Rape culture

  • Thread starter Thread starter Raymann
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 48
  • Views Views 15K
Let's refocus here.
You want to know what is my end goal here.
I stated it in my introduction, I want to know if the bad things I hear about the Islamic World are truth.I don't want to hear it from bias sources or islamophobes but from Muslims themselves.I know Muslims (or any other culture) wouldn't talk bad against their own culture so I'll have to read between the lines.

I'm not here to pass the SATs on Islamic Culture, Politics nor the Judicial System under Islamic Countries.

I stated that in many European countries rape cases committed primarily by Muslim Immigrants have skyrocketed.
You denied the whole thing, I think.

So this never happened? The rapists didn't rape anymore? Was it a one time only for them? Once a criminal always a criminal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm5SYxRXHsI

Sweden, where according to your sources everything is fine or at least is not getting worst.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okluybxKqRU

They claim that the increase is so sharp they don't have enough police to face the problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8EwVnQZTlE

What Muslims think about Western women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe6ODnehj1Y

Here you got me all confused:

"Where was the bravery while getting raped? Or while drinking with the rapist? Or dancing with him? Or flirting with him? Or moving in with him? "

So you agree with those Muslims who think it's the woman's fault if they get raped?
Either they dressed inappropriately or behaved like ----s and since we are animals we couldn't stop the urge of raping them.

In conclusion: what is your take on the rape epidemic in Europe which is in large attributed to Muslim Immigrants?
For a second I thought that you denied the whole thing. Or was it a partial denial ? Muslims have nothing to do with it?
To say that you're in denial is the understatement of the year.

I guess I'll keep reading between the lines.
 
Let's refocus here.
You want to know what is my end goal here.
I stated it in my introduction, I want to know if the bad things I hear about the Islamic World are truth.I don't want to hear it from bias sources or islamophobes but from Muslims themselves.I know Muslims (or any other culture) wouldn't talk bad against their own culture so I'll have to read between the lines.

I'm not here to pass the SATs on Islamic Culture, Politics nor the Judicial System under Islamic Countries.

I stated that in many European countries rape cases committed primarily by Muslim Immigrants have skyrocketed.
You denied the whole thing, I think.

So this never happened? The rapists didn't rape anymore? Was it a one time only for them? Once a criminal always a criminal.

If you're not going to take the discussion seriously and actually look up FACTS not hearsay, then there's no point in this discussion.

All of the video's you've shown have absolutely no relevancy to this topic. I need an actual graph, table, research that says explicitly what you want proven ie. that MUSLIMS are the reason that rapes have increased. Because all of my research even the ones that were included in the video don't make the same comparisons. Muslims have lived in these countries long before the refugee crisis and considering white supremacy and islamophobia on the rise, then any type of negative correlations against muslims will be made to remove them or prevent more from arriving, "oh there's a rise in sexual crimes?? MUST BE THE MOZLEM IMMIGRANTS!" when there's absolutely no proof of it. They throw in a few stories of women who were victimized under dubious circumstances and they allow the viewer to make the final conclusion. That's how media works bud. Now this is not to say that crimes are not being committed by immigrants if any are, but that there's no legitimate source that says they are the actual CAUSE in rising rape. With that being said, immigrant doesn't equal muslim. Victims wouldn't know whether they are muslim or not unless victimizers actually divulge that information, right? So again, I need real research, not youtube, not individual claims, not right-wing christian islamophobic articles. Otherwise there's no point in this discussion because you're the one here to learn, and if you legitimately want to learn then search for the TRUTH, not what you want to hear just to validate your assumptions or prejudice.

So you agree with those Muslims who think it's the woman's fault if they get raped?
Either they dressed inappropriately or behaved like ----s and since we are animals we couldn't stop the urge of raping them.

The point was that it isn't about bravery. How'd that fly over your head? You were comparing victims and victim blaming which isn't right.

