"Questions for Jehovah Witnesses"

[Hiroshi]

So to sum it up, it sounds as though JWs believe in one Almighty God. They pray to that God in the name of Jesus. That one God is Jehovah.

But they also believe that Jesus is a god. He is the Son of God but he is not God Almighty. They worship the one Almighty God but do not worship Jesus. Jesus is a Mediator between man and God Almighty.

Also, Jesus was crucified, but was not resurrected with a physical body, but a special kind of spirit body. He was Michael the Archangel before he was born in the flesh.

Is that correct?

Did I miss something?

Very good. But we do not believe that Jesus died on a cross (meaning of "crucifixion"). Judging from the original (Greek) language words "xylon" and "stauros", the instrument of his death was more likely an single upright stake, not two beams crossing at right angles.

 

[Hiroshi]

Does that mean that you can't pray to God directly, and have to go through a mediator, who is the second god?

Yes.

If so:

How can you go through the mediator without asking that mediator to mediate for you (which is a form of prayer in itself)?

I think it is fair to say that you can make an appeal to an authority without necessarily worshipping that authority. You might make an appeal to your government, for example, based on your own status as a citizen. Similarly, Christians acknowledge Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and can make appeal in his name for God to hear their prayers.

 

[Hiroshi]

Is God not Lord over everything? If not, does that mean that the God that you worship is not Lord over everything, but the god that you don't worship is?

Pharoah gave Joseph authority over everything in Egypt (except authority over Pharoah himself, of course). But that did not mean that Pharoah was no longer king in Egypt with absolute power over everyone. Similarly, God remains the absolute Lord over everything (including Jesus) but, as God is entitled to do, he has exalted Jesus over every other created being.

 

[Rabi Mansur]

Very good. But we do not believe that Jesus died on a cross (meaning of "crucifixion"). Judging from the original (Greek) language words "xylon" and "stauros", the instrument of his death was more likely an single upright stake, not two beams crossing at right angles.

Okay, so he was crucified on a stake not a cross. Hence, you don't wear crosses or put a cross on your church (Kingdom Hall).

 

[Rabi Mansur]

I am quite amazed at the similarities between the JW concept of God and the Mormon concept of God. They are not identical but very similar.

As a Mormon I was always confused about who I was really praying to, God the Father/Almighty or Jesus the Son of God? Since Jesus is the Mediator, are you praying to him to mediate between you and God Almighty, or are you praying to God Almighty and then asking Jesus to intervene on your behalf? Who are you really praying to under this scenario? And since in a sense Jesus had attained the level of a god, would it be good enough to just pray to him?

I was told to pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. I was told that I was really praying to the Father, God Almighty. But of course in my mind, there were two gods/Gods up there.

As a child, before I began to learn all the religious dogma, I always felt like God was God. There was simply One True God. Not Two, One.

 

[Rabi Mansur]

Sob7an Allah.. I was just reading about the greatest sin today and you summed it up above!

رب اغفر لي ولوالدي، رب ارحمهما كما ربياني صغيرا​

[FONT=&quot]عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مَسْعُودٍ رَضِيَ اللَّه عَنْهُ قَالَ: سَأَلْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ: أَيُّ الذَّنْبِ أَعْظَمُ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ؟ قَالَ: "أَنْ تَجْعَلَ لِلَّهِ نِدًّا وَهُوَ خَلَقَكَ". [FONT=&quot]أخرجه أحمد (1/434 ، رقم 4131) ، والبخاري (4/1626 ، رقم 4207) ، ومسلم (1/90 ، رقم 86) ، وأبو داود (2/294 ، رقم 2310) ، والترمذي (5/336 ، رقم 3182) ، والنسائي (7/89 ، رقم 4013).[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ندا: أي شريكا. قال العلامة عبد المحسن بن حمد العباد البدر في "شرح تطهير الإعتقاد": الشرك بالله عبادة غير الله معه، وهو أعظمُ ذنب عُصي الله به، وهو الذنب الذي لا يغفره الله، قال الله عزَّ وجلَّ: "إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاء" في آيتين من سورة النساء، وهو الذنب الذي يُخلَّد صاحبُه في النار أبد الآباد، ولا سبيل له للخروج منها وقد كثرت نصوص الكتاب والسنة في النهي عن الشرك والتحذير منه وبيان خطره، بل جاءت النصوص في سدِّ الذرائع التي تؤدِّي إليه، من ذلك البناء على القبور وتعظيمها واتِّخاذها مساجد، وقد تواترت الأحاديث في ذلك عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال ابن القيم رحمه الله في كتابه إعلام الموقعين (3/151) في الوجوه التسعة والتسعين التي أوردها في سدِّ الذرائع قال: ((الوجه الثالث عشر: أنَّ النَّبيَّّ صلى الله عليه وسلم نهى عن بناء المساجد على القبور ولَعَن مَن فعل ذلك، ونهى عن تجصيص القبور وتشريفها واتِّخاذها مساجد، وعن الصلاة إليها وعندها، وعن إيقاد المصابيح عليها، وأمر بتسويتها، ونهى عن اتِّخاذها عيداً، وعن شدِّ الرحال إليها؛ لئلاَّ يكون ذلك ذريعةً إلى اتِّخاذها أوثاناً والإشراك بها، وحرم ذلك على مَن قصده ومن لم يقصده، بل قصد خلافه سدًّا للذريعة))[/FONT][/FONT]

