Quran is corrupt , please help me refute

[Trumble]

We were talking about books other than Qur'an that have been preserved word by word exactly as written and given such importance as Qur'an was given.

Who said anything about "given such importance as Qur'an was given"?!

 

[vpb]

Who said anything about "given such importance as Qur'an was given"?!

in order something to be preserved it needs to be given importance, otherwise people will mess with it.

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


These links may be useful inshaa Allaah:

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/1245-quran-changed-usman-r.html


Was the Qur'an compiled from previously revealed scriptures?
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...Misconceptions

 

[MuhammadRizan]

Why? The works of Plato or Aristotle, say, are nearly a thousand years older than the Qur'an and they have no "contradictions and discrepancies", at least of the sort you mean. They weren't written by Allah. Avoiding contradiction and discrepancy doesn't need God, just a little care.

are Plato and Aristotle works Discuss just one topic in their books?or several topics in one book or several topics in several book?

as we know Quran discuss various topics in one books, and some verse contain several topics.

"Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy" (Surah: An-Nisa 4:82)

Since Quran is talking about the way of life as a muslim, lessons from the past ,hereafter life, etc etc...we cannot compare it to phone book, or science book.

Surely we cannot accept Phonebook as guide for us to get a better life:hiding:

this verse is encouraging us to compare Quran with other religous scripture.

:thankyou:

 

[Zman]

Originally Posted by someguy

All this talk of corruptible texts. The fact is they all have undergone changes. It doesn't matter which one one looks at this is the case and that includes the Quran.

These alleged "changes" doesn't mean that the Qur'an has indeed been corrupted.

One glaring example is the translations of the Qur'an from Arabic to other languages. For example into English. When translating, sometimes the exact words in Arabic do not have an English counterpart, therefore, the translation is not precise.

That would lead us to conclude that the English version is not the Qur'an, but a translation of the Qur'an.

The fact that the earliest quranic inscriptions on the dome of the rock(80 odd years after Mohammeds reported death) differ from the texts of today is proof enough.

He needs to provide you with the Ayat and the links he got them from, to backup his claim.

The addition of diacritical dots to the Arabic texts is another issue.

I believe that the Qur'an was already being read in different dialects, during the time when the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was still alive

I think that the dots were added so that later generations would have a guide on how to prounce it, because the First Generation of the Sahabah (RA) were excellent in memorization.

The earliest extant Quran is written in a style from a period many hundreds of years after the chronology attributed to Mohammed. Etc etc.

That's incorrect. The Qur'an was complied in documented format, after the death of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), by one of the 4 Rightly Guided Caliphs.

The primary difference is how the Quran is regarded by it's followers nowadays when compared to the Gospels/Bible/Torah. It is the start and end point. This was not always the case but the Gospels/Bible/Torah have been subjected to far greater historical and theological analysis than the Quran has ever been. That continues today.

There's a big difference between "studying" the Bible, and actually "Altering" it's text, from the original version. Adding/dropping some words, changing words to remain in the confines of "political correctness" of modern times.

The Quran has obviously been studied and studied intensely, but the start point is the infallibility of same not it's origin. That is not questioned by Quranic scholars.

Like he said, Muslim scholars intensely studied and analysed the Qur'an, and it therefore remained as it was intoduced to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) during its Revelation by the Angel Gabrial (AS).

The reason it wasn't "altrered" is due to it being perfect and beyond corruption. Also, this is where faith & belief in God's word and the integrity and honesty of the Prophet Muhammad Passing down God's word, unchanged.

Many outside researchers have found different voices in the texts, inconsistencies and historical innacuracies.

Well, that's on the "Outside scholars." If Muslims scholars through 1400 years of study saw it fit not to change the original text and believed that the information contained within the Qur'an is correct, "outside" scholars views don't really bear any weight on the matter

It is the "outside scholars" who are trying to alter & corrupt the Holy Qur'an, in order to mislead Muslims.

