Repulsive verses in the bible

[جوري]

Coincidently I was reciting Ali Imran this evening, and the following verses from the surah remind me of those stealth crusaders.

QS. 3: 69-72

A party of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish to lead you astray. But they shall not lead astray anyone except themselves, and they perceive not.

O People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve ye in the revelations of Allah, when ye (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)?

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): "Why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"

sadaqa Allah al3atheem!

 

[Predator]

Christians follow the teachings of Christ. Where any teaching of Christ contradicts something in the old testament, the teachings of Christ will prevail.


Well, no because Christ taught love and so those verses cannot be used for anything.

So you've just destroyed the trinity because according to you Jesus is not the God gave have Moses the 10 commandments and all those other strict laws , .
Jesus is different and he taught love and that means you now believe in 2 different Gods with 2 different set of laws for mankind

Whereas If you believe that Jesus is the same God of the OT. So basically what we have is this:

1- Jesus is God
2- Jesus is the God of the Old Testement
3- Christians believe that the OT is the inspired word of God
4- The OT is authentic to the Christian
5- The God in the OT is Jesus

So since Jesus is the God of the OT, we shall now look at the God of the OT ordering the KILLINGS of many people:

Zephaniah 2:12-15

"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist

Ezekiel 9:5-7

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."


These are just 2 examples the God in the OT ordering the death and destruction of the people. In fact the verses are very explicit; the God of the OT is making it clear that it is HIS SWORD which shall slay the people.
So since Jesus is God, and is the God of the OT, this means that it was Jesus who ordered these killings and it was Jesus who killed all these people! Hence your myth is DEBUNKED. Jesus did kill, and Jesus ordered the killings of women and children, the fact that you claim that Jesus never killed anyone is a plane intentional lie why would you make such a blatant lie? And it also leaves us with another question, which is what else do you Christians lie about? What other myths and propaganda do they create on their made up faith? We can only guess, but no doubt each lie will get caught and exposed.

 

[DancesWithChair]

So you've just destroyed the trinity because….

Well there is no trinity so we are in agreement there:statisfie. The thread is about repulsive verses in the bible so you have gone off-topic!

An atheist who is suddenly an expert in bible?

LOL.
Oh what a day.

This thread was started by a Muslim. Strangely you didn’t notice that!

He read the verses and used his Biblical expertise to conclude:

To me those verses incite terrorism, I can imagine them being used for the atrocities in Iraq, afghanistan and palestine.

I showed that he is wrong and will quote later poster:

In fact with so many pea brained folks in the world, I wonder if anyone bothers with academia and proper historical texts anymore......

Woodrow said it better in another thread:
-

Of what use or value is this "Comparative Religion" section?

TRUTH

Truth in the concept of learning what we each believe and not what we each think the other person believes.

Have a nice day! :shade:


-

 

[جوري]

Woodrow said it better in another thread:
-



Have a nice day! :shade:


-

Truth is not a personal opinion but a historically accurate fact!
Banking on Br. woodrow's wisdom doesn't exempt you from exercising some common sense or remaining silent until you learn it!

all the best

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I would like to warn Muslims from doing that.

The Bible my friend is the word of God. Just like the Quran.

God is not always nice but he is always good and kind.

Some verses in the Bible are intentionally inserted in order to catch
the eyes of evil people (like we know there are everywhere) and
by that punishing them by twisting their souls.

The Quran tells us that parts of the other religions are wrong -
but he does not tell us what parts.

Above all - he does not say that the Bible itself is wrong. We have to be
very careful in that. Because we might say that something is wrong
but if it is indeed the word of God we are doing a great error.

I think that this is the place were we are not succeeding. We must
very carefully study the other religions - and find exactly where they
are wrong. If we would be able to do that we would be able to explain
ourselves better.

Blessings.

 

[Ramadhan]

I would like to warn Muslims from doing that.

The Bible my friend is the word of God. Just like the Quran.

I see from your status that you are a muslim.
Please provide evidence that bible is the word of God. from the Qur'an verses and hadith hasan or shahih. Because as far as I know, the God decreed Taurat, Zabur, Injeel to the prophets prior Muhammad SAW, but not bible.

God is not always nice but he is always good and kind.

this is meaningless.

