Racism veiled as liberation

[Ramadhan]

Children are NOT 'property', they are a responsibility. I you really hold the attitudes you have presented, may I seriously suggest you seek psychiatric help before somebody gets hurt and/or you get locked up? You are sick.

This is one of those very rare opportunities that I totally agree with you.

 

[Karl]

You are an absolutely disgusting man. saying a CHILD should suffer sexual abuse at the hands of his/her own father or other realative.

"Sexual abuse"... what a very Islamic cliche THAT is, how UN-feminazi! LOOOOOOL!!! Ummm, btw where did I say they "SHOULD" suffer at the hands of their father??? I never said that. Read what I said CLOSER. I said that in such a case that DID by any chance happen that it is simply no business of any other creature on earth. It is purely up to Allah to judge that as far as I am concerned. I am a stauch subscriber to PATRIA POTESTAS (the absolute power of the father). You will never ever break my pride and spirit.

in Islam he would be be sentensed to death for this.

Not under some jurisdictions. Shafi'i school of thought, for example.

So those pervs who like to take pics of themselves abusing their own children then posting it on the net for other pervs to see is ok for you?

It is simply NONE of my business to begin with. It is purely of the parents prerogative. Nothing to do with me nor you nor any other busybody commie. It's as simple as that.

those kids shouldn't be rescued from this situation, or any other sexual assult?

NO absolutely NOT. Now I know to some this might sound like "trolling", but I truly and staunchly hold my position of absolute parental authority. So if I hold this position, how can I therefore possibly agree with busybody socialist violation of my absolute parental authority position ?? I simply CAN'T. Of the worldy level, my offspring are completely MY property and I shall raise them by what ever way I see fit!! How I raise them is NOT your business. I can't believe the utter audacity and arrogance of some of you here. And just because anyone declares that their offspring are 100% their property does NOT automatically denote that they wish to actually harm them. To interpret my absolute parental authority position as automatically meaning that would be utterly naive and ridiculously presumptuous!

 

[Karl]

Children are NOT 'property',

Ok yours aren't, but MINE ARE. Got that?

they are a responsibility.

Yes mine are my responsibility alone, not yours.

I you really hold the attitudes you have presented, may I seriously suggest you seek psychiatric help

No I won't take your most kind suggestion. I am fully confident in my position and utterly inexorable on it. So you are completely wasting your time if you think you can convert me to your ways.

before somebody gets hurt and/or you get locked up?

What?? Where did I ever say that I had intentions of harm??? WHERE did I say that?? Locked up? So now even just holding my mere VIEW is a crime as well??? You crack me up completely.

You are sick.

You are just jealous that I have pride and will stand up against the busybody socialist hordes who would aggress my absolute parental authority. And you are their servile slave. Don't blame me for subordinating yourself to them.;D

 

[Karl]

Karl, maybe you should just cut to the chase and tell us what you're real agenda is?

No agenda at all. Just merely stating my inexorable position of my 100% parental authority and that I would never tolerate my absolute authority being aggressed by my enemies (no matter how "good" they might claim their cause to be). And I would defend my inherent parental authority to the DEATH if I have to. So yes, no "agenda", just a firm position.

are you an apostate by any chance?

No. Are you suggesting for me to do that because of my Patria Potestas position that I utterly refuse to give up?

 

[جوري]

No agenda at all. Just merely stating my inexorable position of my 100% parental authority and that I would never tolerate my absolute authority being aggressed by my enemies (no matter how "good" they might claim their cause to be). And I would defend my inherent parental authority to the DEATH if I have to. So yes, no "agenda", just a firm position.




No. Are you suggesting for me to do that because of my Patria Potestas position that I utterly refuse to give up?

you should know that the Islamic position, that of the prophet from his hadith, is that you should play with them for 7, teach and discipline 7 and then befriend them.. nowhere in there does it say that they are property of you, in fact we all belong to Allah swt

 

[Karl]

you should know that the Islamic position, that of the prophet from his hadith, is that you should play with them for 7, teach and discipline 7 and then befriend them.. nowhere in there does it say that they are property of you, in fact we all belong to Allah swt

Yes I agree that on the bigger scheme of things we are all property of Allah swt. All life on earth and the universe belongs to Allah swt. However, even though Islamic position might not have said that offspring are the worldy property of parents, on the same token neither did it say that offspring AREN'T the worldy property soley of the parents as well.

Also prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was known for his PERSUASIVE approach (rather than a threatening gun to the head approach) towards parents he deemed to be harsh or mistreating of their offspring. For example Zaide helped a family out financially and persuaded a father not to kill his daughter because he couldn't afford to feed her. This diplomatic approach by Zaide, instead of being DEFIED by the father was met instead by his greatest APPRECIATION for Zaide's help. It tends to be human nature to be receptive towards persuasion, but hostile and defiant against antagonism and threats.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

No. Are you suggesting for me to do that because of my Patria Potestas position that I utterly refuse to give up?

no because the posts that i have thus far read from yours, seem to reek of the typical "trollism" traits.

you are just really ignorant or you are a troll trying to make Islam look bad by stubbornly defending your stance.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

As I said to Pygoscellis, I regard that as simply none of your or anyone elses business if you are meaning to imply it towards me and my own offspring. PERIOD.



