Radicalization: Thoughts?

[sister herb]

Omg! You're against bush?

You're either with bush, or you're with the terrorists ok?

This world is not so black or white like you try to think it is.

 

[sister herb]

May the wrath of the Islamic state sweep all 4 corners of the Earth.

May Allah gives us enough wisdom to create the real Islamic state first and then rule it with justice, not with rage.

 

[abo mussaab]

 

[Search]

:bism:



Masha-Allah (as God willed), sis MuslimInshallah!

Actually, what you've said closely resembles my thoughts, and therefore I do think you're right: People who are interested in these things do have a predisposition to committing acts of mayhem.

For example, one of the books that has been linked to a number of serial killers is John Fowles’ “The Collector.”

Mark David Chapman, John Lennon's killer, was famously obsessed with the classic bestseller “The Catcher in the Rye.” Yet millions of people read the same books and are not inspired to commit murder or mayhem.

For example, I've read the bestseller book “The Catcher in the Rye” in my youth and though I could relate to somewhat the adolescent angst portrayed within the protagonist in my teenage years, I wasn't the least bit tempted to engage in anything subversive or evil and yet others have admitted to have been so inspired.

I agree with you: I do think that feelings of alienation as a minority could trigger issues that could lead one astray and onto the path of joining a destructive group like Daesh. For example, news outlets have reported at least some teenagers having joined Daesh coming from broken homes.

Also, I think mental health issues play a part as well because, for example, the Chattanooga shooter had depression and participated in substance abuse (drugs and alcohol) as a result of being the verge of declaring bankruptcy and having failed to acquire a job due to failing a drug test.

Actually, the part wherein you talk about how a few right Muslims feel that they have the Light and will bring it to oppressed and weak peoples is extremely malignant rhetoric because then they're easily able to ask conformity of others as they are the "few right" ones. Actually, "few right" Muslims is a rhetoric even antithetical to Islam because Muslims are in a prophetic tradition are assured that the majority are on the Straight Path.

Disaffected individuals in any group, like you said, are prone to committing acts of horror like the older of the Tsarnaev Brothers because one of them had wife worked 70+ hour per week but he was jobless himself. The other one seems to have taken to the brother's brainwashing. However, of note is the fact that the older one became radicalized due to materials online.

News is now confirming that San Bernardino couple responsible for the evil perpetrated also had predisposition to this evil with her studying at a Taliban-ideological-styled religious seminary, which undoubtedly influenced her worldview. However, the man already seemed a little unhinged from what was revealed of his beliefs in the interview with the father as the father admitted: “My son said he shared (ISIS leader Abu Bakr) Al Baghdadi's ideology, and supported the creation of the Islamic State." Now, honestly, how can anyone share ISIS ideology unless they had access to ISIS material online.

That is why I am concerned about the radicalization online because I am concerned that disaffected Muslims youths now have an outlet in the Internet for their rage and predispositions towards violence with the availability of extremist material that distorts orthodox Islam and easily gives them a "higher purpose" in the form of an "us versus them" rhetoric with a Google search or a blog or on Twitter or "special invitation" Forums. And all of this unfortunately seems tied to how the West is responsible for millions of Muslims having died worldwide as a consequence of War on Terror. Therefore, while we may not be able to do anything about the online access of youths, I think at least we can help others if we refuse to engage in demonization of the West and instead turn the conversation to how the specific Muslim in question should instead engage in spiritual introspection and draw closer to Allah SWT with increasing his or her practice of Islam (in regards to implementation of Quran and Sunnah (prophetic footsteps)) and instead be the beacon of light and hope and goodness with which others (Muslim and non-Muslim) are able to positively engage and in turn are internally challenged to become better.

Thanks, sis, for sharing your thoughts; your words were a beneficial read.

:wa:

Assalaamu alaikum Search,


(smile) I have been enjoying reading your thoughts on this and other threads.

I wonder, though, whether these assertions are quite true. I mean, yes, one can find all sorts of unpleasant things on the internet... but it seems to me that a person who would be interested in such things tends to have a predisposition to them.

(smile) Human beings are social creatures. We need to feel part of a group. If we feel alone and threatened, we will tend to look for people we can join with. This is a major force behind people joining gangs... of all kinds.

From my own personal experience, I have felt different levels of discrimination and exclusion in various different countries. And it seems to me that the more there exists discrimination and exclusion by the larger society towards a minority, the more easily people are sucked into extreme groups, whether it be youth gangs, organized crime, terrorist groups or religious cults.

Of course, family bonds are very important. A close and loving family offers some protection from isolation. But if you combine an unhealthy family environment with a rejecting society... the likelihood of a person falling for the glamour of a promised powerful "brotherhood" increases.

And then there are mental health issues. A person who is feeling weakened and alone because of internal factors is also looking for relief from their sense of isolation and fear.

(smile) But do people say to themselves: I feel weak and alone, so I'm going to join the Hell's Angels, or the Order of the Solar Temple, or Daesh...? (smile) No, we humans tend to find other ways to gloss over our feelings of helplessness and fear, because these are too scary, and too humbling for us to want to admit. So we say instead that we are real men, or independent rebels, we say we are mystics possessed of great secrets, we say we are the few only real Muslims coming to bring Light to the weak and oppressed...

This feeling of isolation and fear is what I think prepares the mind of the person who will join a radical group. And then the person looks online and discovers a group he/she feels can give them the illusion of strength and love that they crave.

(smile) And so, I believe the solutions to radicalization (or extremism) lie in creating more just and inclusive societies. Supporting healthy family environments. Properly and kindly looking after those who have mental health issues. (smile) Ardianto suggested a while back that love is what we need. (smile) And I agree that this is a very necessary ingredient. For after all, if we cared... wouldn't we try hard to make things better for one another?