Mecca not being mentioned at all before the Islamic texts, yet those same texts claim it was a very important centre of trade(the Greeks and others make no mention of it until much later after Islam starts to make it's presence felt in the region).

History is always written by the victors.

I'm sure historical events are taught differently in the West than the East.

Also, within the West, different educational systems teach historical events differently.

And, due to historical events undergoing a constant change/updates, new "discovereis" constantly lead to additions/subtractions on a regular basis.

Even science, according to humans isn't perfect. What was held as being undisputed fact, 20 to 30 years down the road, is then proven incorrect.

The difficulty also comes from the lack of secondary texts that exist from the time when compared to the other texts.

Secondary texts? His statement proves that the Quran's wasn't altered, since the first text remains as is.

We have the Qur'an and Hadith. They have been sufficient, complimentary and a great guide to the Muslim Ummah, for over 1400 years...

Indeed a lack of historical data from neighbouring cultures is unusual, given the importance placed by Islamic sources of the movement.

Apparently, he hasn't read all the historical data from neighboring cultures.

Also, if Muslims were to present what neighboring cultures attested to in those day, non-Muslims will continue to cast doubt on its veracity.

Apparently, their aim is to plant the seeds of doubt in our minds, and keep us in that loop, permanently...

 

[The_Prince]

theres nothing to refute, he brought up no real valid points, heck he doesnt even quote anything for you, just his opinion.

 

[vpb]

heck he doesnt even quote anything for you, just his opinion

as most of non-muslims do.

 

[shamas]

if thats the case y is the quran proovin the science right many people just converting to islam by just readin listening to the quran and allah SWT said i promise to protect this book from corruptancy

 

[thirdwatch512]

they had found some manuscripts in yemen in the 70's that are extremely different from the quran today. if you do a little googling you can find some pics of the arabic text compared to that of it today.

as a Christian, i would immedately(and still do) think that the quran is corrupt, because it's different then what it used to be.

BUT, perhaps maybe the person who wrote it just made some mistakes?when you record something, you are always liable of messing up here or there.

now concerning contradictions.. ohh please.

the quran is shorter then the New Testament. it is a very very short book. and so yeah, it's not a huge surprise that there are not a lot of contradictions. the NT has many different authors.. because many people knew Jesus and were inspired by the Holy Spirit. and it has 0 contradictions. of course some muslims will say "yes it does" but with just a little context looking and such, there really is no contradictions. and muslims obviously don't take the Nt as being from God, because it is supposingly corrupt.

also, go look into the buddhist texts.. find me a signle contradiction in buddhist writings! or baha'i, especially. if you add up the baha'i writings, there are over 95 times that of the quran. and so far, people have only found 3 contradictions, and they really are not conradictions!

or open up a harry potter book.. harry potter books are prolly 3 or 4 times the size of quran (usually just a little smaller then Bible)... find me some contradictions! go ahead, look!

it is no surprise what so ever that there are no contradictions in the quran. not a surprise.

 

[DAWUD_adnan]

You should concider this, NO ONE can make a book the likeness of the Quran in ELOQUENCE and STYLE without contradictions, off course even i can make a children book without contradictions, Trumble and that other guy, please read the verse CORRECTLY. Peace!

 

[Malaikah]

Harry Potter- that jerky Slytherin character was in his last year of Hogwarts in one of the books (was it book 2?) and yet was still a student in the next book. I think it was the captain of the sport team.

When asked about this, Rowling didn't realise she has made the mistake, laughed it off and joking pretended that he had failed the year.

And how many people proof read Harry Potter? lol no one proof read the Quran, since it was revealed bit by bit.

And that right there would be why I don't take my information about Islam from thirdwatch512.

 

[Malaikah]

they had found some manuscripts in yemen in the 70's that are extremely different from the quran today. if you do a little googling you can find some pics of the arabic text compared to that of it today.

as a Christian, i would immedately(and still do) think that the quran is corrupt, because it's different then what it used to be.

This is absolute rubbish. How does some Quran found in some place in Yemen, with an unknown author and history, prove that the Quran is changed? Or is that the best proof you have?

