Questions directed to atheists and agnostics only

[snakelegs]

Peace,


No offence to the non-muslims, but i find it very hard to believe non-muslims, its just after all that sinning you say how you wouldnt commit this sin and that sin, what value do your words have? Im sorry... i just feel that way

i don't claim to be a saint, but whatever makes you think that i am any bigger sinner than you are?
what you are saying is :never trust a non-muslim
that's your choice.

 

[wilberhum]

Peace,


No offence to the non-muslims, but i find it very hard to believe non-muslims, its just after all that sinning you say how you wouldnt commit this sin and that sin, what value do your words have? Im sorry... i just feel that way

No offence to the Muslims, but I find it very hard to believe Muslims, it’s just after all that sinning you say how you wouldn’t commit this sin and that sin, what value do your words have? I’m sorry... I just feel that way :? :?

 

[Skavau]

what stops you from harming any one else ??

I am answerable to the law and those who I love for my own actions. I do not believe in the action of harming any individual. It is an inherent evil. If I harm someone, I am infringing on their rights - thus inherently evil.

What makes you assume Atheists/Agnostics are more prone to harm others?

what stop you from stealing or killing others ?

See above.

is it the rules of law in your countries that make you don't do bad thing ?

See above.

what if you live on an island and there is no laws ,what will motivate you to not oppress any one else ?

The fact I don't agree with oppression. Stop assuming Atheism/Agnosticism = No Morals. They apply to anyone.

there must be a supreme creator that you know that you can never be more powerfull than he is , then this is the real deterrent for you and for every kind of mentality (or psyche)

Not for me, clearly. If you do not have the capacity to live a moral life without the fear of hell lying over your head - then you are a weak minded person and are more dangerous than any random Secular.

its like saying "what where you people thinking when you choose this way of life?"

Atheism and Agnosticism are not ways of life.

No offence to the non-muslims, but i find it very hard to believe non-muslims, its just after all that sinning you say how you wouldnt commit this sin and that sin, what value do your words have? Im sorry... i just feel that way

So you think we all inherently lie? You think there's an evil motive amongst us?

I sense that essentially all people in this thread, the muslims - have a weak understanding of what Atheism and Agnosticism entails. They are not ideologies, nor are they ways of life. They are merely two simple beliefs.

An Atheist does not accept the existence of a God/s. That is it. There is nothing else entailed along with that lifestyle. There is no Atheist Scripture other than the definition of Atheism itself. The same applies with Agnosticism, although the individual just says they do not know if a God exists or not.

Atheists are not inherently evil. We do not have the urge for evil and to your surprises, we are happy with our lives. These are all assumptions based on a lack of understanding of Atheism and I get tired of regurgitating these elementary points.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Peace,


clearly i have offended every one of you and i'd like to apologise. Please accept it and hear my explenation.


Due to the fact that you dont have a religion it feels that you rely on your own morals and values to restrict you to do good and keep away from evil. In this society of sex, drugs and rock and roll a man/woman is weak, they are easily seduced by the pleasures of the world and are very likely living with a materialistic mindset (house/wife/car possession/pride etc etc). Therefore when you dont have faith or God to help you to really fight your innerself and restrain yourself from sinning how is it that we can believe that your being honest?


im sorry, im sure many of you have values such as honesty etc and i pray that God guides you all, but you must admit, most without direction/guidance will do as they please... or am i being unfair?

 

[Skavau]

Peace,


clearly i have offended every one of you and i'd like to apologise. Please accept it and hear my explenation.

You've not offended me, it is just the fact I'm having to explain basic stuff that shouldn't need explaining.

Due to the fact that you dont have a religion it feels that you rely on your own morals and values to restrict you to do good and keep away from evil.

Not entirely, authority exists to uphold law and order. While I may lack a book to inform me of what absolute moral standards I should follow, it in no way means I am amoral. There are loads of ethical systems out there both secular and not secular.

