Questions for learned Muslims

[Rabi Mansur]

Show us what Jesus(as) actually said in Aramaic and give us a direct Translation of it into English, without going through Greek and Latin.

I would be very interested in what he comes up with. There seems to be a world of difference between Aramaic and Koine Greek.

:wa:

 

[Woodrow]

Greetings, I have indeed spoken to my friend and have been informed that ALL the Gospels were first written in greek.

Greetings and Peace

I agree, the Gospels were written in Koine Greek. In fact Koine Greek is also called Biblical Greek and New Testement Greek. It was the Vulgate Greek and became the lingua franca of early Christians although the Greek of the educated populace and used by them for important or valued writing was in the Attic Greek from Attica(Athens). While Greek would have been understood by many of the people in the region of Jerusalem the common spoken language was Aramaic until at least 200 AD. Latin would have been the second most commonly spoken language after Aramaic as the region was under Roman Rule.

The use of Greek in the Gospels seems to be an indication they were either the result of Greek beliefs into Christianity or they were written specifically for a Greek speaking population. To think Isa(as) "Jesus" spoke Koine Greek seems to be as far off reality as believing he spoke the Elizabethian English of the KJV.

However the queotes I gave above taken together in context as far as I am concerned amount to a clear understanding that was talking about the Holy Spirit,

My reply above is why I believe they came more from Greek Mythology than from the teachings of Isa(as). The concept of a Holy Spirit is very much Ancient Greek and bears resemblance to AMPHIARAOS (or Amphiaraus) after he became a spirit.

AMPHIARAOS who after being swallowed up by the Earth during the battle of the 7 against Thebes, returned as a spirit and filled men with the god Zeus.

I would also love to know what books of all the BIble are not taken as credible by Learned Muslims

Peace to you all

And Peace to you and all of mankind,

You will find some differences of opinion by different scholars. Some will state that none have any credibility. Others will state that some possibly most contain some of Allaah(swt)'s words. Although from what I personally believe and see from scholars is that the OT does have a lot of truth. But it was for a specific people at a specific time. Much of it has been completed or does not pertain. There are also some fallacies or mistranslation in much of the OT and it is difficult if not impossible to separate Allaah(swt)'s actual commands from what was added or changed or deleted.

None of the Books of the NT are the word of God(swt) all are opinions of alleged witnesses. It is possible (I think probable) that at least some of the quotes attributed to Jesus(as) are translations of what he said, but they are not his Actual words.

 

[freethinking]

Thats a real shame as itr means peoplle can pick and choose what they like to suit them whereas I believe God can protect the integrity of His words.

The dead sea scrolls certainly support great tracts of the old testement and even allude to the debate betwen Peter and Paul in the new testament.

I have read that the book of Isaiah in particualr is virtually identical to the modern Bibles and Daniel too only ever so slightly different in about 0/01 % of words styisticlly ony, and as they go back beyond Jeus time this to me is greatly significant indeed.
Isaiah foretell of Jesus ministry indeed for me
I will habe a new question for you soon but interested in your response to this.
Thank you so much for your help
God Bless you

 

[جوري]

Thats a real shame as itr means peoplle can pick and choose what they like to suit them whereas I believe God can protect the integrity of His words.

Does that apply to you, for instance as you have demonstrated on the other thread alleging said verses are written of the previous religions when clearly they are not!

The dead sea scrolls certainly support great tracts of the old testement and even allude to the debate betwen Peter and Paul in the new testament.

Really do share!

I have read that the book of Isaiah in particualr is virtually identical to the modern Bibles and Daniel too only ever so slightly different in about 0/01 % of words styisticlly ony, and as they go back beyond Jeus time this to me is greatly significant indeed.
Isaiah foretell of Jesus ministry indeed for me
I will habe a new question for you soon but interested in your response to this.
Thank you so much for your help
God Bless you

We are glad your books are supportive of each other if in fact there is any truth to that, it still doesn't change the fact of the matter.. Jesus as a prophet was only sent to the Jews ...