May Allah, the Loving, Compassionate and Kind, Help us to be humble enough to turn to Him in our loneliness and fear. And Help us to Please Him... through our efforts to do good for one another.

 

[Search]

:bism:



Response to Abz:

I refused to engage with you in a bait question: Reread the title and the purpose of this thread as you seem to have lost the plot.

You propagate an extremist/radical/fanatical ideology, and I assuredly will not stay quiet about this no matter how you try to silence me.

This is a PUBLIC Forum, not your home in which I have to be invited beforehand and think about how I may enter and think beforehand about what decorum I should adopt before speaking to you, a self-professed supporter of organizations like Daesh. What you want is irrelevant to me in regards to participation in this Forum. If mods ban me, that is their prerogative, and I assure you I will respect their decision; however, I will not be silenced into submission with your subversive tactics meant to have people question my "Muslim-ness."

Funny, I think the same about you, that you're sowing sedition, doubt and fasaad (corruption). Don't think I didn't notice how you tried to guilt Muslims on the "Paris Attacks" thread about believing that the attack was inhumane and against Islam. Don't think I didn't noticed how you were rude to both brother Vision and brother ardianto when they didn't agree with you. I have an excellent memory, which unfortunately for you means that I won't be forgetting your modus of operandi which so far as I can tell means diverting attention from one evil to another, all for the purpose of justifying your negative and twisted worldview in which un-Islamic jihad is the way forward for all Muslims despite the fact that these actions are from the Khwaraij.

Also, unlike you, I learn my Islam from scholars and am not a self-styled mufti (Islamic scholar) on the Internet like you.

Don't even talk about so-called "arguments" in which many a time you were the direct instigator. Don't believe me, go through your post history; and ask mods to go through the deleted posts of yours.

Also, I doubt moderators and Forum members are feeble-minded and I find your presumption that they'll just nod their heads and accept whatever you say quite, quite offensive. You might have been longer here on IB than me, but that doesn't mean your ideas merit the respect that you seem to think they do.

That said, I don't mind ignoring your posts provided that they do not include things like praising actions of a terrorist or promoting terrorism. In that case, I will respond and you not wanting me to respond then is irrelevant to me: Capisce?

Peace.

Since it is quite obvious that you decided to beat about the bush and refuse to answer a simple question which would have clarified to all users your real intentions when claiming to be a Muslim and refuting unislamic deviations, especially when you have called for violence in Muslim majority lands and have continually hated on Muslims while not a word against the actions of burma, America, uk, France despite thr aggressions- i shall put you on an ignore list and please do the same for me, it appears that you are attempting to run around the ranks and sow sedition, doubt and fasaad whilst baiting and attempting to discredit genuine viewpoints by babbling in between people's posts - do not comment on or quote my posts, the amount of derailment and argument you've caused on discussions with false doctrine and baiting constitutes trolling.
I hope the mods ban either me or you pretty soon.
Just make sure you ignore my posts ok?

 

[Abdul Emwazi]

Brother Abz is quite knowledgeable from what I have read. Daesh is quite offensive a name and the movement should be called Islamic state, as that is what it is. I fail to see why you "search" continue to attack him.

 

[sister herb]

Brother Abz is quite knowledgeable from what I have read. Daesh is quite offensive a name and the movement should be called Islamic state, as that is what it is. I fail to see why you "search" continue to attack him.

How it could to be an Islamic state while their acts are so far from the teaching of Islam? It´s like calling the Ku Klux Klan as a Christian movement.

Haven´t you read how many scholars world wide have condemned the practices of daesh already? I do believe them and their knowledge much more than some unknown who writes to forums.

 

[Search]

:bism:

Brother Abz is quite knowledgeable from what I have read. Daesh is quite offensive a name and the movement should be called Islamic state, as that is what it is. I fail to see why you "search" continue to attack him.

There are many non-Muslims part of the Islamophobic industry quoting Quran and hadiths (prophetic tradition) ad nauseum, yet would you say they are knowledgeable about Islam? If not, then that is your first lesson in understanding that some people may seem knowledgeable, yet when one probes deeper, that knowledge is found to not have deep roots in anything but surface-level understanding of Islam.

Brother Abz2000 has an Internet connection; that is the best qualification I have seen in him to speak on matters of which he speaks.

Islamic scholars by consensus have opposed and continue to oppose acts of terrorism, suicide bombings, and mass murders for a reason. Their reason is based on Islam itself. Please understand and respect their knowledge and your own ignorance. Only a person who understands and respects his own ignorance is able to learn.

Please as a revert do not fall into the trap of going into an "extremes." As our Muslim brother in faith, you do not have to prove anything to any Muslim or even non-Muslim; do not think that you do, because if you do, you will veer off the Straight Path.

Why should it be called "Islamic State"? Because Abz2000 said so? What about the fact that he'd recently in one of his posts said "God is a terrorist, Prophets are terrorists," and ranted. Is this the man from whom you want to take your Islam?

I do not wish to "attack" Abz2000: I do not hold any malice or enmity towards him.

Regardless, I think his promotion of un-Islamic ideas as maintain Islam are dangerous, which is why I refute him and others like-minded on those points. That said, to give him his fair due, I think he at least has one noteworthy quality that he's exhibited, which is that he's relatively consistent.

Hopefully, you now have your answer as to the matter; and In-sha-Allah (God-willing) you will be able to understand what I've said in the best way possible and thanks in advance for your patience.

:wa:

 

[Muhammad]

:salamext:

As this is turning into a personal war, I think it is best we leave the discussion here.

I advise myself and my brothers and sisters to learn about Islam from the people of knowledge and to be careful of speaking without knowledge on forums.