Response to a stubborn disbeliever

[Woodrow]

So how do we reach the manufacturer. I have written, sent emails, called, etc and I never get a reply. Of course perhaps Im sending to the wrong address or manufacturer.

I may have difficulty in giving you proper directions. I never quite made it to aetheist status just to agnostic. It was in that stage that I reverted to Islam.

Actually I was not told the address by any person and had no intention of looking for it. I just came to the realization that I knew the address and it was time for me to go home.

 

[barney]

The arguement that he is bad at getting his message across is best answered as:
He was giving people a chance to straighten out their corruption of his word, then when they diddnt do it, he chose Mohammed.

Not that I beleive this, I'm just trying to think how belivers would answer that point.

 

[Malaikah]

the muslim concept came into existence. From their point of view he always existed. He was just really bad at getting his message across.

You can only make this statement assuming you know exactly what God's aim was... and you don't know that.

God has sent thousands of messengers over time. All they are meant to do is deliver the message, what people do with it is their choice.

In Islam we do not believe that God's intention is to provide proof of the validity of Islam that is so blatantly clear that every person who sees it will immediately believe. In that case it would not be believing it would be knowing.

The majority of the world is now following God's message (Muslims), or a manipulated part of it (Judaism/Christianity). I would say the message came across rather strongly.

 

[barney]

You can only make this statement assuming you know exactly what God's aim was... and you don't know that.

God has sent thousands of messengers over time. All they are meant to do is deliver the message, what people do with it is their choice.

QUOTE]

I'm sure gods aim wasnt to keep sending vastly differing messages every 500 years all written in incomprehensible religiospeak, each time claiming to overwrite his last "message".

A prophecy from Douglas Adams revealed Gods final message would be found written in letters accross the galaxy 14000 miles high.
"WE APOLOGISE FOR THE INCONVENIENCE"

 

[Malaikah]

I'm sure gods aim wasnt to keep sending vastly differing messages every 500 years all written in incomprehensible religiospeak, each time claiming to overwrite his last "message".

It obviously was not His aim, as He never did that.

The messengers all had an identical message in terms of belief (such as the Oneness of Allah, the reason of creation, the reality of the coming of the Day of Judgement, the existence of Angels, Prophets/Messengers, that Adam was the first human, that Allah sends books to some messengers.)

The only thing that differed was the law.

And messengers where not sent over 500 years, some where sent at the same time as other, some directly after... etc.

And not all Prophets over wrote the law of the last (law- not message. The message was always the same). Many of them keep the same law.

 

[Gangster No.1]

the disbelievers, are surely misguided, they ask, but they cant take what the answer is.

Allah has told you the punishments of the people who dont believe in Allah.


What I am personally thinking is:

You have been told the punishments of disbelieveing in Allah. Yet you still dont believe before or after you have been told about the punishmenets.

Therefore when you do die, perhaps today, or next year, or maybe when you 67, the principle is not going to change, your ganna die jus lyk a muslim is going to die, basislaclly your not ganna be here in this life, now HERE is where there is no going back.........death!

And because death has arrived, not ever going back to where you were from, the future for the believer and disbeliever is only infront of you. There is only two ways 2 go, ryt.

Now you were told about Allah in this life........Yet you still you believed/disbelieved...............iehter way you will find out, there and then.

And then this is where a BELIVER & NON-BELIVER will know there place!

Angel will ask:
WHO IS YOU LORD?

MUSLIM WILL SAY: ALLAH
NON-BELIEVER WILL SAY: I DONT NO

ANGLE WILL ASK:
WHAT IS YOUR RELIGION?

mUSLIM WILL SAY: ISLAM
NON BELIEVER WILL SAY: I DONT NO/DONT HAVE ONE etc

ANGEL WILL ASK:
WHO WAS THIS MAN SENT DOWN, DID YOU BELIEVE?

MUSLIM WILL SAY: HE WAS MUHAMMAD (p.b.u.h)
DISBELIEVER WILL SAY: i DONT NO/DINT BELIEVE




and that is the root from where you will be taken from---where your future of evr living/ never ganna die from there!