Your objectiveness truly shines through. :rollseyes

the quran is shorter then the New Testament. it is a very very short book. and so yeah, it's not a huge surprise that there are not a lot of contradictions. the NT has many different authors.. because many people knew Jesus and were inspired by the Holy Spirit. and it has 0 contradictions. of course some muslims will say "yes it does" but with just a little context looking and such, there really is no contradictions. and muslims obviously don't take the Nt as being from God, because it is supposingly corrupt.

What double standards! So the bible deserves the benefit of the doubt, and "context looking and such", and yet the Quran is not offered such privilege.

 

[vpb]

they had found some manuscripts in yemen in the 70's that are extremely different from the quran today. if you do a little googling you can find some pics of the arabic text compared to that of it today.

did u add that part 'extremely different' ??? hahahah
please read http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/
before you make such claims.

also I would suggest to read on this thread, since your claim has been made long time before u.
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/1965-variant-korans.html

as a Christian, i would immedately(and still do) think that the quran is corrupt, because it's different then what it used to be.

ok let's rearrange the statement, how about this,
"as an Ignorant, i would immedately(and still do) think that the quran is corrupt, because it's different then what it used to be."



You don't know about the history of Qur'an, and the different dialects it was revealed, that's why it looks corrupted to you when in fact it's not. again I am recommending u to read on the two above links

BUT, perhaps maybe the person who wrote it just made some mistakes?when you record something, you are always liable of messing up here or there.

what book are u talking here about? the bible?

the quran is shorter then the New Testament. it is a very very short book. and so yeah, it's not a huge surprise that there are not a lot of contradictions. the NT has many different authors.. because many people knew Jesus and were inspired by the Holy Spirit. and it has 0 contradictions. of course some muslims will say "yes it does" but with just a little context looking and such, there really is no contradictions. and muslims obviously don't take the Nt as being from God, because it is supposingly corrupt.

first, Qur'an is a 600 pages, now does that give you an excuse to say "there is no contradiction" ?????????
second,
even if the book is 10000 pages, from God , it should not have contradictions.
third, bible of course has contradictions cuz it was written by humans.
fourth, Qur'an is 600 pages, but what it holds inside, not all the books of the world would equal it.

18:109. Say: "If the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out) the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted than would the words of my Lord, even if we added another ocean like it, for its aid."

also, go look into the buddhist texts.. find me a signle contradiction in buddhist writings! or baha'i, especially. if you add up the baha'i writings, there are over 95 times that of the quran. and so far, people have only found 3 contradictions, and they really are not conradictions!

let that book be popular as Bible and Qur'an is, and we would see how good it is .

or open up a harry potter book.. harry potter books are prolly 3 or 4 times the size of quran (usually just a little smaller then Bible)... find me some contradictions! go ahead, look!

what is harry potter? a kid book?
sci-fi??? which is just read by people??
let the people study it , and we shall see what's inside, even it is just sci-fi.

it is no surprise what so ever that there are no contradictions in the quran. not a surprise.

Yes , bc Allah swt sent it,

4:82. Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.



so, you know that Qur'an doesn't have any contradictions, but you are giving yourself an excuse for it.



2:23. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
2:24. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

 

[thirdwatch512]

malaikah - ok wow, there is one contradiction in the harry potter books.

JK rowling also did not have 23 years and have the advantage of abrogation, and her books, if put together, are prolly 25 times the size of the quran. and one mistake is all you can come up with? what a joke.

here, you want me to show you a few quranic errors?

