Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew!

[thirdwatch512]

oh, here's a question for my fellow jewish friends!!

so ok the tanakh says that the messiah will be persecuted and be killed. but it also says that the messiah will bring a time of total world peace. so it's sort of saying that everyone will believe in the messiah and the world will be at peace, but at the same time he will be persecuted.

i know this isn't a contradiction. as a christian, we obviously know that jesus was persecuted and killed. and we believe that the time of world peace will come when he returns.

so how do jews this it will all turn out?

 

[rebelishaulman]

oh, here's a question for my fellow jewish friends!!

so ok the tanakh says that the messiah will be persecuted and be killed. but it also says that the messiah will bring a time of total world peace. so it's sort of saying that everyone will believe in the messiah and the world will be at peace, but at the same time he will be persecuted.

i know this isn't a contradiction. as a christian, we obviously know that jesus was persecuted and killed. and we believe that the time of world peace will come when he returns.

so how do jews this it will all turn out?

Could you please provide the verses you are speaking about so we can analyze them.

Thanks,
Rabbi Elisha

 

[thirdwatch512]

Could you please provide the verses you are speaking about so we can analyze them.

Thanks,
Rabbi Elisha

oh you're a rabbi!! awesome!! lol.

anyways in the tanakh is was mentioned several times that the messiah will be persecuted and killed. i don't remember all of the verses but i do know psalms 118:23 says it.

also, we all know that it says the messiah will bring world peace. so how can world peace be brought if ppl obviously didn't believe in him (going so far as to persecute him.)

 

[thirdwatch512]

Because the Moses was only sent to the Children of Israel, not to all of mankind. His law has now been abrogated by the Quran. The Quran was sent to all of mankind, until the Day of Judgement.



The Torah is not authoritative since it does not contain the original message of Moses, it was mixed with the words of men.

It never was meant to be eternal. It was sent to the Children of Israel and now has been abrogated.

Everyone is meant to be following the Quran now.

you're joking right?

the 613 mitzvot laws are to be applied to all jews, and the gentiles (non jews) are to follow the 7 noahtide laws. prophets must come from Israel, and the jews are Gods chosen people, but needless to say the God of judaism isn't just a God for israel.. He is a God for the world. if he was just for israel, why does america have 3 million + jews? why did medina used to be jewish majority, and alexandria!

and there was a gentile prophet too lol.

 

[rebelishaulman]

Impressive responses.

 

[rebelishaulman]

oh you're a rabbi!! awesome!! lol.

anyways in the tanakh is was mentioned several times that the messiah will be persecuted and killed. i don't remember all of the verses but i do know psalms 118:23 says it.

also, we all know that it says the messiah will bring world peace. so how can world peace be brought if ppl obviously didn't believe in him (going so far as to persecute him.)

Psalms 118:23 says: This was from the L-rd; it is wondrous in our eyes.

Could you please be a little more specific and post the text to all the claims you make. Thanks.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Impressive responses.

I think I understand where you are coming from, even if I don't fully agree with where you end up going.

 

[IzakHalevas]

Whether the thread has lost its purpose or not, I do not know. Here are things that I do know, that I don't know, and that I wonder about.

I know that I have been informed by many that Turks have a reputation for being among the most polite and friendly people on earth. I wonder if you are from Turkey? Perhaps you consider yourself more Jewish than Turkish?

I know that Muslim Woman asked a question about Deuteronomy 18:18 in which she also made some assertions of other people's beliefs. And I know that she and I had a polite colloquey in discussing one of those points which she raised.

I don't know to whom you were speaking when you said "Muslim women cannot understand the most simple concept..." I do not know if you were speaking to Muslim Woman alone, or to all Muslim women, but I do know that you were rude in the manner in which you addressed whomever it was you were addressing.

I also know that when I asked about how Jews understood the Tanakh instructed them to treat non-Jews relative to Dueteronomy 10:19, that I was told that this verse did not have to do with how Jews were to treat non-Jews, but only how they were to treat converts in their midst. I know that this type of interpreation of the passage (a misinterpretation in my way of reading the text) would exempt you from showing love to Muslim Woman as she is just a non-Jew and not a convert.