And when you have believed in Allah in this life and hereafter you will be rewared for your deeds,

However YOU dint believe..........BUT now you belive because for the first time you will see the truth in your own eyes, you will feel the truth from the punishments you are going to be given.........YET NOW YOU BELIEVE....ABIT TOO LATE NOW!

so here we are talking bout the truth, yet you dont feel/ dont believe in Allah....

just remeber one thing DEATH is round the CORNER!

are you ready?


i leave your thoughts 2 be with yourself and Allah, who has my soul, and there is no god but allah, and his beloved messeneger is Muhammad (pb.u.h).

ALLAH HU AKBAR! ALLAH HU AKBAR! ALLAH HU AKBAR

 

[Pygoscelis]

just remeber one thing DEATH is round the CORNER!

are you ready?

Well hold on. I'm not quite ready. I'd like the grim reaper to wait just a moment while I finnish this slice of pizza. Ok, now I'm ready.

Seriously though, threats of hellfire only work to KEEP believers. It does nothing to get new ones. Because the threat of hell and promise of heaven are only as powerful as belief in them.

If I told you that if you worship my dog you'll get an eternity of bliss I doubt you'd do it. And if I told you if you fail to worship my dog you will be forever drowned in strawberry jello, I bet you'd go on not worshiping my dog too.

 

[Gangster No.1]

Well hold on. I'm not quite ready. I'd like the grim reaper to wait just a moment while I finnish this slice of pizza. Ok, now I'm ready.

Seriously though, threats of hellfire only work to KEEP believers. It does nothing to get new ones. Because the threat of hell and promise of heaven are only as powerful as belief in them.

If I told you that if you worship my dog you'll get an eternity of bliss I doubt you'd do it. And if I told you if you fail to worship my dog you will be forever drowned in strawberry jello, I bet you'd go on not worshiping my dog too.

Now thats what i call a '****' example! but dont blame you when your speaking out ya arse.
lol.!!!!

Knowldge is a better word i should have used, because allah is giving us knowledge and what is the knowledge about life and death, purpose of life, and in the quran it dont just say about the punishments of disbelieving, it tells you so many diffrent issues.

However in this particular circumstance we are talking about ''PUNISHMENTS'' of a disbeliver, so talking in this sence what you need to understand is that allah is giving you and me and the world of beliveing and non-believing the knowldge of the after life!

Yes at the moment you dont see this happening, you dont no if its true, becuase you havnt seen it for yourslef, howver knowledge is the fundemanetal aspect of life, without what can you do, erm..nothng.

Allah has given this knowledge to the ''whole mankind'' the prophet muhammad was a messenger to ALL people.

if you dont belive in it, then thats difrent, but learing the knowldge is diffeent, it teaches you, and makes you understand why, and what, if you just dont belive and say that it is not true i dont belive your only satisfying yourself for few secs or for however long.

it isnt a threat, its REALITY, and a PROMISE!

and this promise is from no one else apart from the one who can create the moon and starts, the oceans and the galaxy, the planets, the one who has created you, gave you life, gave you a heart!

and this promise is from Alllah. However when you here the words of Allah, you seem to be allergic to it, becuase you cant bare the fact that islam is the truth.

May allah guide us all!

 

[carpetguy]

allah knows best, always good to speal to an alim to make sure

 

[MustafaMc]

Seriously though, threats of hellfire only work to KEEP believers. It does nothing to get new ones. Because the threat of hell and promise of heaven are only as powerful as belief in them.

Our responsibility is not to "get new ones" by converting others. Our responsibility is to convey the Message and to warn of the punishment for not believing - it is for Allah to guide one to the Truth or to leave him astray.

 

[Pygoscelis]

it isnt a threat, its REALITY, and a PROMISE!

and this promise is from no one else apart from the one who can create the moon and starts, the oceans and the galaxy, the planets, the one who has created you, gave you life, gave you a heart!

Ya, same with my dog and his jello. He created you one day when he was bored and you will drown in his fruity desert item unless you repent and rub his devine tummy.