Yep, that pretty much meets the definition of Shirk in Islam.

:wa:

 

[IAmZamzam]

Pharoah gave Joseph authority over everything in Egypt (except authority over Pharoah himself, of course). But that did not mean that Pharoah was no longer king in Egypt with absolute power over everyone. Similarly, God remains the absolute Lord over everything (including Jesus) but, as God is entitled to do, he has exalted Jesus over every other created being.

So he's some kind of viceroy or regent? What's the point of this arrangement? And what practical difference does it make?

 

[Hiroshi]

So he's some kind of viceroy or regent? What's the point of this arrangement? And what practical difference does it make?

Jesus is the king. He will reign over the earth for 1,000 years. (Psalms 2:6-8; Revelation 20:4). Wouldn't you be happy to be ruled over by a king who cares for you so much that he was willing to die for you?

 

[Hiroshi]

I am quite amazed at the similarities between the JW concept of God and the Mormon concept of God. They are not identical but very similar.

As a Mormon I was always confused about who I was really praying to, God the Father/Almighty or Jesus the Son of God? Since Jesus is the Mediator, are you praying to him to mediate between you and God Almighty, or are you praying to God Almighty and then asking Jesus to intervene on your behalf? Who are you really praying to under this scenario? And since in a sense Jesus had attained the level of a god, would it be good enough to just pray to him?

I was told to pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. I was told that I was really praying to the Father, God Almighty. But of course in my mind, there were two gods/Gods up there.

As a child, before I began to learn all the religious dogma, I always felt like God was God. There was simply One True God. Not Two, One.

In John 14:13-14 Jesus instructs his followers to pray to God in Jesus' name. So we follow that direction. We address God in prayer but appeal also that he hears us in Jesus' name. Romans 3:25-26 shows that God was even forgiving sins in the past on the basis of Jesus' ransom sacrifice that would eventually be made. After God had promised and prophesied about Jesus' sacrifice (in Genesis 3:15) it became a certainty and a basis upon which God could then have dealings with imperfect sinful mankind.

 

[Ramadhan]

Jesus is the king. He will reign over the earth for 1,000 years. (Psalms 2:6-8; Revelation 20:4).

What happens after 1,000 years?

 

[Grace Seeker]

The word in question in the Greek is "proskuneo" as for example in Matthew 2:8 where King Herod declares (according to the NIV and many other versions) that he will go and worship the baby Jesus. Did people in the king's court understand the trinity doctrine? Did they understand Herod to be saying that he intended to go and worship God? Of course not!

The sense in this verse is in reference to an act of obeisance to one who will be king: Jesus. "Proskuneo" here does not mean religious worship. But in other contexts it does.

First, you admit that it does indeed mean religious worship in other contexts. Indeed, when we read Revelation where it is used more than any other time in the NT, it always means to worship. When else does it mean religious worship? I propose that it also does when Matthew uses it with reference to the disciples worshipping Jesus in Matthew 28.

As to what Herod meant, I am not able to read his mind. But I believe that there is every reason for those around him to have heard it as expressing an intent to engage in religious worship, and on hearing it to see it as just another of Herod's many lies.

God has made Jesus to be Lord over everything. We must acknowledge that.

I'm wondering if you mean the same thing by that statement that the early church did when they declared: "Jesus is Lord" (Acts 10:36, Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 12:3, Philippians 2:11, Revelation 17:14)?

Hopefully you'll address that as part of your response to Insaanah's question:

Is God not Lord over everything?

 

[Hiroshi]

What happens after 1,000 years?

Humankind will have been restored to perfection. All trace of inherited sin from Adam will have been eliminated. Satan and the demons will have been imprisoned all of this time.

Then Revelation 20:7-9 says: "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them."

Satan launches a final attack and all who side with him are destroyed. Satan himself is also destroyed. Then all of God's enemies will be gone and there will never be rebellion against him again.

1 Corinthians 15:24 says: "Then the end will come, when he [Jesus] hands over the kingdom to God the Father". When Jesus' work is done he hands the kingdom back to God.