If you want to hear what Muslims think about their own culture, then just ask us about our CULTURE. I totally clarified that for you a few posts back. You haven't done that. See here
If they do, it's due to culture not religion. This is not to say that there aren't any problems--absolutely issues do exist--but they do not stem from religion. If you included culture into this topic, there'd be much more to say and put blame on, and I'd suggest your research start there.

I'm sure we have tons to say about CULTURE and I don't mind talking about it even the negative stuff. But for the record, "MUSLIM culture" isn't a thing. Like what's "Atheist culture" or "Christian culture"...those things do not exist. Although it seems you want to lump everything together as if it's one big huge country, which is wrong and won't get you anywhere. If you want to make a blatant claim then at least have the decency to back it up with facts, that is all I ask.

You still haven't done any of the research I've asked in the previous post. So I'll let this be my last post until we get relevant information to this topic :)

I stated it in my introduction, I want to know if the bad things I hear about the Islamic World are truth.

Since you've seen how the sources you've provided are unreliable, I think you can make the smart conclusion that they're not truthful.
If opinions are what shape truth for you, then you can find plenty of that online (like you have already). I don't follow opinion nor do I let that shape my views or my world. :)
 
In conclusion: what is your take on the rape epidemic in Europe which is in large attributed to Muslim Immigrants?
For a second I thought that you denied the whole thing. Or was it a partial denial ? Muslims have nothing to do with it?
To say that you're in denial is the understatement of the year.

My take on it is that you are asking loaded questions, and expecting the discussion to be based on premises that effectively predetermine the outcome. Something you wouldn't do if you are serious about getting to the truth, rather than looking for validation of preconceived notions.
 
My take on it is that you are asking loaded questions, and expecting the discussion to be based on premises that effectively predetermine the outcome. Something you wouldn't do if you are serious about getting to the truth, rather than looking for validation of preconceived notions.

My duty is to walk on Allah :swt: 's path in obedience until He informs me that my task is over - a person has no right to put falsehood-loaded obstacles on that path, yet even then, i must do what is necessary to be able to continue walking on the straight path, so if i see any rubbish dropped by an ignorant - i might brush it aside or pick it up in order to throw it in the bin for the convenience of others who walk on the path alongside and after me, if however i notice an idiot relentlessly bringing more falsehood filled rubbish and dumping it on the path with the aim of beleaguring me, i will turn my focus on the idiot throwing falsehood on the path and force him to walk on the straight path if i can, prevent him from throwing rubbish filled falsehood on the path if i can't make him walk straight, exhort others to assist me in making him walk on the straight path or preventing him from falsehood if i make him walk straight or prevent him myself, and hate the crime and sit there praying to Allah :swt: if none of us can walk upon the straight path properly any more...and that's the weakest stage - like the case of the youth of Surah al Kahf, and the people who pray to Allah :swt: on the mount with Isa :as: due to the corruption of the brain-dead gog and magog.


This individual (op) appears to me to be pushing skewed talking points based on false premises with the aim of confusing people and leading them astray from the truth, and not with the aim of enlightening people.
everyone think for yourselves.





I have a question for op:

try to imagine that a circle is a square, a square is a triangle, a triangle is a pentagon, a pentagon is a hexagon, a hexagon is an octagon, an octagon is a ceiling fan, a ceiling fan is a mobile phone, a mobile phone is a giraffe, a giraffe is a volvo, a volvo is a mercedes benz, a mercedez benz is a cup of tea, a cup of tea is a cup of coffe, a cup of coffee is a doner kebab, a doner kebab is a ligh bulb, a light bulb is a jet propelled motorbike, a jet propelled motorbike is planet jupiter ....... ad infinitum..... what would that ultimately make you?

the only reason i ask is because some people say so even though i know it's nonsense, please answer, and please spend a few hours of each of your limited days answering in order to enlighten us.






1. A.L.M.

2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.

3. Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

4. And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.

5. They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.

6. As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

7. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

8. Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.

9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!

10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).

11. When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

12. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.

13. When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.

14. When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."

15. Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (To and fro).

16. These are they who have bartered Guidance for error: But their traffic is profitless, and they have lost true direction,

From Quran, Chapter 2
 
Last edited:
Even if the claim, the ratio of muslims who commit the rape crimes in the western countries is more than non muslims in the tecent years, is true, we still cannot relate it to Islam or muslim idendity. You must consider all effects including culture, tradition, socio economic and psycho-sociologic situation etc.
 
I discovered this article, maybe it will help. Merely sharing the article, don't want to debate with anyone on this.

https://abuaminaelias.com/there-is-no-theology-of-rape-in-islam/


In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Islam has forbidden rape and sexual abuse since the time of the Prophet until today. Allegations by anti-Muslim activists are only buttressed by the appalling criminal behavior of terrorist groups acting in the name of Islam, who use rape as a weapon of war. Rape by itself is an atrocity, but it is made even worse, tantamount to idolatry, when it is falsely justified in the name of Allah and His Messenger.
The basic principle in Islamic law is that a Muslim is forbidden from harming another person or animal unless it is necessary to repel a greater harm.
Ubaida ibn al-Samit reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, issued a decree:
لاَ ضَرَرَ وَلاَ ضِرَارَ​
Do not cause harm or return harm.
Source: Sunan Ibn Mājah 2340, Grade: Hasan
Al-Suyuti expressed the legal principle as follows:
الضَّرَر يُزَال​
Harm should be removed.
Source: al-Ashbāh wal-Naẓāʼir 1/7
Since it is well-established that rape causes innumerable harms to mind, body, and spirit, without any rational justification of preventing a greater wrong, it follows that rape is absolutely forbidden in Islam. This by itself is enough to establish the prohibition of rape. Even so, the Prophet further set the precedent that rape should not be tolerated in Muslim society. A man in Medina was caught after he raped a woman and the Prophet applied legal punishment on him, the maximum of which is the death penalty.
Abu Alqama reported: A woman went out to pray during the time of the Prophet and she was met by a man who attacked her and raped her. She said, “This man has molested me!” The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
ارْجُمُوهُ​
He is condemned to death.
Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 1454, Grade: Sahih
The righteous Caliphs who succeeded the Prophet continued this policy of legal punishment for the crime of rape. The victim of rape would not be punished regardless of the circumstances.
Ibn Umar reported:
أَنَّ عُمَرَ رضي الله عنه أُتِيَ بِإِمَاءٍ مِنْ إِمَاءِ الإِمَارَةِ اسْتَكْرَهَهُنَّ غِلْمَانٌ مِنْ غِلْمَانِ الإِمَارَةِ فَضَرَبَ الْغِلْمَانَ وَلَمْ يَضْرِبْ الإِمَاءَ​
Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, was presented with a servant girl among those who served the leadership. She was forced upon by one of the young men, so Umar flogged the man and he did not flog the woman.
Source: Muṣannaf Ibn Abī Shaybah 29012
Nafi’ reported:
أَنَّ رَجُلاً أَضَافَ أَهْلَ بَيْتٍ فَاسْتَكْرَهَ مِنْهُمَ امْرَأَةً فَرُفِعَ ذَلِكَ إِلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ فَضَرَبَهُ وَنَفَاهُ وَلَمْ يَضْرِبْ الْمَرْأَةَ​
A man was invited as a guest of the family of a household, then he forced himself upon a woman among them. It was referred to Abu Bakr, so he flogged him and expelled him, and he did not flog the woman.
Source: Muṣannaf Ibn Abī Shaybah 29013
Hajjaj reported:
أَنَّ حَبَشِيًّا اسْتَكْرَهَ امْرَأَةً مِنْهُمْ فَأَقَامَ عَلَيْهِ عُمَرُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْعَزِيزِ الْحَدَّ​
An Abyssinian forced himself upon a woman among them. It was referred to Umar ibn Abdul Aziz and he applied legal punishment on him.