See, my point is that while you believe all you say, others don't. And those who don't are not going to be swayed by promises or threats they see as imaginary.

 

[Gangster No.1]

Ya, same with my dog and his jello. He created you one day when he was bored and you will drown in his fruity desert item unless you repent and rub his devine tummy.

See, my point is that while you believe all you say, others don't. And those who don't are not going to be swayed by promises or threats they see as imaginary.

You seriously are daft!
more than daft, but not allowed 2 say on hear. lol!

but how stupid are You, very stupid indeed, how can a dog create me?
when he's ganna die in a few yrs sumet!

your seriously daft! i think you need to study sum more, you aint very intelligant are you? nah dint think so.

 

[Pygoscelis]

You seriously are daft!
more than daft, but not allowed 2 say on hear. lol!

but how stupid are You, very stupid indeed, how can a dog create me?
when he's ganna die in a few yrs sumet!

your seriously daft! i think you need to study sum more, you aint very intelligant are you? nah dint think so.

Think you can fit any more adhoms into that post?

You are awfully quick on the personal attacks and accusations of stupidity and delusion for somebody claiming a rather fantasic tale about a magical "God" being as fact.

 

[Balthasar21]

Al Habeshi < Says > Which school of thought when we are to discuss the validity of hadith? Lol. You know non Muslims discuss the validity of Hadith, do they follow a school of thought?


Balthasar21 < Says > First of all , All '' Hadith's '' That are not back up with verses from the Quraan . Are just words of men no more no less , Their 1000's upon 1000's of '' Hadith's '' Matter of fact they're more '' Hadiths '' verses then they're Qur'aan verse . This show you these guy's were making up thing as time went by . This is why you hear muslims says '' The Hadith's '' Says this or that . What about the words of Allah Which is the Qur'aan . They're certain '' Hadiths '' that really make muhammad '' Look Bad '' . When I speak of the '' Diffrent Schools Of Thought , I'm speaking of the 82 diffrent sect of muslims , Which Have Their Own Belief' / Teaching , Just like the christians have many diffrent '' Denomination '' Where you have some christian says they're under grace , and not under law Etc . But that all believe in Jesus , Just like all 82 diffrent sect of muslims accept muhammad as the prophet of Allah . So you can play LOLOLOL like you don't overstand what I'm saying , When I Say School Of Thought . It cool .



Al Habeshi < Says > Interesting how you 'predict' my very moves, yet fail to answer questions.



Balthasar21 < Says > At one time you were following me around trying answer my post , Until I ask you why are you following me around . Then you slow up a bit , Now your back again lolololololol . Your on a mission to prove what I'm saying is '' Wrong '' which you will never be -able too , And thats because your not allow to think out-side of your belief's . As far as me answering your question I have answer your question , You have a problem with my answers , You think that you can go to your favorite website and come back and here the answers. LOLOLOLOLOL. Wrong .



Al Habeshi < Says > Just out of curiousity what post have I closed that you mention 'Another'? I'm getting on abit and I forget sometimes.


Balthasar21 < Says > I'm not buying the above you know which ones , But hey its no big thing , You'll do it again or you will have one of the mods remove / closed it out .


Al Habeshi < Says > Do you normally ignore questions you find hard to answer? Did you ever reply about to the question about the article's creation on the other thread?


Balthasar21 < Says > read the above ok , Same question ask in a diffrent way .


Al Habeshi < Says > I will ask the other mods not to delete a thread you make on such a topic, so go ahead please. As long as you can discuss in a constructive civilised manner, we will be alright sir.


Balthasar21 < Says > I have no problem discussing things , your the one who can't deal with my answer . The question should be can you discuss in a constructive civilised manner, And not call me name as you have in the pass because I didn't agree with you . Remember something when one give repect they get respect , It has nothing to do with age ,



Al Habeshi < Says > Great assumption, you think I read all of your posts? I did when you were new here, I put some effort, but after a while, I thought it best to leave you be, since you harldly replied to questions. Some people hear but hear not and see but see not.