The Quran confuses Mary (Miriam) the prophet who was the sister of Haron (Aaron) and Moses, and Mary the mother of Jesus without regard for six hundred year time lapse between their existence. When a tribe of the Najran Christians told Mohamed's followers of this mistake, Mohamed replied that people often named their sons after the names of the ancient prophets; therefore, the Aaron mentioned in this verse is not the brother of Moses but another Aaron. Mohamed believed Mary the mother of Jesus had a brother named Aaron. However, the Quran is also mistaken about the name of Mary's father. Surah 66:12 says that her father's name was Imran (Amram), the same name as the father of Moses. (see Exodus 6:20) This is an unbelievable concidence that Mary's father and brother would both be named after the father and son in the family of Moses. Islamic scholars tried to explain that "the sister of Haron (Aaron)" meant "his sister in faith" in other words not indicating a physical familial relation. However, this verse mentions the father, the mother and the brother so the verse in indeed denoting family relationship.
Mariam:28

The Quran claims that the calf worshipped by the Children of Israel in the wilderness during time of Moses was made for them by a Samaritan. However, Samaria, from which this man supposedly came, was not built until hundreds of year after the time of Moses. Moses came in late 13th Century B.C. while the region of Samaria was formed in the 9th Century B.C. The Biblical account of this incident makes no mention of a Samaritan. (see Exodus 32)
taha 85-88
^^ GRAVE mistake. mohammad got the Blessed Mother mixed up with a different Mary from the OT. there are HUNDREDS of years differences between them.

Quranic interpreters agree that the person who argued with Abraham was Nimrod son of Canaan. However, there were twelve generations between Abraham and Noah (see Luke 3:34-36) and four generations between Nimrod and Noah (see Genesis 10:1-8). How could this argument have occurred when the Nimrod lived and died 300 years before Abraham?
Error found in al barqara 258

Confusing Noahs flood with Moses and the plagues
It is known that God punished the Egyptians using Moses by striking them with ten plagues: blood, frogs, lice, flies, the death of livestock, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and the death of their first born sons. Flood was not one of the plagues. (see Exodus 7-11)
al araf 133

The story of the men sleeping in the cave for "a number of years" is derived from a myth invented by early Christians. It is known as the story of "The Seven Sleepers" which recounts the tale of seven young Christian men who hid in a cave to escape the persecution of the Roman Emperor Decius. They miraculously slept in the cave for 300 years. When they woke up they were astonished at the changes in the world that had happened overnight. The Emperor was now Theodosius who was a Christian. This story can be found in a Latin book called "The Glory of the Martyrs" composed by Gregory of Tours who revived the ancient myth to show his people the ability of God who is above all things. In modern times this story is widely recognized as fictional and is used in Europe to entertain children.
al khaf 8-26

The Quran describes Ishmael as a messenger and a prophet. For whom was Ishmael a prophet? What was his message? The Quran does not offer any explanations or details. The Bible does not declare Ishmael a prophet, instead it is recorded in Genesis that: "He shall be a wild man; His hand shall be against every man. And every man's hand against him." (see Genesis 16:12)
marayam 24

want some more? lol

 

[Malaikah]

Here check out this link, shows heaps of the mistakes in the harry potter books:

http://www.mugglenet.com/books/mistakes/index.shtml

 

[thirdwatch512]

once again, when you prove my EXAMPLE wrong, you all of a sudden think that you are right. LOL. this is not the first time you have done that.

 

[Malaikah]

malaikah - ok wow, there is one contradiction in the harry potter books.

JK rowling also did not have 23 years and have the advantage of abrogation, and her books, if put together, are prolly 25 times the size of the quran. and one mistake is all you can come up with? what a joke.

Jokes is on you: http://www.mugglenet.com/books/mistakes/index.shtml

That should keep you busy for a long time.

The Quran confuses Mary (Miriam) the prophet who was the sister of Haron (Aaron) and Moses, and Mary the mother of Jesus without regard for six hundred year time lapse between their existence. When a tribe of the Najran Christians told Mohamed's followers of this mistake, Mohamed replied that people often named their sons after the names of the ancient prophets; therefore, the Aaron mentioned in this verse is not the brother of Moses but another Aaron. Mohamed believed Mary the mother of Jesus had a brother named Aaron. However, the Quran is also mistaken about the name of Mary's father. Surah 66:12 says that her father's name was Imran (Amram), the same name as the father of Moses. (see Exodus 6:20) This is an unbelievable concidence that Mary's father and brother would both be named after the father and son in the family of Moses. Islamic scholars tried to explain that "the sister of Haron (Aaron)" meant "his sister in faith" in other words not indicating a physical familial relation. However, this verse mentions the father, the mother and the brother so the verse in indeed denoting family relationship.
Mariam:28

That doesn't prove anything. I can't give you a definite answer, but how do you know her dad wasn't called Imran? I'm pretty sure there is not rule saying only one human in history can be called Imran. Is her dads name mentioned in the bible as something else?

