Sabianism
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Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
I hope we do! Unless I am a figment of my own imagination. :brother: It might be that you are confusing Sabians with Sabaeans which were the people from Saba who are mentioned in the Quran as a past nation as far as I can remember. One of the remnants of the Sabaean tribes (the Ansar) were supposed to have also been Sabian by religion too which would explain some more of the confusion. In Arabic the confusion does not exist because the two words are spelled with completely different initial letters Sabaean is spelled with a Sheen, and Sabian is spelled with a Saad. you can have a look at http://www.sebomenoi.com for more info. There are some very informative links on that site, even though the site itself is quite shabby.
I hope we do! Unless I am a figment of my own imagination. :brother: It might be that you are confusing Sabians with Sabaeans which were the people from Saba who are mentioned in the Quran as a past nation as far as I can remember. One of the remnants of the Sabaean tribes (the Ansar) were supposed to have also been Sabian by religion too which would explain some more of the confusion. In Arabic the confusion does not exist because the two words are spelled with completely different initial letters Sabaean is spelled with a Sheen, and Sabian is spelled with a Saad. you can have a look at http://www.sebomenoi.com for more info. There are some very informative links on that site, even though the site itself is quite shabby.
primitivefuture
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Re: Atheism
Do Sabians believe in a God?
Do Sabians believe in a God?
primitivefuture
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Re: Atheism
What is the difference between Sabians and Muslims?
What is the difference between Sabians and Muslims?
Re: Atheism
brother primitivefuture
Is the Pope a Catholic?:happy:
Yes we do. The Sabi Shahada is "La ilahah il Allah".
If you have any more questions about Sabians please read through this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/depth-islam/3610-tafsir-al-quran-what-sabian.html I will be happy to answer any questions there on the matter.
:brother:
brother primitivefutureIs the Pope a Catholic?:happy:
Yes we do. The Sabi Shahada is "La ilahah il Allah".
If you have any more questions about Sabians please read through this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/depth-islam/3610-tafsir-al-quran-what-sabian.html I will be happy to answer any questions there on the matter.
:brother:
Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
WOW! this forum is really high-tech!
Its very cool that the messages get moved to the right place just like that.
So to answe your questions Br Primitivefuture, there are two kinds of Sabi namely Sabi`ah Hunafa` and Sabi`ah Mushrikoon. Of course I will answer your question brother only from the Sabi`ah Hunafa` perspective unless otherwise indicated, because I am a Sabi Haneef. The difference between Sabians and Muslims (with a capital M) is that Sabians are the same kind of monotheistic muslim (with a small m) that existed before the Quran was revealed. However, Sabis use faith and reasoning to arrive at understanding rather than pure faith, and a sabi is not expected to believe in anything that one has questions over. Thus we have very infrequently been mistakenly called Thomasines because people say we have weak faith like Doubting Thomas the disciple of `Isa (SAW) who would only believe what he saw.
Although it is considered a blessing and a salvation to believe in the prophets and to copy their example, it is not compulsory neither is it expected to be done blindly without critical thinking. Hence some people call us philosophers, but this is not accurate either.
Hope this helps.
:brother:
WOW! this forum is really high-tech!
Its very cool that the messages get moved to the right place just like that.
So to answe your questions Br Primitivefuture, there are two kinds of Sabi namely Sabi`ah Hunafa` and Sabi`ah Mushrikoon. Of course I will answer your question brother only from the Sabi`ah Hunafa` perspective unless otherwise indicated, because I am a Sabi Haneef. The difference between Sabians and Muslims (with a capital M) is that Sabians are the same kind of monotheistic muslim (with a small m) that existed before the Quran was revealed. However, Sabis use faith and reasoning to arrive at understanding rather than pure faith, and a sabi is not expected to believe in anything that one has questions over. Thus we have very infrequently been mistakenly called Thomasines because people say we have weak faith like Doubting Thomas the disciple of `Isa (SAW) who would only believe what he saw.
Although it is considered a blessing and a salvation to believe in the prophets and to copy their example, it is not compulsory neither is it expected to be done blindly without critical thinking. Hence some people call us philosophers, but this is not accurate either.
Hope this helps.
:brother:
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Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
Thank you sister.
I should perhaps make it clear that even though Sabi`een seem pretty close to Muslims, we are basically followers of `Isa (SAW) though we differer from Christians on a few important points. E.g. we are strictly Haneef and we support The Din. And Sabi Hell is called as-Sa'eer.
Thank you sister.
I should perhaps make it clear that even though Sabi`een seem pretty close to Muslims, we are basically followers of `Isa (SAW) though we differer from Christians on a few important points. E.g. we are strictly Haneef and we support The Din. And Sabi Hell is called as-Sa'eer.
