revised bible and torah?

[doodlebug]

assalam alaykum

I was reading a book...forget the name of it....and it listed in it some of the verses of the gospel that are very similar to each other and stated that these are the verses that we can basically trust out of the bible since they don't have contradictions.

Has there ever been a book made that conists of all verses in the torah and the bible that have no contradictions and which we consider as being true?

 

[Woodrow]

assalam alaykum

I was reading a book...forget the name of it....and it listed in it some of the verses of the gospel that are very similar to each other and stated that these are the verses that we can basically trust out of the bible since they don't have contradictions.

Has there ever been a book made that conists of all verses in the torah and the bible that have no contradictions and which we consider as being true?

I never heard of one. I think the reason is because all situations are not possible to know. possibly somebody could say something is not contradictorary and then somebody else could find a situation in which it is.

If the words were identical and not simply based on apparant meaning I believe somebody could stick there neck out and say what specificaly is not contradictory. But, the words are not identical, just that some interpretations of some phrases are similar. We can not know in advance if somebody may find exceptions.

 

[doodlebug]

I never heard of one. I think the reason is because all situations are not possible to know. possibly somebody could say something is not contradictorary and then somebody else could find a situation in which it is.

If the words were identical and not simply based on apparant meaning I believe somebody could stick there neck out and say what specificaly is not contradictory. But, the words are not identical, just that some interpretations of some phrases are similar. We can not know in advance if somebody may find exceptions.

assalam alaykum

Well that's a bummer because although I love reading the Quran I would also like to benefit from what Jesus, peace be upon him, taught, which isn't really talked about too much in the Quran. I mean I know that the Quran describes him and all that but not really all that he said is in there.

 

[doodlebug]

Assalam alaykum

why was this moved to comparative religion? I'm not comaring religions. lol. I just want to know if there is a "muslim" version of the torah and the bible. Geesh.:rollseyes

 

[Fishman]

Assalam alaykum

why was this moved to comparative religion? I'm not comaring religions. lol. I just want to know if there is a "muslim" version of the torah and the bible. Geesh.:rollseyes

Osama Abdullah (of Answering-Christianity.com) wants to make an Islamic version of the Bible by trying to cut out what he precives as corrupted bits, but he is often under criticism from many people (including scholars) who think that his style of Dawah is really bad.

 

[Muhammad]

Wa Alaykum Assalaam,

Has there ever been a book made that conists of all verses in the torah and the bible that have no contradictions and which we consider as being true?

Regarding the Bible, you might be interested in taking a look at a book called The Gospel of Jesus.

Brother Ansar Al-'Adl mentioned this book quite a while back and said regarding its author,

What he does is he re-examines the New Testament using the Qur'an as a criterion and looking at all the various writings he puts together all that [he believes to be] authentic from the New Testament and includes the Qur'anic verses, thus creating the best representation of what the Gospel of Jesus was probably like.

Well that's a bummer because although I love reading the Quran I would also like to benefit from what Jesus, peace be upon him, taught, which isn't really talked about too much in the Quran. I mean I know that the Quran describes him and all that but not really all that he said is in there.

But the thing is that the Qur'an is the only book which has been protected by Allaah from change by human hands, and it is superior to all the books that have been revealed before it. Therefore not only is it a problem when referring to other scriptures that their truth and accuracy are unknown, but also the case that the Qur'an is so complete and perfect for our guidance and success, that there is no need to resort to other scriptures. Another point is that the law given to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) abrogated the laws of all the other Prophets, so some of what Jesus taught may no longer apply to us. There is a hadeeth which may help us to understand this issue a bit more:

`Umar brought to the Prophet (peace be upon him) a book that he had gotten from some of the People of the Scripture. `Umar read to him from it, which angered the Prophet (peace be upon him). He said: “I have brought to you what is clear and pure. Do not ask them about anything, lest they inform you of something true and you deny it or inform you of something false and you believe it. I swear by Him in whose hand is my soul, if Moses were alive today, he would do naught but follow me.” [ Musnad Ahmad (3/387)]

Yet there are so many parables and stories narrated in the Qur'an, and from the lessons and wisdoms contained within them, is it not enough for us? We should rest assured that the One who is All-Wise, All-Knowing, has given us all that we need in our lives .