Also, what makes you a scholar of the Arabic language, that you could so confidently conclude that? How do you know by daughter of Imran it didn't mean descendent of Imran? (I'm am not saying it does mean that.)

This is not a contradiction because you are comparing it to the bible as if the bible is true, which it is not by Muslim standards.

The Quran claims that the calf worshipped by the Children of Israel in the wilderness during time of Moses was made for them by a Samaritan. However, Samaria, from which this man supposedly came, was not built until hundreds of year after the time of Moses. Moses came in late 13th Century B.C. while the region of Samaria was formed in the 9th Century B.C. The Biblical account of this incident makes no mention of a Samaritan. (see Exodus 32)
taha 85-88
^^ GRAVE mistake. mohammad got the Blessed Mother mixed up with a different Mary from the OT. there are HUNDREDS of years differences between them.

Huh? What does Mary have to do with the Samaritain? And again, you are making the assumption that the dates of the bible are true. That doesn't hold with me since I don't believe the bible to be authentic. Again, this isn't a contradiction in the Quran, this is a contradiction between the bible and the Quran.

Quranic interpreters agree that the person who argued with Abraham was Nimrod son of Canaan. However, there were twelve generations between Abraham and Noah (see Luke 3:34-36) and four generations between Nimrod and Noah (see Genesis 10:1-8). How could this argument have occurred when the Nimrod lived and died 300 years before Abraham?
Error found in al barqara 258

Proves nothing since the dates in the bible can't be taken as fact.

Confusing Noahs flood with Moses and the plagues
It is known that God punished the Egyptians using Moses by striking them with ten plagues: blood, frogs, lice, flies, the death of livestock, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and the death of their first born sons. Flood was not one of the plagues. (see Exodus 7-11)
al araf 133

Aren't any of your contradictions not based on what the bible says?! Talk about unimpressive!!!!

The story of the men sleeping in the cave for "a number of years" is derived from a myth invented by early Christians. It is known as the story of "The Seven Sleepers" which recounts the tale of seven young Christian men who hid in a cave to escape the persecution of the Roman Emperor Decius. They miraculously slept in the cave for 300 years. When they woke up they were astonished at the changes in the world that had happened overnight. The Emperor was now Theodosius who was a Christian. This story can be found in a Latin book called "The Glory of the Martyrs" composed by Gregory of Tours who revived the ancient myth to show his people the ability of God who is above all things. In modern times this story is widely recognized as fictional and is used in Europe to entertain children.
al khaf 8-26

Just goes to show that Christians can't tell the difference between real stories and myths.

The Quran describes Ishmael as a messenger and a prophet. For whom was Ishmael a prophet? What was his message? The Quran does not offer any explanations or details. The Bible does not declare Ishmael a prophet, instead it is recorded in Genesis that: "He shall be a wild man; His hand shall be against every man. And every man's hand against him." (see Genesis 16:12)
marayam 24

Again, just because the bible said something against the Quran doesn't mean that bible version is the true and the Quran version is false!

want some more? lol

If you show me the Quran contradicting itself, then go ahead, so far the examples have been completely unimpressive!

 

[Malaikah]

once again, when you prove my EXAMPLE wrong, you all of a sudden think that you are right. LOL. this is not the first time you have done that.

What are you talking about?