In this society of sex, drugs and rock and roll a man/woman is weak, they are easily seduced by the pleasures of the world and are very likely living with a materialistic mindset (house/wife/car possession/pride etc etc).

Rock and Roll? More accurately awful Hip Hop everywhere. I myself am ready to admit that I live with a materialistic mindset, but that is not necessarily bad nor does it mean all I value is possessions. I do not value the necessity of an over-accumulation of cash, I only intend to drive for practicality. I find cars costly and dangerous. My possessions I value as so much as they assist me and provide entertainment.

Therefore when you dont have faith or God to help you to really fight your innerself and restrain yourself from sinning how is it that we can believe that your being honest? [/quote
But you see, you're only from the standpoint that: "Islam is true and that is that". I am from the standpoint that there is no correlation between greatness of faith and standard of morality. You shall have to define what you mean by 'sinning' though if you wish for a deeper answer.

im sorry, im sure many of you have values such as honesty etc and i pray that God guides you all, but you must admit, most without direction/guidance will do as they please... or am i being unfair?

You're being unfair.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

have some questions to the atheists and agnostics and i hope you all reply honestly and clearly


I want this question to be answered only by atheists and agnostics
Are you atheists and agnostics are happy in your lives ?
Okay, what is your main purpose in life (honestly) ?
You will say my purpose is to enjoy it ,so don’t you ever get bored?
Have you ever thought of committing suicide?
that's it for now and i am waiting to see your responses
and thanks in advance for answering

Hahahahahaha!

I enjoy life! My purpose is to help the world become better and remove violence! I am bored with your incorrect assumption! Of course not! Why would I, I don't believe in suicide bombings, nor am I a crazy person.

 

[Pygoscelis]

clearly i have offended every one of you and i'd like to apologise. Please accept it and hear my explenation.

Not offended. Just sad that people can be so misguided. What you are saying is about the equivalent of people saying that "muslims are terrorists". It is not necesarily malevolent. It is just misguided and ill informed.

this society of sex, drugs and rock and roll

Right here is part of your misconception. You see sex and rock and roll as sinful/bad. I don't. I see some but not all drugs as destructive. I have no moral qualms with moderate alcohol or marijuana use, though I don't personally partake in either.

So yes, I may engage in behaviour you would find sinful, but that doesn't mean I will engage in rape, murder, theft, dishonesty, etc. Because I too see those things as wrong. Your religious background is causing you to lump all "sinful" things into one category and you seem to be assuming that because people outside your background engage in some things you see as sinful they will engage in other thngs you see as sinful. This simply isn't so.

living with a materialistic mindset (house/wife/car possession/pride etc etc)

I suppose I am somewhat materialistic. I don't acquire things for the sake of acquiring them and I don't earn money to be rich. But I do like to have enough stuff to make me comfortable and entertained. Nothing wrong with that.

Therefore when you dont have faith or God to help you to really fight your innerself and restrain yourself from sinning how is it that we can believe that your being honest?

As I noted above, you are going to have to define sinning. I don't need a God to stop me from killing people, stealing, aggravating, abusing or generally making people feel bad. Empathy is enough.

Empathy is seeing yourself in others and feeling their pain. The part of your brain that feels pain is the same part that is activated when you see anoher in pain. So you are motivated not to cause others trouble/pain and to help them out of it when they are in it.

There is no need for God in this. God just complicates things.

most without direction/guidance will do as they please... or am i being unfair?

Most without direction/guidance WILL do as they please. I agree. But direction/guidance need not be religious, and "what people please" isn't often so bad. And being able to do it is what we call Freedom.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

The other atheists here have answered exactly as I would have, so there's no point in me repeating what they've said.

I'm not sure about this though:

I enjoy life! My purpose is to help the world become better and remove violence! I am bored with your incorrect assumption! Of course not! Why would I, I don't believe in suicide bombings, nor am I a crazy person.