 

[doodlebug]

I found what I was looking for. http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Gospel-Original-Sayings-Jesus/dp/1569751897

In the book that I read, Beyond Mere Christianity by Brandon Toropov, he states the following:

"The Gospel of Mark, most scholars believe, is the oldest extant Gospel. Intriguingly, Matthew and Luke depend on Mark for much, but not all, of their material. (The Gospel of John does not depend on any other Gospel in a textual sense; it is independent in a way that the other three Gospels are not. It is also compiled later. )

When we remove the influence of Mark and look at what Matthe and Luke still have in common, we find dozens of obviously parallel verses in Matthew and Luke - verses that often give us nearly verbatim expressions of the same saying.

Many scholars feel these parallel verses constitute clear evidence of a sayings gospel that supplies Matthe and Luke with a substantial amount of their content. These parallel verses, known as the Q verses, appear to reflect a lost manuscript that is almost certainly older than even Mark's Gospel."

I can't wait to read that book!

 

[Joe98]

Isn't it astonishing that no christian has ever claimed that Jesus wrote a gospbel!

And yet in the 2,000 years before that all 3 religions agree an what books were written!

 

[Umar001]

Doodlebug, just out of curiousity, how do you think you'd benefit from what Jesus peace and blessing be upon him, taught?

I ask this, as a former Christian and a person who adores Jesus so much, I ask becuase, Jesus peace and blessing be upon him spoke what Allah told him to speak, and Allah guided Jesus peace and blessing be upon him, to be a Messenger to the Children of Israel, as the Qu'ran states, so I do not see in what way we benefit from Jesus' peace and blessings be upon him lessons, having said that, I will type something I loved reading about him, its amazing, its from the 'Stories of the Prophets' By Ibn Kathir published Darussalam, starting at the bottom of page 568 onwards it says:

"Ibn Abu Ad-Dunya has narrated from Fudail bin Iyaadh, saying: Prophet Isa was asked: "O Jesus! How do you walk on water?" He replied: "With my faith (in Allah) and certainty." They said: "But we also have faith as you have faith, and we also have certainty as you have certainly. *i think thats a sp mistake they have* Jesus said: "So come and walk." So they walked with him on the waves, and then drowned. Jesus said to them: "What happened to you?" They said: "We are frightened of the waves." Jesus replied: " Do you not fear the Lord of the waves?" Then he took them out of the water. Then he stroked the earth with his hand, and took its dust, and when he opened them, there was gold in one hand and pebbles in another. He asked them: "Which one do you like most?" They said: "Gold." He said: "But they are just the same to me."

Jesus wore clothes made of wool, ate from leaves, and had no home, no family, no wealth and property, and nothing to save for tomorow. It is said that he ate from the earning of his mother out of her spinning work.

Sha'bi said: Whenever the Day of Judgement was mentioned to him, he cried, and said: "It is not fitting for the son of Mary that the Day of Judgement is mentioned in front of him, and he keeps quiet."

Jesus said to his disciples: "As the kings and rulers have left the wisdom for you, you leave the Dunya (the materials) for them."

He also said: "Ask me, I am a king-hearted person, and I am insignificant in my own eyes."

And the thing goes on I sure can't wait to meet him peace be upon him, inshaAllah, that would be so cool.

 

[doodlebug]

Doodlebug, just out of curiousity, how do you think you'd benefit from what Jesus peace and blessing be upon him, taught?