Source: Muṣannaf Ibn Abī Shaybah 29014
The righteous jurists who succeeded the companions of the Prophet established a legal consensus that rape was forbidden and should be punished as if it were adultery. They only disagreed about the monetary fine that was to accompany legal punishment.
Ibn Abdul Barr writes:
وَقَدْ أَجْمَعَ الْعُلَمَاءُ عَلَى أَنَّ عَلَى الْمُسْتَكْرِهِ الْمُغْتَصِبِ الْحَدَّ إِنْ شَهِدَتِ الْبَيِّنَةُ عَلَيْهِ بِمَا يُوجِبُ الْحَدَّ أَوْ أَقَرَّ بِذَلِكَ فَإِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ فَعَلَيْهِ الْعُقُوبَةُ وَلَا عُقُوبَةَ عَلَيْهَا إِذَا صَحَّ أَنَّهُ اسْتَكْرَهَهَا وَغَلَبَهَا عَلَى نَفْسِهَا وَذَلِكَ يُعْلَمُ بِصُرَاخِهَا وَاسْتِغَاثَتِهَا وَصِيَاحِهَا​
The scholars agreed that the rapist must be given legal punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves punishment or if he confesses to it. If the evidence is not as clear, then he is given a discretionary punishment. There is no punishment for the victim if it is true that she was forced and overpowered, as would be evident by her screams and cries for help.
Source: al-Istidhkār 32083
The prohibition of rape and sexual assault applied to all women, including wives, slaves, and prisoners of war. Rape as a weapon of war is never considered permissible in Islam.
Harun ibn al-Asim reported: Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, dispatched Khalid ibn al-Walid with the army. Khalid sent Dirar ibn al-Azwar along with a company of horsemen and they raided a district belonging to the tribe of Asad. They captured a woman who was a beautiful bride-to-be and she amazed Dirar. He asked his companions for her and they gave her to him, then he had intercourse with her. When he returned from the expedition, he regretted what he had done and he collapsed in dismay. It was referred to Khalid and told him what he had done. Khalid said, “Indeed, I have made her permissible and wholesome for you.” Dirar said, “No, not until you write to Umar.” Umar replied that he should be stoned to death, but he had passed away from natural causes by the time Umar’s letter arrived. Khalid said:
مَا كَانَ اللَّهُ لِيُخْزِيَ ضِرَارَ بْنَ الأَزْوَرِ​
Allah did not want to disgrace Dirar ibn al-Azwar.
Source: al-Sunan al-Kubrá 16761
Al-Shafi’i said:
وَإِذَا اغْتَصَبَ الرَّجُلُ الْجَارِيَةَ ثُمَّ وَطِئَهَا بَعْدَ الْغَصْبِ وَهُوَ مِنْ غَيْرِ أَهْلِ الْجَهَالَةِ أُخِذَتْ مِنْهُ الْجَارِيَةُ وَالْعُقْرُ وَأُقِيمَ عَلَيْهِ حَدُّ الزِّنَا​
If a man forcefully acquired a slave girl and then has intercourse with her thereafter, and he is not ignorant, the slave girl is taken away from him, he is fined, and he is punished for adultery.
Source: al-Umm 3/253
Furthermore, it is forbidden in Islam to merely slap a slave or a servant, let alone commit any harm greater than that. If a Muslim slapped his servant or slave in a manner that causes injury or indignity, the master would forfeit his legal custodianship over them.
Ibn Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessing be upon him, said:
مَنْ ضَرَبَ غُلَامًا لَهُ حَدًّا لَمْ يَأْتِهِ أَوْ لَطَمَهُ فَإِنَّ كَفَّارَتَهُ أَنْ يُعْتِقَهُ​
Whoever strikes his slave sharply or slaps him, then the expiation for the sin is to emancipate him.
Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1657, Grade: Sahih
Suwaid ibn Muqarrin reported: He had a servant girl and someone slapped her, so he said to him:
أَمَا عَلِمْتَ أَنَّ الصُّورَةَ مُحَرَّمَةٌ فَقَالَ لَقَدْ رَأَيْتُنِي وَإِنِّي لَسَابِعُ إِخْوَةٍ لِي مَعَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَمَا لَنَا خَادِمٌ غَيْرُ وَاحِدٍ فَعَمَدَ أَحَدُنَا فَلَطَمَهُ فَأَمَرَنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَنْ نُعْتِقَهُ​
Did you not know that it is forbidden to strike the face? I was the seventh of my brothers during the lifetime of the Prophet and we had only one servant. One of us became enraged and slapped him, so the Prophet commanded us to set him free.
Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1658, Grade: Sahih
Malik reported:
أَنَّ عُمَرَ بْنَ الْخَطَّابِ رضي الله عنه أَتَتْهُ وَلِيدَةٌ قَدْ ضَرَبَهَا سَيِّدُهَا بِنَارٍ أَوْ أَصَابَهَا بِهَا فَأَعْتَقَهَا​
Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, was presented with a servant woman who had been struck by her master with a piece of hot iron or had been injured by it, so he ordered him to emancipate her.
Source: al-Muwaṭṭa’ 2/403
Al-Shawkani comments on this tradition, saying:
ذَهَبَ مَالِكٌ وَالْأَوْزَاعِيُّ وَاللَّيْثُ إلَى عِتْقِ الْعَبْدِ بِذَلِكَ وَيَكُونُ وَلَاؤُهُ لَهُ وَيُعَاقِبُهُ السُّلْطَانُ عَلَى فِعْلِهِ​