Talking about suicide bombings like that looks like a similar assumption that has been made by some Muslims in this thread. "Atheists have no morals" is the same kind of thinking as "Muslims are suicide bombers", and crude and offensive generalisations like that have no place in serious discussion.

Unless I've had a sense of humour failure here and that was intended as a joke...

In which case, sorry.

Peace

 

[root]

Oh no, not the moral debate. Highly sociable animals (like humans and other species) acts acccording to both evolutionary inbuilt morals & social morality. Her is an interesting concept, see how you answer them?

You see a train heading down a track and 5 people are on the line, they are too far away to see or hear u. The train is going to hit them and kill em, OK you see that u can divert the train but by diverting the train you are making the train go down a line where 1 person is.......

Question 1
Do you divert the train, killing 1 person but saving 5 people........

After saying yes now imagine you cannot divert the train. However, a man is sitting on the railway bridge observing trains unaware of the peril these 5 people are in (a trainspotter).

Question 2
Do you throw the man off the bridge onto the line to derail the train saving 5 people

After saying no can you explain whu u are prepared to kill one person, but not prepared to kill one person if the circumstances change..........

Next..... U walk into a hospital, 5 terminally ill people who will die unless 1 gets a lung, the other kidneys, the other a heart and the other a liver. The final one needs a new bladder. U notice a guy coughing in the waiting room. He has a small flu.....

Question 3
Do u kill the healthy guy to save the lives of the other 5?

Matters not if u muslim, atheist, christian or even a tribe of men buried deep in the jungle never being exposed to any other society we all give the same replies,

seems we have morals irrespective of faith or background afterall.....

 

[snakelegs]

Peace,


clearly i have offended every one of you and i'd like to apologise. Please accept it and hear my explenation.


Due to the fact that you dont have a religion it feels that you rely on your own morals and values to restrict you to do good and keep away from evil. In this society of sex, drugs and rock and roll a man/woman is weak, they are easily seduced by the pleasures of the world and are very likely living with a materialistic mindset (house/wife/car possession/pride etc etc). Therefore when you dont have faith or God to help you to really fight your innerself and restrain yourself from sinning how is it that we can believe that your being honest?

i rely on my innate sense of not wanting to hurt others because i do not want to be hurt. pygo expressed this very well:
"Empathy is seeing yourself in others and feeling their pain. The part of your brain that feels pain is the same part that is activated when you see anoher in pain. So you are motivated not to cause others trouble/pain and to help them out of it when they are in it."
it is very possible that this innate sense comes from god.
i do not like many of the same things about mainstream culture that you dislike. in fact, we would probably agree on most of them.

im sorry, im sure many of you have values such as honesty etc and i pray that God guides you all, but you must admit, most without direction/guidance will do as they please... or am i being unfair?

obviously you as a religious person, would find it incomprehensible that there are other forms of guidance than religious - but as i said, it's entirely possible that this innate sense of values comes from god after all.

 

[Trumble]

In this society of sex, drugs and rock and roll a man/woman is weak, they are easily seduced by the pleasures of the world and are very likely living with a materialistic mindset (house/wife/car possession/pride etc etc).

Just to point out something else that should be obvious, in practice the vast majority of muslims and Christians share exactly that 'materialistic mindset' with the atheists and agnostics... even if they don't like rock music. Or at least if they don't share it, it is impossible to deduce same from their attitudes and behaviour.

I must admit the "atheist = no morals" attitude causes me some concern as it it has significant potential for creating ill-will and misunderstanding. There is simply no empirical evidence to support that atheists behave any less morally than theists when it comes to anything other than non-universal 'moral' aspects dictated by a particular religion such as, for example, attitudes to homosexuality or pre-marital sex. On the other hand, I think most atheists may find the question rather amusing; as they don't believe in God both Christian and Islamic morality could only come from one place - the same place theirs comes from, man. From that perspective the idea that they must somehow be less moral than theists is ridiculous.