New International Version (©1984)
He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." New Living Translation (©2007)
Then Jesus said to the woman, "I was sent only to help God's lost sheep--the people of Israel."
English Standard Version (©2001)
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
International Standard Version (©2008)
But he replied, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel."
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus responded, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel."
King James Bible
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
American King James Version
But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
American Standard Version
But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Bible in Basic English
But he made answer and said, I was sent only to the wandering sheep of the house of Israel.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And he answering, said: I was not sent but to the sheep that are lost of the house of Israel.
Darby Bible Translation
But he answering said, I have not been sent save to the lost sheep of Israel's house.
English Revised Version
But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Webster's Bible Translation
But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Weymouth New Testament
"I have only been sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel," He replied.
World English Bible
But he answered, "I wasn't sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Young's Literal Translation
and he answering said, 'I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'

since your bible retained its 'textual integrity' and verity, we have no choice but to accept the above as a fact.. his minstery was no different than those messengers sent before him, to a select few tribes..

we have already responded to this before.. it would perhaps to read the responses in lieu of desiring responses that cater to your whims?

all the best

 

[Woodrow]

Thats a real shame as itr means peoplle can pick and choose what they like to suit them whereas I believe God can protect the integrity of His words.

I see it as meaning we as individuals are responsible to verify the truth of what we read and not accept it as truth because the council of Nicea said it was true and than suppressed any contradicting writings of the era and called them gnostic. Why were those specific books selected to be the truth and others by equally reliable contemporary authors get destroyed or hidden? Who is responsible for your finding the truth, you or the councils of the early Christian Councils?

The dead sea scrolls certainly support great tracts of the old testement and even allude to the debate betwen Peter and Paul in the new testament.

You may want to research more about the Essenes (Probable authors of the scrolls) before deciding if they support Christianity. The Essenes were a break away Secretive Judaic sect and were considered heretic by both Jews and Early Christians.

I have read that the book of Isaiah in particualr is virtually identical to the modern Bibles and Daniel too only ever so slightly different in about 0/01 % of words styisticlly ony, and as they go back beyond Jeus time this to me is greatly significant indeed.
Isaiah foretell of Jesus ministry indeed for me

See my answer above.

I will habe a new question for you soon but interested in your response to this.
Thank you so much for your help
God Bless you

Peace,

I will answer to the best of my ability. I may disagree with you, I believe it is possible for people to disagree and remain peaceful towards each other.

 

[freethinking]

I see it as meaning we as individuals are responsible to verify the truth of what we read and not accept it as truth because the council of Nicea said it was true and than suppressed any contradicting writings of the era and called them gnostic. Why were those specific books selected to be the truth and others by equally reliable contemporary authors get destroyed or hidden? Who is responsible for your finding the truth, you or the councils of the early Christian Councils?
Blessings to you Woodrow, I echo your agreeable thoughts verily.
God is of course responsible for me finding the truth and this is for me much more of a supernatural (i.e spiritual revelation)journey than it is through simply reading the words of scripture and expecting to understand them like any human academic book.
Furthermore my understanding of the Gnostic Gospels is that they were written significantly later than the cannonical Gospels and that some of the Gnostics were Jewish people, yet not Genuine Christians. I do however take the apocrypha into account and endeavour to read these too. They are therefore not denied to me



You may want to research more about the Essenes (Probable authors of the scrolls) before deciding if they support Christianity. The Essenes were a break away Secretive Judaic sect and were considered heretic by both Jews and Early Christians.
Indeed but not by ALL Christians, The Essenes were a strict Torah observant, Messianic, apocalyptic, Baptist, wilderness, new covenant Jewish sect. They were led by a priest they called the "Teacher of Righteousness," who was opposed and possibly killed by the establishment priesthood in Jerusalem






See my answer above.
Regardless of who wrote the scrolls, in any case they do indeed cover at least parts of every book in the OT accept the Book of Esther.
and many of the significant propecies which cocern Jesus and chime with what is recoded in the NT profoundly, ask Our Father if you do not believe me.






Peace,

I will answer to the best of my ability. I may disagree with you, I believe it is possible for people to disagree and remain peaceful towards each other.

Thank you again, it is a ral pleasure for me to grow in understanding through the peaceful exchange of understandings and non offensive debate.
MAY THE LORD bLESS YOU