Some verses in the Bible are intentionally inserted in order to catch
the eyes of evil people (like we know there are everywhere) and
by that punishing them by twisting their souls.

Please give evidence from the Qur'an or hadiths.

I see that you claim to be a muslim scholar, so could you please be a little more scholarly when giving opinions?


How interesting lately we have a barrage of people claiming to be whatever they are, and yet what came out in writing totally negate their claim.

 

[aadil77]

I would like to warn Muslims from doing that.

Sorry there is nothing wrong in showing the falsehood in the bible

The Bible my friend is the word of God. Just like the Quran.

my friend even christians do not believe the bible is the word of god, stop dreaming

God is not always nice but he is always good and kind.

May Allah forgive you, do not associate human qualities to Him

Some verses in the Bible are intentionally inserted in order to catch
the eyes of evil people (like we know there are everywhere) and
by that punishing them by twisting their souls.

The Quran tells us that parts of the other religions are wrong -
but he does not tell us what parts.

The quran is not a person that 'he' tells us, its Allah that has told us in the Quran that previous scriptures are corrupted
Above all - he does not say that the Bible itself is wrong. We have to be
very careful in that. Because we might say that something is wrong
but if it is indeed the word of God we are doing a great error.

Well we'll know if its wrong if it contradicts with the Quran

I think that this is the place were we are not succeeding. We must
very carefully study the other religions - and find exactly where they
are wrong. If we would be able to do that we would be able to explain
ourselves better.

Thats exactly what I've done so read the thread again

Blessings.

Are you actually muslim? we refer to the one god as Allah not god

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I do not associate human attributes to him as kindness is not a human attribute.

We all call him Rahaman which means merciful. Is mercy a human attribute?

No. Humans are capable of it but it is not a human attribute.

The Quran, as the word of Allah, tells us that previous scriptures are corrupted.

But he does not tell you which scriptures it is. There are many scriptures and not
all of them are corrupted.

In fact we should be very careful not to dispute scripture which the Quran, as the
word of Allah approves because then we are doing a mistake.

I have no problem saying when things are wrong. On the contrary - when things are
wrong I would do anything to correct the mistake - as we are commanded.

As for contradiction.

What we as humans in our small mind see as contradiction is hardly what he blessed be he views
as contradiction. In fact, as the word of Allah, there is nothing in the world that can contradict
the words of the Quran.

It is only people who can choose to follow the perfect way described in it or not.

As for what you have done - the direction you are taking is blessed. However, we must be more careful.

Don't get me wrong my friend - I believe that what you do is blessed. However, we must be more careful.

As for evidence. The Bible is not the word of him in the same way that the Quran is. They are different
books.

As you know, the Quran is Allah's message to humanity.

This is not what the Bible is.


The books do not contradict each other. They are just different.

In short, I would not dispute anything that I think might have a chance
to be correct in the eyes of Allah. I am simply careful with that.

In fact, as a Muslim, I believe that anything belongs to him and
therefore, at the end, everything is his word including this one.

The only thing that is mine is wether I choose to be a Muslim
and follow the path paved for us - or not.

And this only he can know. I do not need to prove that to anybody and indeed
I cannot and neither can anybody else. It is not about proving.

This is what I believe.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Hi Aaid it is a pleasure to meet you.

There is nothing wrong in showing falsehood in the Bible. But we must
be sure that it is falsehood. This is all I am saying.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

As for verses which are inserted in the Bible in order to twist the souls of people. I do not need to go to Hadith for proving you this. You can see that by yourself at your local newspaper my friend.

 

[aadil77]

I do not associate human attributes to him as kindness is not a human attribute.

Yh so why did you say Allah is not 'nice' sometimes? Be very careful and ask for forgivenes

The Quran, as the word of Allah, tells us that previous scriptures are corrupted.

But he does not tell you which scriptures it is. There are many scriptures and not
all of them are corrupted.

All previous scriptures are corrupted, He did not say 'some' are corrupted, all of them are. Corrupted does not mean everything within them is incorrect rather parts of it are incorrect

In fact we should be very careful not to dispute scripture which the Quran, as the
word of Allah approves because then we are doing a mistake.

What do you mean?