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seek.learn
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Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
Assalam o alaikum wa rahmatullah,
SubhanAllah! Just today, a few hours back, I was wondering about the Sabians and was considering searching the Internet in hopes for some authentic information.
I have learnt a lot today.
JazakAllah.
Alaikum Salaam wa rahmatullah
Assalam o alaikum wa rahmatullah,
SubhanAllah! Just today, a few hours back, I was wondering about the Sabians and was considering searching the Internet in hopes for some authentic information.
I have learnt a lot today.
JazakAllah.
Alaikum Salaam wa rahmatullah
glo
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Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a sabian?in the qu'ran
How interesting to read about your faith! :thankyou:
The highlighted part of the above sentence caught my eye, because to my interpretation it seems different to the Islamic view I encounter in this forum, where the interpretation of the Qu'ran seems to be more the responsibility of scholars and imams rather than that of individuals ...
Would you say that Sabians place a greater emphasis on personal responsibility than mainstream Islam does?
Peace.
Hi Sabi
How interesting to read about your faith! :thankyou:
The highlighted part of the above sentence caught my eye, because to my interpretation it seems different to the Islamic view I encounter in this forum, where the interpretation of the Qu'ran seems to be more the responsibility of scholars and imams rather than that of individuals ...
Would you say that Sabians place a greater emphasis on personal responsibility than mainstream Islam does?
Peace.
Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
Shalom Glo,
Yes Sibghatullah ("sabianism") places severe emphasis on personal responsibility. No we do not interpret the Quran willy nilly. Basically (this is only according to what I know from my teacher Abu Yahiah formerly of Herat Gazarga Afghanistan) Sabi scholars who were introduced to the Quran long ago, read it and found nothing in it which contradicts the Sabi faith but was in complete agreement with what we believe. Hence we accept that it is a revealed book. Indeed the Sabi tradition is that Muhammad (SAW) was a true prophet. However, I have come accross Muslims who have explained some things to me in a way which I can say is completely contrary to Sabi belief. Also there are certain Hadith which I have been told about (they were probably very weak non-sahih hadith) which would contradict the Sabi belief in Muhammad (SAW) as a true prophet. I am sure therefore that it is because of such differences, that the Sabi`een remained distinct from the Muslim community which began to grow after the death of The Prophet (SAW).
You must understand that there is no single way of interpreting the meanings of the glorious Quran in traditional orthodox Islam. Even though since 1975 there has been an heavily funded Saudi campaign to promote one opinion for the present (I think it is because of logistics with regards to Hajj emmerging with the modern world), there has always been a pluraliy of interpretations within the different Madhabs permissable within the folds of islam. I think the best phrase perhaps is parallel lines of thought. I was assured that the Sabi understanding is in complete harmony with at least some of those interpretations, with a few unique exceptions specifically with regards to the meanings of about five phrases in the entire Quran which were immediately recognizeable to the Sabi paradigm, but which have long since come to be understood in a very different way by other post-Quranic Muslims.
However, Sabi`een are not arrogant enough to consider these conventional interpretations to be misguided. In the Sabi view, "whoever followed (the Prophets) is blessed and saved" (Ibn Qayyim). Hence all muslims are considered to be within the folds of Sibghatullah even if they do not consider us to be in the folds of Islam. It is enough for us that we share the common ground of promoting the Din.
Hope this helps.
Shalom Glo,
Yes Sibghatullah ("sabianism") places severe emphasis on personal responsibility. No we do not interpret the Quran willy nilly. Basically (this is only according to what I know from my teacher Abu Yahiah formerly of Herat Gazarga Afghanistan) Sabi scholars who were introduced to the Quran long ago, read it and found nothing in it which contradicts the Sabi faith but was in complete agreement with what we believe. Hence we accept that it is a revealed book. Indeed the Sabi tradition is that Muhammad (SAW) was a true prophet. However, I have come accross Muslims who have explained some things to me in a way which I can say is completely contrary to Sabi belief. Also there are certain Hadith which I have been told about (they were probably very weak non-sahih hadith) which would contradict the Sabi belief in Muhammad (SAW) as a true prophet. I am sure therefore that it is because of such differences, that the Sabi`een remained distinct from the Muslim community which began to grow after the death of The Prophet (SAW).
