Questions for atheists about origin of universe

[Trumble]

Re: Question for atheists

I don't believe in any religion, but I do respect people that do I don't know if that makes me an Athiest, probably does....

Agnostic rather than athiest, I suspect.. as somebody said earlier that's probably true of most supposed 'atheists.

... but to me, I just don't understand how people can't think for themselves. I am kind to everyone and everything. I don't need to know why I am here, and where I will go when I die (even though I am scared to death of dieing cause I love my family and friends).

Personally, I don't there really needs to be any 'reason' we are here, we just are. The best way to think about it is that if there was no 'us', there would not even be a question; so perhaps just the question itself is the reason?

I don't understand why people follow restrictions from years ago, and try to put them into their life now. Times back then were so different to times now.. guess I am just rambling lol.. but honestly it just suprises me.

I just depends on the perspective you start with. Muslims, for example, believe that the Qur'an is quite literally the direct and final (until He decides otherwise, anyway) Word of God passed on to Mohammed by the Angel Gabriel. As such, with those restrictions coming from God Himself, man is not at liberty to change them. The teachings of the Qur'an apply to any age, although sometimes they need to be 'interpreted' to apply to things not mentioned specifically; man has the gift of reason for just that purpose.

If you believe the Qur'an to have come from God, you really can't logically view things any other way. If you don't, of course, you will think that its teachings, if adopted at all, she be adapted more freely and added to to account for changing circumstances. Even as a non muslim I'd say that's rather less than you might think, though. While technology has changed, people haven't much. Islam is pretty much unique in the way it integrates both religious and everyday matters; you can't split the religious and secular anywhere near as easily as you can with, say, Christianity as the Qur'an attempts to cover, pretty much, every aspect of how people should live.

 

[mysticalsilence]

Re: Question for atheists

The best way to think about it is that if there was no 'us', there would not even be a question; so perhaps just the question itself is the reason?

Thats exactly Why I believe God might have chosen not to be apparent directly!

Our whole existence and its reason is the question itself!

To me it has to be asked I cannot live without asking it everyday!

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Re: Question for atheists

I don't believe in any religion, but I do respect people that do I don't know if that makes me an Athiest, probably does, but to me, I just don't understand how people can't think for themselves. I am kind to everyone and everything. I don't need to know why I am here, and where I will go when I die (even though I am scared to death of dieing cause I love my family and friends). I don't understand why people follow restrictions from years ago, and try to put them into their life now. Times back then were so different to times now.. guess I am just rambling lol.. but honestly it just suprises me.

take care

As a former atheist I can understand that point of view. However I do disagree with your logic there. First of all, just because people chose to folow a certain doctrine or consider their own logic and intelligence inferior to their religion doesn't mean they can't and don't think for theirselves. As for following restrictions out of believe. People do it all the time. Following orders out of patriatism. Following rules out of respect for the law. Just think what people would do in order to protect their belief in freedom. Islam is timeless and following it's rules only has advantages. Just because they were revealed long time ago doesn't mean it's not aplicable anymore. In fact it seems illogical that we shoudl adapt religion to people's way of life rather then the other way around. The Qur'an was meant as a guideline. It only makes sense to follow that. But f course that requires belief first.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: Question for atheists

just because people chose to folow a certain doctrine or consider their own logic and intelligence inferior to their religion doesn't mean they can't and don't think for theirselves.

I think that is debatable.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Re: Question for atheists

I think that is debatable.

When you have your blood tested do you not rely on a doctor to interpret those results? Sure you can get a second opinion, and be critical about it, but in the end you acknowledge that in this area of expertise the doctor's knowledge is superior. And we do this all the time, relying on experts, that doesn't mean we're unable or unwilling to think for ourselves.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: Question for atheists

When you have your blood tested do you not rely on a doctor to interpret those results? Sure you can get a second opinion, and be critical about it, but in the end you acknowledge that in this area of expertise the doctor's knowledge is superior. And we do this all the time, relying on experts, that doesn't mean we're unable or unwilling to think for ourselves.

It does if you just accept what a single "expert" says as the Absolute Truth (tm) about everything.

There is no need for thought when you already have all the perfect answers.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Re: Question for atheists

you can go and get a second opinion, there's no harm in that, the Qur'an invites people to investigate and learn. But the thing is, to continue the metaphore, in the end Islam is the doctor that we find most credible, so we take his prescription.

 

[root]

Re: Question for atheists

in the end Islam is the doctor that we find most credible, so we take his prescription.

I think the "we" often hides those brought up in the faith and would question the validity of that statement.

As a former atheist I can understand that point of view.

The paradox being is that you still are an atheist. We all are to some degree, some more so than others dependent only on which god society offers and which one you choose to reject.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: Question for atheists

Yes root, as the old saying goes, "We are all atheists. I just believe in one less God than you do".

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Re: Question for atheists

The paradox being is that you still are an atheist. We all are to some degree, some more so than others dependent only on which god society offers and which one you choose to reject.

We all are an atheist to some degree? Really how's that? You're saying that in a way even believers believe that there is no God at some level? and just how are you able to tell what's in people's mind?

 

[Muhammad]

Re: Question for atheists

Greetings root,

I think the "we" often hides those brought up in the faith and would question the validity of that statement.

Everyone is welcomed to question the validity of that statement, whether they are born Muslims or otherwise.

3:190. Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.

4:82. Do they not then consider the Qur'ân carefully? Had it been from other than Allâh, they would surely have found therein much contradictions.

38:29. (This is) a Book (the Qur'ân) which We have sent down to you, full of blessings that they may ponder over its Verses, and that men of understanding may remember.

We all are to some degree, some more so than others dependent only on which god society offers and which one you choose to reject.

Conversely, it could be said that we are all believers to some degree, even if it is a belief in non-existence.

Peace .

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: Question for atheists

We all are an atheist to some degree? Really how's that? You're saying that in a way even believers believe that there is no God at some level? and just how are you able to tell what's in people's mind?

I'm not sure what he meant by it

What I meant was that we're all atheists with respect to the vast majority of Gods out there. Some of use just fail to dismiss that final God.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Re: Question for atheists

I'm not sure what he meant by it

What I meant was that we're all atheists with respect to the vast majority of Gods out there. Some of use just fail to dismiss that final God.

Not believing in some Gods doesn't make people atheistic. If that were so then Islam would be an atheistic religion as the testimony of faith claims: "there is no god worthy of praise safe for Allah". But by defenition atheism means not to believe in any gods. this is just a more sophisticated version of the well know argument: "People used to worship fire; that was stupid; religion is also a form of worship; therefor religion is stupid."
But as you can undoubtedly see that generalization is not necessarily true; let alone compelling.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: Question for atheists

Not believing in some Gods doesn't make people atheistic.

No, you're right. It doesn't. But it does give you a taste of atheist thought. We atheists feel the same about Allah as you feel about Zeus, etc.

this is just a more sophisticated version of the well know argument: "People used to worship fire; that was stupid; religion is also a form of worship; therefor religion is stupid."

I agree that this argument you are making and refuting isn't compelling. Religion isn't stupid because people used to worship fire. It is stupid for other reasons :giggling: Naw just kidding. It isn't stupid at all. If it was, then the majority of people in the world are stupid.