I do not know whether any of this makes any difference to you or not, previously I would have thought so, but based on what I have learned in recent days, I sort of doubt it. Perhaps showing simple politeness to one's fellow human beings is too simple of a concept. :embarrass

I have no problem with the rest of the post in which you are interpretting Isaiah 29:12. But I caution if you want to make a thread ridiculous just tell those of us who participate in it that we are ridiculous; I can't think of a faster way to prove your point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, and lest someone think that perhaps I am operating under a double standard. I confess I am. I am asking for treatment according to Leviticus 19:18 -- "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD." But I am practicing the form taught by Rabbi Michael J. Gotlieb in the article rebelishaulman posted as commentary on this subject wherein the rabbi suggested that truly loving someone was to practice the prior verse: Leviticus 19:17 (and quoting only the half which he quoted) -- "Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt."

Or is it too simple of a concept to suggest that all people should be treated with politeness, but one group of people have more responsibility for doing so?

The assertions have been refuted many times, I have seen Muslim Woman the member post her claim before and get it refuted, and now she just posts it again. It is very annoying.

Now, back to what I was discussing. This thread has turned into a Christianity debate, and an thread of Muslims coming here and attacking the Israeli Army, which has nothing to do with Judaism, making baseless claims and continuing on and on to tell us the same things about out Holy Books that we continue to refute.

I have had a member on this forum tell me that Since I am a Jew that I should be kicked out of Turkey, so maybe I have become more Jewish then Turkish.

Read the whole quote here:

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9619/proofkk7.png

Hmmm...

This is just getting ridiculous. Your comments have brought this thread to an even more off topic point and to tell you the truth I could not care if I seem a bit rude. It may seem offensive to you, but I am having a bad day, and I this thread is done in my opinion when challeneges and open debates occur from two religions and not even one of them is Judaism.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Could you please explain the following as explicitly as possible thankyou very much. (may have been addressed before)

"Also the children of the impudent among thy people shall make bold to claim prophecy, but they shall fall." (Daniel 11:14). [27]

 

[rebelishaulman]

Deuteronomy 18:18: "I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee [Moses], and will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

---Christians claim that it was Prophet Jesus (p) , Muslims claim that it was Prophet Muhammed (p) . Jews dismiss both claims ; I want to know whom u think was mentioned in this verse ?

This is speaking of the Moshiach (Messiah). It is also refering to a Jew. How do I know this?

Deuteronomy 17:15 says: You shall put (appoint) upon yourself a king that G-d will pick him; from amongst your brethren you shall appoint a king; you will not be able to give upon yourself a foreign man that is not your brother.


For further explicitness of the term foreigner:

Exodus 12:43: And G-d said to Moses and Aaron: This is the ordinance of the Passover offering, every son of a foreigner shall not eat of it.

Since we can now see that a foreigner does not take part of something as central as the Passover celebration, which is incumbant on all Israelite males when the Temple stands, we can see that a foreigner is simply a non-Israelite, and it doesn't matter their genealogy.

The Passover celebration is reserved for Israelites only. Therefore, non-Israelites may not take part in it. The term "amongst your bretheren" is telling us that the Moshiach will be a Jew.

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned." {Isaiah 29:12}

If this does indeed refer to Mohammad, then I would have to say the prophecy came true. You see, this verse is refering to a false prophet. Isaiah specificaly describes someone who is not learned and tells us this man will be a false prophet.

The very next line says:

And the L-rd said: "Because this people has come near; with their mouth and with their lips they honor Me, but their heart they draw far away from Me, and their fear of Me has become a command of people, which has been taught.

So the verse says that this false prophet will lead a people that will honor G-d with there lips, but there hearts will be far from G-d, and they will be following a religion made by man. Not G-d.

Sounds like a pretty good predictions of Islam in my view by Isaiah. Thank you for presenting this to me. It seem Isaiah does predict a man not learned who is a false prophet with followers who praise G-d a lot but follow a man made religion.

Muslim Woman, this is a great thing you have done to shown me how amazing the Tanakh is!

"Also the children of the impudent among thy people shall make bold to claim prophecy, but they shall fall." (Daniel 11:14). [27]

What exactly would you like to know about this verse. I have read it in context with early christianity and its followers as renegades abusing the law.

and the sons of the renegades of your people will exalt themselves to bring about the vision but they will fail.
​

 

[thirdwatch512]

shalom,

i have one quick question..

ok my friend told me that in the Torah there's a mathematical miracle, and every 42 letters or words or something like that, you will get a word that starts with a T, then 42 more and O, then 42 more R, then A, then H. is that true, or? i was interrupted before my friend finished telling me, so idk if it was 42, 43, letters, words, or what lol.