Malik, Al-Awza’i, and Al-Layth adhered to the opinion that a slave is freed on account of that abuse, he will have his loyalty inheritance, and the authorities will punish the master for what he did.
Source: Nayl al-Awṭār 6/101
That tacit question is this: If a man may not even slap a slave, how then could he in good conscience rape her or sexually assault her?
Anti-Muslim activists and their extremist Muslim counterparts agree that Islam allows the rape of captive women, yet their argument is one of silence. Since the Quran does not forbid rape, they imagine, it must therefore allow it. But an argument from silence is not a logically sound argument at all; rather, it is an incredibly unwarranted eisegesis, or a reading into the text that which it does not say. Plenty of evidence, as we have demonstrated, proves their claim to be false.
Yet we must confront their specific misinterpretations. Their primary proof-text used to justify their claim of rape is the following tradition:
Abu Sa’id al-Khudri reported: At the battle of Hunain, the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, sent an army to Awtas and they encountered the enemy and fought them. Having overcome them and taken them prisoner, the companions refrained from having intercourse with the captive women because their husbands were idolaters. Then, Allah revealed the verse:
وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ إِلَّا مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ​
(Prohibited for you) are married women except those whom your right hands possesses. (4:24)
Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1456, Grade: Sahih
This narration, read in isolation, might appear to sanction rape, since the attitude of the women and the accompanying rules of concubinage are unstated in this particular text. On the contrary, the appropriate scholarly methodology requires the collation of all texts and commentaries on a given topic before coming to a conclusive rule, principle, or practice.
In reality, we will find that this tradition is a proof against their position. Sexual intercourse was only made lawful with these women after they embraced Islam, which was a statement of their consent.
Al-Nawawi comments on this tradition, saying:
وَاعْلَمْ أَنَّ مَذْهَبَ الشَّافِعِيِّ وَمَنْ قَالَ بِقَوْلِهِ مِنَ الْعُلَمَاءِ أَنَّ الْمَسْبِيَّةَ مِنْ عَبَدَةِ الْأَوْثَانِ وَغَيْرِهِمْ مِنَ الْكُفَّارِ الَّذِينَ لَا كِتَابَ لَهُمْ لَا يَحِلُّ وَطْؤُهَا بِمِلْكِ الْيَمِينِ حَتَّى تُسْلِمَ فَمَا دَامَتْ عَلَى دِينِهَا فَهِيَ مُحَرَّمَةٌ وهَؤُلَاءِ الْمَسْبِيَّاتُ كُنَّ مِنْ مُشْرِكِي الْعَرَبِ عَبَدَةِ الْأَوْثَانِ فَيُئَوَّلُ هَذَا الْحَدِيثُ وَشِبْهُهُ عَلَى أَنَّهُنَّ أَسْلَمْنَ وَهَذَا التَّأْوِيلُ لَا بُدَّ مِنْهُ وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ​
Know that it is the way of Al-Shafi’i, and the scholars who agreed with him, that it is unlawful to have intercourse with the captive women among the idolaters and other unbelievers who are without a divine scripture unless they first embrace Islam. They are forbidden to approach as long as they are following their religion and these captive girls were among the Arab polytheists who worshiped idols. This tradition and others like it imply that the women embraced Islam and this is how they must be interpreted. Allah knows best.
Source: Sharḥ al-Nawawī ‘alá Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1456
Taking responsibility for the custodianship of concubines is also not devoid of moral considerations, such as the divine command to treat them well. On this basis, several jurists prohibited men from coercing their concubines into a sexual encounter against their will.
Al-Shafi’i, may Allah have mercy on him, said:
وَهَكَذَا لَوْ كَانَتْ مُنْفَرِدَةً بِهِ أَوْ مَعَ أَمَةٍ لَهُ يَطَؤُهَا أُمِرَ بِتَقْوَى اللَّهِ تَعَالَى وَأَنْ لَا يَضْرِبَهَا فِي الْجِمَاعِ … فَأَمَّا الْجِمَاعُ فَمَوْضِعُ تَلَذُّذٍ وَلَا يُجْبَرُ أَحَدٌ عَلَيْهِ​
Likewise, if a wife is by herself with him or a servant girl of his with whom he has sexual relations, he is commanded to fear Allah Almighty and to not strike her during intercourse… As for sexual intercourse, its purpose is pleasure and no one may be forced into it.
Source: al-Umm 5/203
In sum, contrary to the practice of self-identified Muslim terrorists who rape their hostages, the righteous jurists prohibited rape and sexual assault against all women, including wives, concubines, and prisoners of war. Sexual intercourse was only lawful in a legally valid marriage or in concubinage, which substituted as a marriage but is no longer valid due to the unanimous abolition of slavery.
Success comes from Allah, and Allah knows best.
 