I ask this, as a former Christian and a person who adores Jesus so much, I ask becuase, Jesus peace and blessing be upon him spoke what Allah told him to speak, and Allah guided Jesus peace and blessing be upon him, to be a Messenger to the Children of Israel, as the Qu'ran states, so I do not see in what way we benefit from Jesus' peace and blessings be upon him lessons,

assalamu alaykum brother

I guess I'd have to ask then how do you know that you or I are not ancestors of the Children of Israel who converted when they heard the message of Jesus, pbuh? Personally I've tried to retrace my ancestory and I can only go back to ireland in 1800's. Who knows what I was back in 33AD.

:?

 

[lavikor201]

assalamu alaykum brother

I guess I'd have to ask then how do you know that you or I are not ancestors of the Children of Israel who converted when they heard the message of Jesus, pbuh? Personally I've tried to retrace my ancestory and I can only go back to ireland in 1800's. Who knows what I was back in 33AD.

:?

Would you not have a certain genetic code that many Jews hold?

I find it interesting that as Black/Middle Eastern Jew my DNA when I took part i a study was actually closer to a White man from Poland than I was to a Palestinian, or Ethiopian non-Jew.

 

[doodlebug]

Would you not have a certain genetic code that many Jews hold?

I find it interesting that as Black/Middle Eastern Jew my DNA when I took part i a study was actually closer to a White man from Poland than I was to a Palestinian, or Ethiopian non-Jew.

I don't even know where I'd go to get tested to see if I had the DNA of a jew. Is there such a thing even? That sounds strange to me.

 

[lavikor201]

I don't even know where I'd go to get tested to see if I had the DNA of a jew. Is there such a thing even? That sounds strange to me.

It actually is not very starnge they did a huge scientific study in Jerusalem, and I was mesmarized to find my DNA was closer to a European Jew from Poland than to a Palestinian. The only period of time Jews intermarried a lot was when they were exiled to Europe, which altered there apearence I would believe a lot, but Jewish law states that if your mother is Jewish than you are a Jew, therefore, a child with a Middle eastern mother and an Irish father with blue eyes blonde hair could have a kid and the kid could look the farthest from me, yet have more DNA connection to me, a product of black and middleeastern Jews, because intermarriage in a short time did not cancell so many of the DNA signatures Jews held more not intermarrying for so long.

 

[Umar001]

assalamu alaykum brother

I guess I'd have to ask then how do you know that you or I are not ancestors of the Children of Israel who converted when they heard the message of Jesus, pbuh? Personally I've tried to retrace my ancestory and I can only go back to ireland in 1800's. Who knows what I was back in 33AD.

:?

Wa Aleykum Salam Wa Rhametulah

Well, again, Jesus was sent to the Children of Israel, and his message was for a specific time, see, so even the Children of Israel of now, do not need the Message of Jesus, since a new message has come to them, the Message given to Muhammad, so in honesty it dont matter if we are children of Israel now, the law we should follow is that of Muhammad, Jesus' law, was for a time and place, and that time and place has passed.

Hope you enjoyed the extract from the book, I love it.

 

[duskiness]

I find it interesting that as Black/Middle Eastern Jew my DNA when I took part i a study was actually closer to a White man from Poland than I was to a Palestinian, or Ethiopian non-Jew.

LOL..it goes both ways. i've read that Poles have more gens in common with Jews than with Germans. When polish women are making genetic tests for breast cancer, doctors are searching for mutation in two "spots"- one is typicala for Slavic nations, the other for Jews
back to subject:

Well that's a bummer because although I love reading the Quran I would also like to benefit from what Jesus, peace be upon him, taught, which isn't really talked about too much in the Quran. I mean I know that the Quran describes him and all that but not really all that he said is in there.

So maybe simply try reading Gospels? You will reject what goes against Quran, and maybe find inspration in th rest (even if it's "corrupted"). Gospels are shorter that Quran and easier too read, so it want take you that much time. In the end, it's one of the most important texts in history.