Balthasar21 < Says > LOLOLOLOLOLOL takeing little pop shots LOLOLOLLOL By the way your still reading my post , You can't help yourself and you know it . And no it not my ego talking , its the truth ,


Al Habeshi < Says > So if you want to give me alink to a post where you were insulted plesae do, if not then don't complain.


Balthasar21 < Says > complaining Naaaaaaaa just show how you only see what you want see that all . I can take it as well as give it . Like I have said before it will happen again . We'll see who you will try to silence first your muslims brother or that little girl with that garbage mouth , She really make the muslim woman look real bad , You would think she would have more respect for herself being a muslim woman .

 

[barney]

the disbelievers, are surely misguided, they ask, but they cant take what the answer is.

Allah has told you the punishments of the people who dont believe in Allah.


What I am personally thinking is:

You have been told the punishments of disbelieveing in Allah. Yet you still dont believe before or after you have been told about the punishmenets.

Therefore when you do die, perhaps today, or next year, or maybe when you 67, the principle is not going to change, your ganna die jus lyk a muslim is going to die, basislaclly your not ganna be here in this life, now HERE is where there is no going back.........death!

And because death has arrived, not ever going back to where you were from, the future for the believer and disbeliever is only infront of you. There is only two ways 2 go, ryt.

Now you were told about Allah in this life........Yet you still you believed/disbelieved...............iehter way you will find out, there and then.

And then this is where a BELIVER & NON-BELIVER will know there place!

Angel will ask:
WHO IS YOU LORD?

MUSLIM WILL SAY: ALLAH
NON-BELIEVER WILL SAY: I DONT NO

ANGLE WILL ASK:
WHAT IS YOUR RELIGION?

mUSLIM WILL SAY: ISLAM
NON BELIEVER WILL SAY: I DONT NO/DONT HAVE ONE etc

ANGEL WILL ASK:
WHO WAS THIS MAN SENT DOWN, DID YOU BELIEVE?

MUSLIM WILL SAY: HE WAS MUHAMMAD (p.b.u.h)
DISBELIEVER WILL SAY: i DONT NO/DINT BELIEVE




and that is the root from where you will be taken from---where your future of evr living/ never ganna die from there!

And when you have believed in Allah in this life and hereafter you will be rewared for your deeds,

However YOU dint believe..........BUT now you belive because for the first time you will see the truth in your own eyes, you will feel the truth from the punishments you are going to be given.........YET NOW YOU BELIEVE....ABIT TOO LATE NOW!

so here we are talking bout the truth, yet you dont feel/ dont believe in Allah....

just remeber one thing DEATH is round the CORNER!

are you ready?


i leave your thoughts 2 be with yourself and Allah, who has my soul, and there is no god but allah, and his beloved messeneger is Muhammad (pb.u.h).

ALLAH HU AKBAR! ALLAH HU AKBAR! ALLAH HU AKBAR

Surely we are not.
For we have contemplated its message and its history and we said . "Lo, Surely this was written by man, and has no connection with the realitys of the universe. For it was not written, (except just now), that we do not know, but only the creator knows, and even then may-hap he dosnt if he's not around anymore, what happens unto our souls, if such a thing existed"

"Therefore, we shall all die, mayby tommorow mayby when we are 67, and then we shall find out.And there will be a good many upon the last days who will die and they will sayeth ..."Umm? Err? What the heck? It's not supposed to be like this"....If they had but windpipes to speak with or air to say it with"

"Therefore, hence , head forth and make use of your time here, to spread harmony, peace amongst people of all nations, and wrappeth thyself not up in words written to socially coerce the gullible ancients for political ends or power- but do right by others and yourself, if ye wish to make a difference in the world. For 20 hail marys, wearing a box on thy head with papers in it or waking up at 3 in the morning to indoctrinate thyself still further avails ye not"

 

[ranma1/2]

You can only make this statement assuming you know exactly what God's aim was... and you don't know that.

God has sent thousands of messengers over time. All they are meant to do is deliver the message, what people do with it is their choice.

In Islam we do not believe that God's intention is to provide proof of the validity of Islam that is so blatantly clear that every person who sees it will immediately believe. In that case it would not be believing it would be knowing.