What we as humans in our small mind see as contradiction is hardly what he blessed be he views
as contradiction. In fact, as the word of Allah, there is nothing in the world that can contradict
the words of the Quran.

I dont get what you're talking about, I said parts of the bible which contradict with the quran are obviously incorrect

As for evidence. The Bible is not the word of him in the same way that the Quran is. They are different
books.

I'm afraid you don't have the knowledge about that, as we have never seen the true uncorrupted scriptures we cannot say how they were different, we can only compare what is left of them with the quran. The torah and injeel could have been the direct words of Allah in the same way as the quran, but we dont know for certain

The books do not contradict each other. They are just different.

This is where you are seriously misguided, if the bible is different and does not contradict do you accept it as the complete true words of Allah? They clearly contradict, I doubt you are any religious scholar as you claim. Everyone knows they contradict, can you prove they don't?

In fact, as a Muslim, I believe that anything belongs to him and
therefore, at the end, everything is his word including this one.

What is His words?

I think you need to read the bible and accept that muslims cannot call it the true word of god

 

[aadil77]

As for verses which are inserted in the Bible in order to twist the souls of people. I do not need to go to Hadith for proving you this. You can see that by yourself at your local newspaper my friend.

What do you mean 'inserted in the Bible in order to twist the souls of people'?

 

[Dagless]

The Quran, as the word of Allah, tells us that previous scriptures are corrupted.

But he does not tell you which scriptures it is. There are many scriptures and not
all of them are corrupted.

If there were scriptures which were the word of God and had not been corrupted what would be the reason to reveal the Quran? Why would God have more than one correct religion at any one time?

As for evidence. The Bible is not the word of him in the same way that the Quran is. They are different
books.

As you know, the Quran is Allah's message to humanity.

This is not what the Bible is.

Please elaborate.

In short, I would not dispute anything that I think might have a chance
to be correct in the eyes of Allah. I am simply careful with that.

I agree with this comment, but only for those things which cannot be confirmed or refuted using verses from the Quran, and even then in a very very limited way (like you cannot follow them or use them; the most you can say is they are neither confirmed nor rejected). However, I am not a scholar, and if this is the wrong view to take please provide me with evidence for a more correct view.

In fact, as a Muslim, I believe that anything belongs to him and
therefore, at the end, everything is his word including this one.

This makes no sense. What about the words which go against what the Quran says? You cannot believe 2 opposing views.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

You can only believe in one voice my friend. This is true.

But all voices. Even the ones you should not believe in are his.
It is just impossible otherwise.

As I said. There is only one religion and this is the religion of Islam.

In fact show me a definition of the religion of Judaism show me a
definition of the religion of Christianity. You cannot.

I do not speak about things I do not know what they are.

I do not think that you are wrong, on the contrary you are very right my friend.
I think that we should be neutral with respect to things which we should be neutral
about and to attack when the things we believe in are violated as to make sure
that other people are not corrupted in the way.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

About the request to elaborate. Gladly.

If I compare the Quran to the Bible there is one striking difference
which I can see.

Although the Quran is the word of Allah it is written in a clear and
straight forward way so that any human can understand that -
thus it is a message for all humanity. An absolute message that is.

On the other hand - the Bible is not clear, not straightforward, confusing
and inconsistent to our eyes.

This does not mean that it is wrong or flawed but rather - that it is not
to be viewed as a message to humanity in the sense that the Quran is.

In my eyes, the Bible is a necessary preliminary to the Quran much like
a ground is a necessary preliminary to a flower. I think this is the best
example I can give.

 

[Dagless]

You can only believe in one voice my friend. This is true.

But all voices. Even the ones you should not believe in are his.
It is just impossible otherwise.

I have never seen this kind of stance in Islam before but I would like to understand what you mean, since so far I do not.

Lets start with an easy example:

Christian belief: "Jesus is the son of God".
Muslim belief: "Jesus is not the son of God".

How can you reconcile these 2 beliefs? You cannot say that you are neutral because being neutral or unsure of the first statement is in itself a form of disbelief in Islam.

and to attack when the things we believe in are violated as to make sure
that other people are not corrupted in the way.

My intention is not to attack.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

You can not of course reconcile the two beliefs.