 

[eagleye]

was not Joshua who inherit moses position? who kept after moses, to lead people of israel to the promise land??? :mmokay:

 

[rebelishaulman]

To clear up your misconceptions. I am not hear to condemn another Jew or anyone for that matter. I am hear to answer questions. I sincerely never heard of Isaiah speaking of a false prophet so I thanked the member who provided me with this information. I do not believe there is anything else to analyze.

since judism is named after a man and not God's service...

Well the name "Judaism" in english is named after a man. But the word "Yehudi" is the name for Judaism not butchered by the english language and it has a much deeper meaning.

 

[Woodrow]

Let us all remember, this is a strictly question and answer thread and is not intended to be a debate.

 

[rebelishaulman]

shalom,

i have one quick question..

ok my friend told me that in the Torah there's a mathematical miracle, and every 42 letters or words or something like that, you will get a word that starts with a T, then 42 more and O, then 42 more R, then A, then H. is that true, or? i was interrupted before my friend finished telling me, so idk if it was 42, 43, letters, words, or what lol.

You may be refering to Gematria. Here is some reading material on the subject since I am not learned in that area.

http://www.inner.org/gematria/gematria.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria

 

[arabiyyah]

if a convert to judaism decides to not be jewish anymore can he leave judaism>????

 

[rebelishaulman]

if a convert to judaism decides to not be jewish anymore can he leave judaism>????

If someone converts to Judaism without practicing Judaism, that is, without being a religious Jew, then his conversion is bogus. He remains a gentile. He does not become Jewish at all.

However, if he went through a valid conversion, meaning, a conversion where he fulfilled all the technical requirements of conversions, one of which is to practice Judaism, then, if somewheredown the road he changes is mind and decides he does not want to be Jewish, it is too late. He is stuck being Jewish, and even if he becomes non-religious, since, at the time of conversion he was then religious, he will remain Jewish forever.

If that type of situation G-d forbid happens, it would have been much better for the person to have remained a gentile. There is nothgin wrong with being a gentile according to the Torah. But there is a lot wrong with being a non-religious Jew.

So by making himself Jewish and then becoming non-religious, he has done a terrible diservice to himself. Better had he remained a gentile.

 

[Grace Seeker]

What if he is like many young people I know who like to dabble in all sorts of different religions? Perhaps he is raised Christian, but really non-practicing. In college he becomes seriously interested in Judaism and converts. But a few years later, he then becomes just as seriously interested in Islam and converts to it. How would such a person be viewed by the Jewish community?

 

[rebelishaulman]

What if he is like many young people I know who like to dabble in all sorts of different religions? Perhaps he is raised Christian, but really non-practicing. In college he becomes seriously interested in Judaism and converts. But a few years later, he then becomes just as seriously interested in Islam and converts to it. How would such a person be viewed by the Jewish community?

If his intentions were to keep all the mitzvot in the Torah when he converted, he is Jewish. He can no longer change that. The person would be viewed at with obvious negative views because not only did the person convert to Judaism, but now, after undertaking the honor of keeping G-d's Torah completely the convert decides not to, the convert made a terrible choice.

To be a non-observant Jew is not good at all. Especially after you swear to keep G-d's law the Torah. The convert will not be looked at any harsher then a from birth Jew, who tries to leave Judaism. Regardless of what "scripture" a person decides to undertake he is always Jewish. It is a matter of if he is an observant Jew, or a non-observant Jew.

There is no such thing as a "Jewish born Muslim". He is labeled the same as any person who has decided to turn there back on the Torah. It is not relevant if he chose to follow a "quran" or a "science text book" when he chose not to be Torah observant.

 

[Grace Seeker]

So, I have a friend who was born Jewish. Both of her parents are practicing Jews, and she was until her late teens/young adulthood. At that time in her life she began to question some aspects of her faith and feel some emptiness. Eventually she came to the conclusion that she believed that Jesus was the promised Jewish Messiah. She has sense married a Christian, "joined" a church (in the way that Christian churches record membership), and her children are being raised primarily in the Christian community, but she still keeps all of the Jewish ritual observances such as Sabbovth, Passover, the non-eating of pork, etc. (and her family with her). She defines herself as a Messianic Jew, but does not want to have anything to do with groups like Jews for Jesus. From my perspective I see her as a Christian who simply values her own cultural history, but how would the Jewish community view her? (I know how her parents and grandparents do, they simply hurt and then try to move on without talking about it anymore than they have to.) And she is hurt when Christians ask her when she is going to give up being a Jew (by that they mean the rituals that she does keep), because she says that being a Jew is as much a part of her as her skin is.