 

[Grace Seeker]

you said i don't do anything to others that i wouldn't want them to do to me.

but this principle means that you know that there is a pay back
and i will ask you what if no one can harm you ,what if you where a president with a lot of guards ????.

then you can do whatever you want and you know that no one can get to you

So, does this mean that if we see a person behaving as if there is no payback, that such a person would not be a believer? I can certainly think of some leaders of countries (some supposedly Christian, some supposedly Jewish, some supposedly Muslim) that have acted as if they never expected payback for their actions. Does this mean that people such as Saddam Hussein were not true Muslims? That perhaps Bush is not a Christian?

I'm not trying to start a political debate; let's just keep this theological please.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Peace,


honestly im stunned!

how can one say:

Empathy is seeing yourself in others and feeling their pain. The part of your brain that feels pain is the same part that is activated when you see anoher in pain. So you are motivated not to cause others trouble/pain and to help them out of it when they are in it.

This clearly shows an intricate design in the creation of man, also the synch we require to co-exist as humanity, what a great sign of a creator.

but then i hear:

There is no need for God in this. God just complicates things.

Im sorry, i simply dont understand this...

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Just to point out something else that should be obvious, in practice the vast majority of muslims and Christians share exactly that 'materialistic mindset' with the atheists and agnostics... even if they don't like rock music. Or at least if they don't share it, it is impossible to deduce same from their attitudes and behaviour.

i Agree, but honestly most of thost muslims arent practising abstinence, at the same time those who are true to their faith wouldnt require material to be happy. One of the best things about islaam is contentment.

I must admit the "atheist = no morals" attitude causes me some concern as it it has significant potential for creating ill-will and misunderstanding. There is simply no empirical evidence to support that atheists behave any less morally than theists when it comes to anything other than non-universal 'moral' aspects dictated by a particular religion such as, for example, attitudes to homosexuality or pre-marital sex. On the other hand, I think most atheists may find the question rather amusing; as they don't believe in God both Christian and Islamic morality could only come from one place - the same place theirs comes from, man. From that perspective the idea that they must somehow be less moral than theists is ridiculous.

Ok allow me to rephrase myself one more time, without religion people simply wont find hazardous acts such as phornication/smoking/drinking as a big thing.


Am i wrong in saying that?

From what ive read about ur previous posts, you only find that which others mind to be wrong, but if they dont mind yet you know its harmful it wont bother you?

am i correct?

 

[Skavau]

This clearly shows an intricate design in the creation of man, also the synch we require to co-exist as humanity, what a great sign of a creator.

That's your perspective. Not mine or other Atheists.

Ok allow me to rephrase myself one more time, without religion people simply wont find hazardous acts such as phornication/smoking/drinking as a big thing.

I look at smoking and drinking with contempt. Fornication is none of my business.

 

[Hemoo]

snakelegs said (it's entirely possible that this innate sense of values comes from god after all.)

you know in Islam we say that ALLAH created humans and he made their instinct (in arabic named FITRA) to be as a way of measure to distinguish between whats right and whats wrong

so i found your statment pointing to this FITRA.

 

[Hemoo]

actually i have another new question

what was your religion (or your family's religion) before you leave it to be an athiest ?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

MashaAllah

Interesting Question.


And also if your parents were aethiests perhaps they had a religion before they left it?

 

[Skavau]

My Grandparents were moderately Christian, but they aren't religious anymore. I've never been religious.

 

[snakelegs]

snakelegs said (it's entirely possible that this innate sense of values comes from god after all.)

you know in Islam we say that ALLAH created humans and he made their instinct (in arabic named FITRA) to be as a way of measure to distinguish between whats right and whats wrong

so i found your statment pointing to this FITRA.

yes - it is fitra. our interpretations differ, but we agree on this basic quality.
see? we might not be as far apart as you think.