The majority of the world is now following God's message (Muslims), or a manipulated part of it (Judaism/Christianity). I would say the message came across rather strongly.

Well if god was trying to get a message across he did a bad job. Of course maybe god was actually aiming to cause caos and harm. Who knows? As you said I dont know what his aim was. And what is wrong with knowing? If god is going to punish you for things you did not know then he sounds pretty poor to me. And the majority of the world is not following gods message. Many may think they are but many of those religions have happily killed others of different religions.

Now if I wanted to get my message across and I had gods power I would definitly be better at doing it and still allow for free will.

 

[Umar001]

Now if I wanted to get my message across and I had gods power I would definitly be better at doing it and still allow for free will.

Out of curiousity, I havent followed the discussion dot for dot, so I will just ask, what would you have done, maybe that can be another thread if you want, so we dont go too off topic.

Regards

Eesa

 

[ranma1/2]

Ｔhe disbelievers, are surely misguided, they ask, but they cant take what the answer is.

ＧＦＳＭ has told you the punishments of the people who dont believe in ｉｔ．

And then this is where a BELIVER & NON-BELIVER will know there place!

ＩＰＵ will ask:
WHO IS YOU ＰＡＳＴＡ?

Ｐａｓｔａｆａｒｉａｎｓ WILL SAY: ＧＦＳＭ
NON-BELIEVER WILL SAY: ｐａｓｔａ？？　　ａｌｆｒｅｄｏ　ｉ　ｇｕｅｓｓ．．．？

ＩＰＵ WILL ASK:
WHAT IS YOUR RELIGION?

Ｐａｓｔａｆａｒｉａｎ WILL SAY:　Ｐａｓｔａｆａｒｉａｎｉｓｍ
NON BELIEVER WILL SAY: I DONT NO/DONT HAVE ONE，　ｉｓｌａｍ，ｃｈｒｉｓｔｉｎａｉｔｙ，　ＩＰＵ　ｅｔｃ．．．

ANGEL WILL ASK:
WHO WAS THIS MAN SENT DOWN, DID YOU BELIEVE?

Ｐａｓｔａｆａｒｉａｎｓ WILL SAY: HE WAS ｔｈｅ　ｐｒｏｈｐｅｔ (Ｓａｕｃｅ.bｅ.uｐｏｎ.hｉｍ)
DISBELIEVER WILL SAY: ｉ　ｄｏｎｔ　ｋｎｏｗ，　ｃｈｒｉｓｔ，　ｍｏｈａｍｍａｄ．　ｅｔｃ．．．

Ａｎｄ　ｔｈｅｎｔ　ｈｅ　ＩＰＵ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｓａｙ．．
Ｔｈａｔｓ　ｃｏｏｌ　ｓｏ　ｗｈｏ　ｗａｓ　ｇｏｏｄ　ａｎｄ　ｗｈｏ　ｂａｄ．
Ｏｋ　ｅｖｅｒｙｏｎｅ　ｓｔｅｐ　ｉｎｔｏ　ｔｈｉｓ　ｈｏｔ　ｐｏｔ　ｏｆ　ｗａｔｅｒ．　Ｇｏｏｄ　ｇｕｙｓ　ｙｏｕ　ｃａｎ　ｇｅｔ　ｏｕｔ　ｗｈｅｎ　ｙｏｕ　ｒｅａｃｈ　ｔｈｅ　ｐｅｒｆｅｃｔ　ｐｏｉｎｔ　ｏｆ　ａｌｄｅｎｔｅ．　Ｂａｄ　ｇｕｙｓ　ｙｏｕ　ｓｔａｙ　ｉｎ　ｔｉｌｌ　ｙｏｕｒ　ａｌｌ　ｒｕｂｂｅｒｙ．