 

[vpb]

JK rowling also did not have 23 years and have the advantage of abrogation, and her books, if put together, are prolly 25 times the size of the quran. and one mistake is all you can come up with? what a joke.

as I said, let them study it, and we'll see. People don't take harry potter book to study for contradictions, they just read to enjoy themselves.

The Quran confuses Mary (Miriam) the prophet who was the sister of Haron (Aaron) and Moses, and Mary the mother of Jesus without regard for six hundred year time lapse between their existence. When a tribe of the Najran Christians told Mohamed's followers of this mistake, Mohamed replied that people often named their sons after the names of the ancient prophets; therefore, the Aaron mentioned in this verse is not the brother of Moses but another Aaron. Mohamed believed Mary the mother of Jesus had a brother named Aaron. However, the Quran is also mistaken about the name of Mary's father. Surah 66:12 says that her father's name was Imran (Amram), the same name as the father of Moses. (see Exodus 6:20) This is an unbelievable concidence that Mary's father and brother would both be named after the father and son in the family of Moses. Islamic scholars tried to explain that "the sister of Haron (Aaron)" meant "his sister in faith" in other words not indicating a physical familial relation. However, this verse mentions the father, the mother and the brother so the verse in indeed denoting family relationship.
Mariam:28

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/mary.html

The Quran claims that the calf worshipped by the Children of Israel in the wilderness during time of Moses was made for them by a Samaritan. However, Samaria, from which this man supposedly came, was not built until hundreds of year after the time of Moses. Moses came in late 13th Century B.C. while the region of Samaria was formed in the 9th Century B.C. The Biblical account of this incident makes no mention of a Samaritan. (see Exodus 32)
taha 85-88
^^ GRAVE mistake. mohammad got the Blessed Mother mixed up with a different Mary from the OT. there are HUNDREDS of years differences between them.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/samaritan.html

Quranic interpreters agree that the person who argued with Abraham was Nimrod son of Canaan. However, there were twelve generations between Abraham and Noah (see Luke 3:34-36) and four generations between Nimrod and Noah (see Genesis 10:1-8). How could this argument have occurred when the Nimrod lived and died 300 years before Abraham?
Error found in al barqara 258

are u trying to use bible to verify Qur'an???

Confusing Noahs flood with Moses and the plagues
It is known that God punished the Egyptians using Moses by striking them with ten plagues: blood, frogs, lice, flies, the death of livestock, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and the death of their first born sons. Flood was not one of the plagues. (see Exodus 7-11)
al araf 133

again, are u trying to use bible to verify Qur'an???

The story of the men sleeping in the cave for "a number of years" is derived from a myth invented by early Christians. It is known as the story of "The Seven Sleepers" which recounts the tale of seven young Christian men who hid in a cave to escape the persecution of the Roman Emperor Decius. They miraculously slept in the cave for 300 years. When they woke up they were astonished at the changes in the world that had happened overnight. The Emperor was now Theodosius who was a Christian. This story can be found in a Latin book called "The Glory of the Martyrs" composed by Gregory of Tours who revived the ancient myth to show his people the ability of God who is above all things. In modern times this story is widely recognized as fictional and is used in Europe to entertain children.
al khaf 8-26

show me the proof, that it is not true, but a myth .

The Quran describes Ishmael as a messenger and a prophet. For whom was Ishmael a prophet? What was his message? The Quran does not offer any explanations or details. The Bible does not declare Ishmael a prophet, instead it is recorded in Genesis that: "He shall be a wild man; His hand shall be against every man. And every man's hand against him." (see Genesis 16:12)
marayam 24

again, are u trying to use bible to verify Qur'an??






here are some useful links on refuting "contradictions in Qur'an"


On Claims, Contradictions, Context & Internal Relationships

Internal Contradictions

External Contradictions

Verses Contradicting Earlier Revelations

Contradictions In The Muslims Tradition versus The Qur'ân

 

[vpb]

here, you want me to show you a few quranic errors?

it is no surprise what so ever that there are no contradictions in the quran. not a surprise.

why are u changing your words? I think u seem to be angry, u don't know what u'r talking about. ;D;D;D