions on Hinduism to the best of my ability. I have done so, and will continue to do so.
Perhaps the discussion of whether or not Christian Theologians or Christian lay people have a dualistic perspective on God and Satan should be discussed on a more appropriate thread.
You have answered it. You believe you came by that view in Sunday school. ... it is a vestige of your former Christian education. ....
Yes, it is what I understood at the time.
Hindiusm does not give an opinion of what Christians or people of any other religion believe.So, this is not something that Hinduism teaches that Christians believe
Sarada, I wasn't trying to debate with you regarding Christian theology. Nonetheless, you had taken the initiative to provide a comparison between Christian beliefs vis-a-vis Hindu beliefs:post #36. However, what you asserted as Christian teaching was not in fact what I understand to be Christian teaching. Now, as you said, you wanted to keep the discussion to Hindu beliefs, as did I. Thus, I didn't even respond to correct what I thought was a mistaken desciption of Christian beliefs. But later, the same thought reasserted itself in another post....
Although my post on Hindu Christian Point Counter Point (post # 36) (how do I make that a link?) was indeed taken from a Hindu website, the Christian viewpoint was written by the editors of 'Christianity Today'.
"Hindu-Christian Point-Counterpoint: Are all religions really one? Read this point-counterpoint and decide for yourself! This is a list of nine parallel aspects of theology from both faiths, e.g., the concept of Hindu liberation is compared with the Christian concept of salvation. A collaboration between the editors of Hinduism Today and the editors of Christianity Today (who wrote every word of the Christian beliefs), this comparison was printed in Christianity Today to give readers a better understanding of Hinduism."
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/basics/
I should have included that explanation in the original post. I will edit that post accordingly to prevent any future misunderstandings.
As your view of Christianity was impacting the way you as a Hindu related to it, I wanted to know where or how it was that you gained this view.
I'm sorry if I gave the impression, that my view of Christianity's dualism or non-dualism was impacted by my being a Hindu. How I relate to Christianity is based solely on my own experiences as Christian and discussions that I have had with other Christians, before I became a Hindu.
I'll leave any further discussion about the truth or lack thereof of that view or the nature of your former Christian education for other threads
I would be more than happy to gain a better understanding of Christian beliefs. It seems that my level of understanding is incomplete. Is there a thread called "Questions about Christianity answered by a Christian"?
namaste,
i am curious - how do the indians act toward the western hindus? are they completely accepted? (of course, i realize that this would pretty much depend on the indivuals you run into.)
i know back in the late 60's and 70's many westerners came to hinduism as a result of their drug experiences. some gave up the drugs, but some continued to use them.
Happy Raksha Bandhan! August 28 2007
The chaste bond of love between a brother and a sister is one of the deepest and noblest of human emotions. 'Raksha Bandhan' or 'Rakhi' is a special occasion to celebrate this emotional bonding by tying a holy thread around the wrist. This thread, which pulsates with sisterly love and sublime sentiments, is rightly called the ‘Rakhi’. It means 'a bond of protection', and Raksha Bandhan signifies that the strong must protect the weak from all that’s evil.
The ritual is observed on the full moon day of the Hindu month of Shravan, on which sisters tie the sacred Rakhi string on their brothers' right wrists, and pray for their long life.
This sounds like a very cool custom. Is there anything that brothers give to sisters on this or for some other occasion?
Sisters prepare a beautiful platter with flowers and a lighted ghee lamp, sweets, and sandalwood or turmeric paste, and the "rakhi" The sister waves the platter slowly in front of her brother to honour "the God within", applies sandalwood or turmeric paste to his forhead, and puts a sweet in his mouth. She will then tie the rakhi to his wrist. If he is older, she will also touch his feet, if he is younger, she will give him a kiss on the cheek.
The brother may wave the light before his sister. If she is older, the brother will touch her feet, if she is younger, he will give her a kiss on the cheek. .
The brother will then put a sweet in his sister's mouth, and give her some money, perhaps along with a flower.
This can be done with biological siblings, or you can choose a "rakhi brother or sister" with whom you have a special bond. This year I am going to initiate my friend of 35 years as my rakhi brother (I am not going to tell him about the brother giving money, because I don't think it is necessary, but it has become customary).
This ritual can be modified to suit anyone's customs or beliefs. One could for example, dispense with the touching of the feet and waving of the lamp.
My brother-in-law, for example, who is a Christian, while his brothers and sisters are Hindus, is accommodated by dispensing with the lamp and the touching of feet.
So, this honoring is intiated by the sister. If I was Hindu and wanted to communicate to a dear female friend that I wished to honor her as my sister, is there a Hindu way of doing this?
Salaam,
Is it true that at times your gods fight one another or quarrel?
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