Religious scholars mull Flying Spaghetti Monster

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I went pretty fast and loose with both the Biblical text and with the 7th grade science class -- I am not a proponet of ID and felt no compulsion to try to do a detailed comparative analysis. But I do find that at a very general level there are some parallels which are very interesting for a people who would have had no special knowledge of the origins of the earth other than that received either from other cultures' myths or special revelation. Though you obviously disagree, I still think the Bible sounds a lot closer to the Stephens (Hawking and Gould) than it does Gilgamesh.
Actually ... I think old creation myths that are NOT creation ex-nihilo—like the Enuma Elish and Genesis—have more in common with modern science than the way Christians have (wrongly) interpreted the Genesis myth as a creation ex-nihilo story.

*(Gilgamesh is not the Babylonian creation myth; the Enuma Elish is)

And while my general acceptance of the origins of the cosmos are enough for me not to take the opening chapters of Genesis literally, I would be interested in hear more of your "robust" answers that are provided by evolution. I don't see that in a universe where the value of a bacterium, an earthworm, and a human being would all be over equal insignificance.
Well, I don't think the theory of evolution has any answers for the origin of the cosmos. :) Evolution is limited in scope to biology and tells us nothing about astrophysics.

As for "value," I would question your assumption that value is innate, and not assigned. Why is a diamond more valuable than a lump of coal? What determines that value? We do. (Though I don't think we're the only creatures who assign value.)

Aside from that, I'm not really sure where to start. Evolution tells us a lot about our brains, our morals, and our societies. We can look at chimpanzee societies and see the precursors to our own social activities: hunting, dominance hierarchies, tool use, communication, altruism, even adolescent rebellion. We can evaluate just why each of these things arose—what advantages they conferred on our ancestor species, and at what costs. We might even be able to see which behaviors are vestiges that can be discarded or modified.

As far as Obler's paradox goes in conjunction with the speed of light. (Assuming the univerese not to be expanding faster than the speed of light.) I imagine that some of the stars are so distant that the light from them has simply not reached us yet. And when it does, just as I know that when looking at the North Star that I am looking at light that set sail with Columbus, so we will be able to look up at that new starlight and looking back in time be able to see the exact moment when God spoke and said (at least for that particular star), "Let there be light."
But infinite space would mean infinite time. Still infinite light in the night sky.
 
But infinite space would mean infinite time. Still infinite light in the night sky.

Unless the universe were expanding. Which would mean the distance between the stars was constantly increasing, resulting in an ever increasing void. this would mean that the amount of light from the stars would be decreasing although the number of the stars could be infinite, over time fewer would be visible, resulting in less light reaching any specific point.
 
Woodrow, I think I got lost somewhere in Denmark. Perhaps if we were discussing this on strings instead of threads I wouldn't get so knotted in confusion. But the whole thing seems to be folding back in on itself and that has left me in a state of duality where I am both with you and not at the same moment (though I guess I can no longer call it a moment in time, but in space).

Sorry Gene, I guess my attempts at trying to explain what little I understand of quantum physics leaves much lacking. But, it does explain why I never was a Physics teacher.

My point being the deeper you get into physics, especially quantum mechanics, the more it becomes necessary to use non-physical concepts to explain matter.

the apparent direction this is heading is that you can not have matter without a Deity. something like the non-physicists were told a long time ago.
 
Unless the universe were expanding. Which would mean the distance between the stars was constantly increasing, resulting in an ever increasing void. this would mean that the amount of light from the stars would be decreasing although the number of the stars could be infinite, over time fewer would be visible, resulting in less light reaching any specific point.
This still wouldn't solve the paradox if time is infinite. Infinite time means no starting point from which to expand in the first place.

If the universe is finite, but boundless, on the other hand—much like how the surface of the earth has a finite area but has no "edges"—this would resolve the paradox.
 
What does all this have to do with Flying Spaghetti Monsters?

I demand my pasta!
 
What does all this have to do with Flying Spaghetti Monsters?

I demand my pasta!
No pasta till you get it right! :D

It isn't Monsters. :thumbs_do There is one and only one FSM. :shade:

Besides he created time. :D
 
No pasta till you get it right! :D

It isn't Monsters. :thumbs_do There is one and only one FSM. :shade:

Besides he created time. :D


No he never, because he's similar to the creation. God is not like His creation, that's why He's God. :) Spaghetti monster is made out of pasta, a creation - therefore he cannot be God. :)
 
No he never, because he's similar to the creation. God is not like His creation, that's why He's God. :) Spaghetti monster is made out of pasta, a creation - therefore he cannot be God. :)

to add to that the FSM is delicious if served with plenty of Parmesan Cheese and a few slices of garlic bread. FSM is definetly a creation, designed by a master chef and is subject to the appetite of mankind.
 
No he never, because he's similar to the creation. God is not like His creation, that's why He's God. :) Spaghetti monster is made out of pasta, a creation - therefore he cannot be God. :)
I beg your pardon. :mad:

He made pasta in his own image and likeness. :D
 
I beg your pardon. :mad:

He made pasta in his own image and likeness. :D


If he made pasta out of his own likeness, then you are saying that the pasta which we eat is a god - since it is exactly similar to god? Therefore humans are able to devour this god of yours? I don't think that can be a God at all then - since he is being overpowered by his creation - God is Perfect and can never be overpowered. :)
 
If he made pasta out of his own likeness, then you are saying that the pasta which we eat is a god - since it is exactly similar to god? Therefore humans are able to devour this god of yours? I don't think that can be a God at all then - since he is being overpowered by his creation - God is Perfect and can never be overpowered. :)
I have a valid response to each and every one of your statements. :D

The problem is, that in order to make those responses I would have to make specific negative statements about specific religions. :thumbs_do

I don't do that. :mad:

That doesn't change the fact that I believe the scriptures of the FSM are as valid as any of the other scriptures. :shade:
 
FSM and its doctrine sound like an exquisite idea for atheists actually-- I am all for it. It gives them plenty of room to excogitate, observe, alter and modify their juvenile and not fully developed ideas of the world and the universe around them, and chanel it toward a more suitable purpose, eventually and hopefully they can emerge reinvented and ready for mature conversation..

I don't think I have ever engaged an atheist whose mind could take him beyond the usual vacuous comments of tea pots, pink monkeys or elephants or whatever other inane insights.. as if every conversation has to degenerate down to a low common denominator for the lot of them to experience some control!

I think this is a suitable deity for them..
As the adage goes, you are as intelligent as far as your mind can take you, and that is how far their mind takes them.. so I say 'why not' FSM it is.. there is no shortage of byways.. it is after all the human condition!


cheers
 
the thread has served its purpose, so im closing it, if anyone wants it re opened pm between the hours of now and never :D
 
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