And when you have believed in ＧＦＳＭin this life and hereafter you will be rewared for your deeds　ａｎｄ　ｎｏｔ　ｆｏｒ　ｂｅｌｉｅｖｅｉｎｇ　ｉｎ　ＧＦＳＭ．


so here we are talking bout the truth, yet you dont feel/ dont believe in ｔｈｅ　Ｇｒｅａｔ　Ｆｌｙｉｎｇ　Ｓｐａｇｅｔｔｉ　Ｍｏｎｓｔｅｒ....　”ａｎｄ　ｈｅ　ｄｏｅｓｎｔ　ｃａｒｅ”




i leave your thoughts ｔｏ be with yourself and ＧＦＳＭ, who has my sａｕｃｅl, and there is no god but ＧＦＳＭ　”ｂｕｔ　ｈｅ　ｄｏｅｓｎｔ　ｃａｒｅ　ｉｆ　ｙｏｕ　ｂｅｌｉｅｖｅ　ｉｎ　ｈｉｍ　ｏｒ　ｎｏｔ　ｃａｕｓｅ　ｈｅｓ　ｃｏｏｌ　ｌｉｋｅ　ｔｈａｔ｝, and his beloved messeneger is Ｊａｃｋ　Ｓｐａｒｒｏｗ． (Ｓ．b.u.h).

 

[Umar001]

Am pretty confused bro. what would you exactly have done? This spaghetti and pastafarian thing is bafflin me.

 

[ranma1/2]

Out of curiousity, I havent followed the discussion dot for dot, so I will just ask, what would you have done, maybe that can be another thread if you want, so we dont go too off topic.

Regards

Eesa

Ｗｅｌｌ　ｂｅｉｎｇ　ｇｏｄ　ａｎ　ａｌｌ　Ｉ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｈａｖｅ　ｂｒｏｕｇｈｔ　ｈａｖｅ　ｗｒｉｔｔｅｎ　ｍｙ　ｈｏｌｙ　ｂｏｏｋ　ｍｙｓｅｌｆ　ａｎｄ　ｌｅａｖｅ　ｐｒｏｐｈｅｔｓ　ｏｕｔ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅ　ｌｏｏｐ　”ｔｈｅｙ　ａｌｗａｙｓ　ｉｎｔｅｒｐｒｅｔ　ｉｔ　ｔｈｅｉｒ　ｏｗｎ　ｗａｙ”　Ｉ　ａｌｓｏ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｎｏｔ　ｈａｖｅ　ｔａｋｅｎ　ｍｏｒｅ　ｔｈａｎ　ａ　ｓｃｏｎｄ　ｔｏ　ｇｅｔ　ｉｔ　ｐｕｔ　ｏｕｔ．
Ａｌｓｏ　Ｉ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｓｉｍｕｔａｎｅｏｕｓｌｙ　ｓｈｏｗ　ｕｐ　ｔｏ　ｅｖｅｒｙｏｎｅ　ａｎｄ　ｇｉｖｅ　ｔｈｅｍ　ｍｙ　ｔｅｘｔ　ｗｒｉｔｔｅｎ　ａｓ　ａ　ｐｅｒｆｅｃｔ　ｔｒａｎｓｌａｔｉｏｎ　ｆｒｏｍ　ｏｎｅ　ｌａｎｇｕａｇｅ　ｔｏ　ａｎｏｔｈｅｒ．　　Ｔｈｅｓｅ　ｔｅｘｔ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｏｆ　ｃｏｕｒｓｅ　ｂｅ　ｍａｇｉｃａｌ　ｓｏ　ａｎｙｏｎｅ　ｒｅａｄｉｎｇ　ｔｈｅ　ｔｅｘｔ　　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｗｈａｔ　ｉ　ｍｅｎｔ　ａｎｄ　ｗａｎｔｅｄ　ｓｏ　ｔｈｅｒｅ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｂｅ　ｎｏ　ｎｅｅｄ　ｆｏｒ　ｂｉａｓｅｄ　ｒｅｌｉｇｉｏｕｓ　ｓｃｈｏｌａｒｓ　ｏｒ　ｓｏｍｅ　ｏｔｈｅｒ　ｐｏｗｅｒ　ｆｉｇｕｒｅ　ｔｏ　ｔｅｌｌ　ｔｈｅｍ　ｗｈａｔ　ｉ　ｍｅｎｔ．
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