How do we determine if a news event is true or false?I usually check my trusty sources and then the opposition and then as many sources as I can find.
Very simple, the more sources the more accurate the report.
On big events is almost impossible to pretend that the event is fake or false.Most of the big terrorist attacks have a huge immediate coverage. All news outlets from the whole political spectrum are represented. To see some stupid videos from conspiracy theorists claiming that 9/11 (as an example) never happened just defies all logical thinking. The coverage is so overwhelming that I don't need to see an official report to know that indeed happened.

The new year's eve rapes and assaults in Cologne, Germany was one of those events.The coverage was so huge and the investigation so vast that there is no denying that the attacks were perpetrated for the most part by Muslim Immigrants. There was a formal investigation and a report which concluded that there were 1500 complains of assaults, 500 of which were rape complaints. Those are only the complains received so there were many more attacks for sure.

My point is that you shouldn't need me to prove any of this, you should know that it did happened by using any of your sources.How can we talk about the causes of the problem and possible solutions if we never agree that the problem exists.
It is a constant denial and deflecting with the ultimate goal of not admitting ever.It is very obvious that asking for proof is just a delaying or defensive mechanism aim at avoiding losing the argument and a discussion stopper. It prevents discussion fluidity and shows a high level of dishonesty.I know you have a clear opinion of what happened and who the perpetrators where.