He is the master of the house. She is his offspring, his biological property. Therefore that is his private prerogative if he so wishes. Personally I am not into incest, but if I DID happen to be into it, it would be NONE of anyones business whatsoever. And if they wanted to ever MAKE it their business then they would receive by me something that I will refrain from giving description to all the ghastly details of what I would do to them. Answer me this: Do you think the Taliban would be ones to bow down to your state authority if they were being threatened to have their offspring seized from them because of some apparent mistreatment of their offspring? I bet you they wouldn't! They too would fight you to the death.




Prove it then. You obviously are unaware that some sects and schools of Islam support my position and that there is an exemption when it comes to offspring! I would have never converted to Islam in the first place if I ever thought that that proviso was not included. Private property rights and the attached absolute parental authority are utterly sacred to me and I would never give that up for anything in the world.




Because as far as I'm concerned my offspring have no inherent connection to you or to your society. I put a very heavy emphasis on clan, I am not a collectivist or a monogenist. So another part of my fundamental reason for this is that I object to different species of hominid laying judgement on what I do in my private affairs and how I raise my own biological offspring. I don't regard a different species of hominid to have the inherent right to judge how I conduct my private affairs. They have no more right to judge me than I have any right to judge a rhinosaurus which I deem to be mistreating its own offspring.




I don't care if you wish to speak that on behalf of your own offspring. Just don't speak on behalf of MINE. That is a no go zone for you, sorry. *I* will be the one to decide such matters, not you.

Disgusting!!!!!!! And why shouldn’t I get involved? Any human being with sick attitude like yours should be corrected.
Subhallah, now you making the father of the house into God himself! I don’t give a flying monkeys who is the master. That still does not mean he is allowed to abuse his children. Your stance is horrific.

Yes I am aware of some sect and schools; no wonder Yemen and Saudi government policies are abhorrent. But does that mean it is correct?

http://www.islamicboard.com/general...ng-human-phenomenon-ustadh-uthman-lateef.html

Child abuse is forbidden in Islam. Islam teaches love and affection ... I quote the hadith in which the Prophet SAW narrated "show respect to your elders and affection to your youngers" and the one in which a man who witnessed the Prophet SAW showing affetcion to children, approached the Prophet and sai "o Prophet I have ten children (please forgive me if i have quoted wrongly and let m kno ) ten children and i have neva kissd them (or shown affection to them in any way)The Prophet SAW was displeased at this and advised the Sahaba that shower your love on your children. The Prophet himself was full of love affection and patience amongst young AND old.
We must also remember tyhat it is a fathers duty to discipline his children and give them the correct tarbiyat so they grow to be beautiful practical muslims. He must do this with love and affection, and show understandin and patience towards his children. But there may come a time when a child's actions and ways need correction, he must try his best not to resort to violence. In no circumstance should heavy extreme beating of a child be allowed. But a not so severe (lightly) smackd bottom allows a child to realise they have done wrong. And a father will not be held to answer for smacking his child (when its not in the extreme) whereas he will be held to account if he does not discipline his child and give him tarbiyat.
Allahu A'lam

How the parents take of the child later depends how the child lives and contributes in society. There is connection and always will be.
If a father is abusing his child sexually, physically and emotionally then that child later grows up to think that was okay. There is higher chance the child will do the same to others or become disruptive and abnormal individual amongst us. It is absolutely authority business.

Your stance along with some of Yemeni cleric stance is completely vile.

 

[Karl]

no because the posts that i have thus far read from yours, seem to reek of the typical "trollism" traits.

That is a completely unfair and subjective accusation. I could say the same thing about a great many trolls and imposters who post here, but I can tell you I am definately NOT one of them.

you are just really ignorant or you are a troll trying to make Islam look bad by stubbornly defending your stance.

So you think defending a personal stance stubbornly is the sign of a troll?? Trolls certainly don't support Patria Potestas, Trolls attack Islam. I don't attack Islam, I instead attack those who would dare aggress my absolute parental authority position. I don't consider that trolling. And sorry if you think it is. A troll makes inane platitudinous attacks against Islamic conventions-- their typical catch cries being "the veil is a violation of woman's rights, and such and such was a warlord, rapist and killer...all that sort of stuff). I fight against those slanderers. Please never get the idea that I am somhow linked to them. Those despicable scoundrels make me sick and I would fight them to the death probably with more determination than even you would.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Karl
You are horrendous! And you need a slap several times over!

 

[Pygoscelis]

Guys, please stop with the insults towards Karl. He has his view and its a unique and interesting one and though I completely disagree with it I'm enjoying the opportunity to explore his mind on this. Woodrow has already cleaned this discussion out once due to people emoting and mudslinging.

Karl, what do you say to the opposite of parental authority? Would you wish the state to interfere to protect parents from their children? What if a family lives together until the children are adults and the parents are old and the children then abuse the parents?

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Imagine what the country would be like if it was to be controlled by people like Karl...

Would a child in this country be safe?

Would a woman in this country be safe?

Would elderly in this country be safe?

Would a vulnerable disabled adult be safe?

I doubt it.

Karl, what do you say to the opposite of parental authority? Would you wish the state to interfere to protect parents from their children? What if a family lives together until the children are adults and the parents are old and the children then abuse the parents?

Good question, I bet he would say a complete different answer to this as the children are not head of the house like a father is.

 

[aamirsaab]

Erm all of this is irrelevant. Like 4 pages worth.

You know what time it is?

CHICO TIME. Nah I'm just kidding, it's actually thread locking time.