However, the words themselves exist in Allah's world
and therefore belong to him.

Allah created both the believers as well as the non-believers.

You have choice only on what you have in your heart and not
on what other people have in their tongues.

Why should you attack my belief. We believe in the same things I
think.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I can be neutral on things which have nothing to do with belief in Islam.

For instance.

If a Christian would come to me and tell me I believe that Jesues was
the son of God - I would say that he is an idolater not as an insult but
simply because this is the definition of the word - idolizing something
which you by yourself acknowledge is not God himself.

I think this is clear.

However, if a Christian would come to me - I see the term "son" as an
abstract term which says the Christ was on a very high spiritual level and
he was so free from the bounds of this world that he was not a "slave" but
rather such a devoted believer that he was to Allah's world almost like a son
in a kingdom. I would say this starts to make sense and goes into the domain
of neutral.

Because - it is not literal belief in foolish things but rather shows of a certain
devotion. We might agree with the terminology or not (and with this we are
free to argue) however, you must agree with me that it is a much less problematic statement.

Now, it might be that for the founders of the Church, and even for Christ himself (which we
do acknowledge as an important religious leader and a prophet) this was the real meaning of the
word.

Thus it is very reasonable that through the course of time it is the meaning of the words which
has been corrupted but not verses themselves. This is because the verses are not straightforward.
Even if you would read the New Testament itself you would see that it is Jesus that says that it
is said in riddles.

However, the Quran is not like that. The Quran is straightforward and can never, Allah forbid, be
given different meanings.

The Bible and the New Testament can. And this is where the problem begins.

Thus, it is the task of Muslim to explain and sometimes remind to others, when they are wrong, that they are wrong.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Aadil, being nice is not always good. Allah is always good but not
always nice. Maybe I said my words to hastily and presented them
in a way which might sound offensive while, Allah forbid, I am not.

Let me explain -

What I meant to say is that Allah is not always nice
because sometimes, when needed, when those who do not
believe obey his will, he is also harsh and sometimes he is vengeful.
When necessary.

Indeed, you can see I am right, for the non-believers do we not refer to
him by the name "Al-Muntaqin" and "Al-Mumit" and by the name "Ad-daar"?

Of course, for a believer, these sides of him are far away from our mind and
it is only a sign of strong belief when it is. Yet, sadly, sometimes when judgment
is needed for some we know he needs to be harsh.

As for corruption.

Only people are corrupted. And they are corrupted by their evil inclinations and Jinns.
Corruption is a human word. The prophecies and scriptures
we have, from Prophets acknowledged by our Prophet cannot be corrupted because a prophecy or
scripture given by force of prophecy does not come from human words at all. And in case of
the prophets which we acknowledge does not come from the Jinn either.

 

[Ramadhan]

I can be neutral on things which have nothing to do with belief in Islam.

For instance.

If a Christian would come to me and tell me I believe that Jesues was
the son of God - I would say that he is an idolater not as an insult but
simply because this is the definition of the word - idolizing something
which you by yourself acknowledge is not God himself.

I think this is clear.

However, if a Christian would come to me - I see the term "son" as an
abstract term which says the Christ was on a very high spiritual level and
he was so free from the bounds of this world that he was not a "slave" but
rather such a devoted believer that he was to Allah's world almost like a son
in a kingdom. I would say this starts to make sense and goes into the domain
of neutral.

Because - it is not literal belief in foolish things but rather shows of a certain
devotion. We might agree with the terminology or not (and with this we are
free to argue) however, you must agree with me that it is a much less problematic statement.

Now, it might be that for the founders of the Church, and even for Christ himself (which we
do acknowledge as an important religious leader and a prophet) this was the real meaning of the
word.

Thus it is very reasonable that through the course of time it is the meaning of the words which
has been corrupted but not verses themselves. This is because the verses are not straightforward.
Even if you would read the New Testament itself you would see that it is Jesus that says that it
is said in riddles.

However, the Quran is not like that. The Quran is straightforward and can never, Allah forbid, be
given different meanings.

The Bible and the New Testament can. And this is where the problem begins.

Thus, it is the task of Muslim to explain and sometimes remind to others, when they are wrong, that they are wrong.

This sounds more and more like a stealth crusader.