So again, this is my only question and I won't provide any proof of anything, you already did your homework and have all the proof you need to answer the question honestly.Where most of the perpetrators in the Cologne Attacks, Muslim Immigrants or at least people coming from Muslim Countries?
 
Even if the claim, the ratio of muslims who commit the rape crimes in the western countries is more than non muslims in the tecent years, is true, we still cannot relate it to Islam or muslim idendity. You must consider all effects including culture, tradition, socio economic and psycho-sociologic situation etc.

Excellent point. Don't you think that the fact that most women in the west don't cover up to the standards of Islamic Culture might have something to do with it ?
I've heard muslims accusing western women of being virtually naked. That has proven very dangerous when people get together and form mobs of religious fanatics who believe is up to them to punish those who don't adhere to their religious principles.
 
How do we determine if a news event is true or false?I usually check my trusty sources and then the opposition and then as many sources as I can find.
Very simple, the more sources the more accurate the report.
On big events is almost impossible to pretend that the event is fake or false.Most of the big terrorist attacks have a huge immediate coverage. All news outlets from the whole political spectrum are represented. To see some stupid videos from conspiracy theorists claiming that 9/11 (as an example) never happened just defies all logical thinking. The coverage is so overwhelming that I don't need to see an official report to know that indeed happened.

The new year's eve rapes and assaults in Cologne, Germany was one of those events.The coverage was so huge and the investigation so vast that there is no denying that the attacks were perpetrated for the most part by Muslim Immigrants. There was a formal investigation and a report which concluded that there were 1500 complains of assaults, 500 of which were rape complaints. Those are only the complains received so there were many more attacks for sure.

My point is that you shouldn't need me to prove any of this, you should know that it did happened by using any of your sources.How can we talk about the causes of the problem and possible solutions if we never agree that the problem exists.
It is a constant denial and deflecting with the ultimate goal of not admitting ever.It is very obvious that asking for proof is just a delaying or defensive mechanism aim at avoiding losing the argument and a discussion stopper. It prevents discussion fluidity and shows a high level of dishonesty.I know you have a clear opinion of what happened and who the perpetrators where.

So again, this is my only question and I won't provide any proof of anything, you already did your homework and have all the proof you need to answer the question honestly.Where most of the perpetrators in the Cologne Attacks, Muslim Immigrants or at least people coming from Muslim Countries?

Now you're moving the goalposts. You started by asserting that there has been a massive increase in the overall rate of rape in recent years. Still no actual numbers cited to back up that assertion, you instead changed the subject to one much-publicized event. As for those numbers you state, those are interesting. Wikipedia asserts that 509 was the total number of reported sexual offenses, which is anything from groping and lewd comments to actual rape. With only 8 being rapes and another 19 attempted rapes, as actually reported to the police in Cologne. Even so, even if there were 500 rapes, give or take, that's a drop in the bucket in a country of 80 million people. Do you have any idea how that compares to the overall rape rate in Germany? Or, that stranger rape is only a small fraction of the total rape rate, so a hypothetical massive increase in stranger rape wouldn't necessarily mean much of an increase in the overall rate.

You're lamenting the lack of discussion fluidity, but demand that the discussion be rigidly anchored on certain premises that you have dictated. Premises that you aren't even willing to entertain the notion of being incorrect, not even as a courtesy for the sake of discussion on equal terms. Whereas everyone else must accept your premises without question, or be deemed proven guilty of dishonest attempts at shutting down the discussion. Which is a peculiar accusation from you, since the only one who's refusing to continue if he doesn't get his way is you.

Ironic that. If this is your usual way of conducting a discussion, I can see why Muslims tend to react the way you say they do. As would I expect much anyone else.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top