 

[doodlebug]

So maybe simply try reading Gospels? You will reject what goes against Quran, and maybe find inspration in th rest (even if it's "corrupted"). Gospels are shorter that Quran and easier too read, so it want take you that much time. In the end, it's one of the most important texts in history.

I was Catholic for 40 years...trust me I've read the Gospels. I'm just trying to weed out the info that was not corrupted is all.

I know that the new and final message is from the Qur'an but in my mind it complements the Torah and the Bible, not replaces them. There are many many helpful things that Jesus, pbuh, said to the Children of Israel and I would not want to lose them.

I think I'll buy the Gospel of Q and use that as a supplement to the Qur'an.

 

[Umar001]

I think I'll buy the Gospel of Q and use that as a supplement to the Qur'an.

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah

It is totally upto you what you do, I will just repeat what the brother said:

`Umar brought to the Prophet (peace be upon him) a book that he had gotten from some of the People of the Scripture. `Umar read to him from it, which angered the Prophet (peace be upon him). He said: “I have brought to you what is clear and pure. Do not ask them about anything, lest they inform you of something true and you deny it or inform you of something false and you believe it. I swear by Him in whose hand is my soul, if Moses were alive today, he would do naught but follow me.” [ Musnad Ahmad (3/387)]

The only source we should use, without Suppliment, is the Qu'ran and Sunnah, I do not understand why you'd wanna use a message which is supposed to be for someone else at another time.

Anyhow, sister, the Gospel Q, Quelle, is a theory, you cannot purchase it, they do not know what it is, they render it to be a source which some of the Gospel writers freely used, and took quotes from to make their own gospel.

Peace be upon you

 

[Fishman]

The only source we should use, without Suppliment, is the Qu'ran and Sunnah, I do not understand why you'd wanna use a message which is supposed to be for someone else at another time.

Doodlebug's probably just curious. Even I'm interested in what the previous messages were like, not to follow them, but to just see what's in there.

I think the way that non-corrupted pieces of text show through best is in the prophecies. I remember one of Jesus (pbuh)'s Biblical prophecies that is of similar accuracy to Muhammad (pbuh)'s predictions. However, whilst in the Bible there are loads of vague fake prophecies, in the Hadith (and in the Quran, but there are fewer prophecies in the Quran) they are all very precise and accurate.

 

[Umar001]

Assalamu Aleykum Wa Rhametulah

Doodlebug's probably just curious. Even I'm interested in what the previous messages were like, not to follow them, but to just see what's in there.

Hey even I'm curious, I see that you say that you wouldnt follow it, then I have no objection, it is only when someone says 'I'll follow Jesus' or Moses' Message along side the Qurana nd Sunnah, peace be upon both of them.'

Then I personally disagree, as for just wanting to see, then I mean I admit I would love to be able to have the Torah and Injeel and Zabur.

I think the way that non-corrupted pieces of text show through best is in the prophecies. I remember one of Jesus (pbuh)'s Biblical prophecies that is of similar accuracy to Muhammad (pbuh)'s predictions. However, whilst in the Bible there are loads of vague fake prophecies, in the Hadith (and in the Quran, but there are fewer prophecies in the Quran) they are all very precise and accurate.

I don't think the looking at propechy would show you which text is real, for example the prophecy could have been inserted later, or maybe it could have been a logical guess, or even if it was a genuine prophecy, how would you know upto which verse after it is stil the words of that author?

So when I see someone saying they would take what they find to be uncorrupt, alongside the Quran as a source of authority I worry, first because we have been told that Muhammad's law, peace be upon him, is the one for us now, and I would worry because I would find it an impossible task to be able to root out the truth from falsehood in curropt texts.

 

[lavikor201]

LOL..it goes both ways. i've read that Poles have more gens in common with Jews than with Germans.

I would love to see where you heard that, since there are severe differences in the DNA and continue to be because Jews refused to intermarry.