 

[Hiroshi]

First, you admit that it does indeed mean religious worship in other contexts. Indeed, when we read Revelation where it is used more than any other time in the NT, it always means to worship. When else does it mean religious worship? I propose that it also does when Matthew uses it with reference to the disciples worshipping Jesus in Matthew 28.

As to what Herod meant, I am not able to read his mind. But I believe that there is every reason for those around him to have heard it as expressing an intent to engage in religious worship, and on hearing it to see it as just another of Herod's many lies.

Many, many times in the gospels we read that someone fell down and "worshipped" Jesus. Usually this would be someone who had very little knowledge about Jesus himself other than the fact that he could work miracles and could perhaps help with their illness or distress. It is quite unreasonable to assume that all of these people believed Jesus to be God in person. This was many centuries before the trinity doctrine was even formulated.

 

[Hiroshi]

I'm wondering if you mean the same thing by that statement that the early church did when they declared: "Jesus is Lord" (Acts 10:36, Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 12:3, Philippians 2:11, Revelation 17:14)?

Hopefully you'll address that as part of your response to Insaanah's question:

Is God not Lord over everything?

Matthew 28:18 says: "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”" Why would God need to have authority given to him? The fact that God exalts Jesus as Lord with authority in heaven and on earth proves that Jesus is not God himself.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Hmmmm. Interesting point. I'm not sure I can jump to the conclusion you imply, but I can see how you would get there. Thanks for continuing to share your own understandings with us.

 

[Rabi Mansur]

Matthew 28:18 says: "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”" Why would God need to have authority given to him? The fact that God exalts Jesus as Lord with authority in heaven and on earth proves that Jesus is not God himself.

Your point is similar to what a Mormon would say. I suppose that a mainstream Christian would argue that the authority (power) is the same as what he had with the Father in the beginning. It was simply a return to what he already had as God.

These bible verses can be read in various ways and I doubt that anyone here will be swayed away from what they already believe by this discussion.

Can I ask you another question as a Jehovah Witness? Who leads the JW church?

This is a question that has always bothered me. It is my understanding that there is a committee of men that make all the decisions for the church. These men make the final decision on doctrine, decide what is taught in the churches, etc. My question is how are these men given such authority? I mean, where did they get their authority? How do you become one of these people?

It is eerily similar to the Mormon concept of 12 apostles and a first presidency. In mormonism there is a group of roughly 15 men who are the ultimate authorities for the church and they claim to represent Jesus Christ here on earth (I know it sounds ridiculous-and it is IMO).

How do the JW committee of experts justify their power? How are they called? What is the deal with them?

Thanks.

 

[Ramadhan]

Humankind will have been restored to perfection. All trace of inherited sin from Adam will have been eliminated. Satan and the demons will have been imprisoned all of this time.

But hasn't jesus already paid off the inherited sin from Adam through his death?
it wasn't enough?

1 Corinthians 15:24 says: "Then the end will come, when he [Jesus] hands over the kingdom to God the Father". When Jesus' work is done he hands the kingdom back to God.

so, for a thousand years basically jesus borrowed the kingdom from God, is that what you are saying?
will there be a handover ceremony?
is this kingdom the paradise?

 

[Hiroshi]

But hasn't jesus already paid off the inherited sin from Adam through his death?
it wasn't enough?

Yes Jesus has "paid off" the penalty for their sins but he hasn't stopped them from sinning. Learning not to sin takes them 1,000 years.

so, for a thousand years basically jesus borrowed the kingdom from God, is that what you are saying?
will there be a handover ceremony?

Looks like that.

is this kingdom the paradise?

Yes. Although some of mankind go to heaven to be with Jesus and to rule with him as kings and priests over the earth. And their dwelling place in heaven is also called a paradise.

 

[Hiroshi]

Can I ask you another question as a Jehovah Witness? Who leads the JW church?

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society must have a president for legal reasons. But in practice, the president is only one member of the governing body who are organising the work of Jehovah's Witnesses today, directed, we believe, by God. We try to follow the same pattern as the arrangement described in the Bible in, for example, Acts chapter 15. There a governing body of spiritually qualified men undertook prayer and study to take the lead and to resolve important disputes such as whether circumcision should be required.

We look to Christ as our leader.

 

[Grace Seeker]

And now a series of questions:

We try to follow the same pattern as the arrangement described in the Bible in, for example, Acts chapter 15. There a governing body of spiritually qualified men undertook prayer and study to take the lead and to resolve important disputes such as whether circumcision should be required.

Do JWs believe that circumcision was ever required of God's people?
Do JWs believe that circumcision is now required of God's people?

If the answer is not the same to both questions, please, account for the change.