You must understand that there is no single way of interpreting the meanings of the glorious Quran in traditional orthodox Islam. Even though since 1975 there has been an heavily funded Saudi campaign to promote one opinion for the present (I think it is because of logistics with regards to Hajj emmerging with the modern world), there has always been a pluraliy of interpretations within the different Madhabs permissable within the folds of islam. I think the best phrase perhaps is parallel lines of thought. I was assured that the Sabi understanding is in complete harmony with at least some of those interpretations, with a few unique exceptions specifically with regards to the meanings of about five phrases in the entire Quran which were immediately recognizeable to the Sabi paradigm, but which have long since come to be understood in a very different way by other post-Quranic Muslims.
However, Sabi`een are not arrogant enough to consider these conventional interpretations to be misguided. In the Sabi view, "whoever followed (the Prophets) is blessed and saved" (Ibn Qayyim). Hence all muslims are considered to be within the folds of Sibghatullah even if they do not consider us to be in the folds of Islam. It is enough for us that we share the common ground of promoting the Din.
Hope this helps.
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glo
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Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
Keep talking ... I'm listening!
Blessings.
(edited to remove sentence)
Yes, it's very helpful and informative.
Keep talking ... I'm listening!
Blessings.
(edited to remove sentence)
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glo
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Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
Can you explain in more detail what you mean by "we are basically followers of `Isa (SAW) though we differer from Christians on a few important points."?
Peace.
Hi Sabi
Can you explain in more detail what you mean by "we are basically followers of `Isa (SAW) though we differer from Christians on a few important points."?
Peace.
Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
Well, we are much more concerned about pure monotheism than are most christians. Basically it comes down to a picture of the throne. Isa (SAW) is the head in the right hand, while Adon Joshua is that which sits upon the shoulders of the right hand. Abina is IN the throne, and hence is in Isa and in his mantle Adon Joshua, but Abina's Name (Allah) is high exulted beyond all association. Yet it is known by all those around the throne, hence also by Isa (SAW), hence his ability to perform miracles (by Allah's leave).
BTW Here is a very interesting (though quite seriously academic) article about Sabi`een from a non-sabi source (orientalist perspective) which is more objective for a western audience than anything I am likely to tell you.
http://www.ricerchefilosofiche.it/Sabians completo TNR 12_10.htm
Of course Sabi`een would criticize oritentalists talking about the Sibghatullah as much as other Muslims would criticize orientalists talking about Islam, but even so these two italian scholars have done quite a good job indeed.
Well, we are much more concerned about pure monotheism than are most christians. Basically it comes down to a picture of the throne. Isa (SAW) is the head in the right hand, while Adon Joshua is that which sits upon the shoulders of the right hand. Abina is IN the throne, and hence is in Isa and in his mantle Adon Joshua, but Abina's Name (Allah) is high exulted beyond all association. Yet it is known by all those around the throne, hence also by Isa (SAW), hence his ability to perform miracles (by Allah's leave).
BTW Here is a very interesting (though quite seriously academic) article about Sabi`een from a non-sabi source (orientalist perspective) which is more objective for a western audience than anything I am likely to tell you.
http://www.ricerchefilosofiche.it/Sabians completo TNR 12_10.htm
Of course Sabi`een would criticize oritentalists talking about the Sibghatullah as much as other Muslims would criticize orientalists talking about Islam, but even so these two italian scholars have done quite a good job indeed.
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glo
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Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
I gather Abina is what you call God (?) Is it his name? Or a title?
Isa is Jesus?
Who is Adon Joshua?
Thanks for your link.
I'm afraid it will take me ages to read it all - let alone to understand it! ;D
Any chance that there is a condensed version I could read instead?
Thanks!
Hi Sabi
I gather Abina is what you call God (?) Is it his name? Or a title?
Isa is Jesus?
Who is Adon Joshua?
Thanks for your link.
I'm afraid it will take me ages to read it all - let alone to understand it! ;D
Any chance that there is a condensed version I could read instead?
Thanks!
Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
Well there is always the Godfearers.Com website, I suppose, but it is a subjective approach rather than an objective one.
There is an OK article under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabians at wikipedia right now, but some western orientalist free-mason wants to remove all references to historical arabic refeences, so I doubt it will remain close enough to accurate for much longer.
Adon Jehoshua is the archetypeal heavenly messiah seated at The Right Hand.
Isa is Rish of the human brethren (and angelic host like for example Gabriel) constituting The Right Hand. Abina is the Spirit of God which resides in Heaven (i.e. in The Throne) which we call Our Father.
It is actually all very very simple, too simple in fact but people don't always get it because they are looking for more than there is. All of this is in the Zaboor.
P.S. Sabi'een is the collective term for both Sabi'ah Hunafa' and Sabi'ah Mushrikoon, but Sabi'oon refers only to the Sabi'ah Hunafa'.
Well there is always the Godfearers.Com website, I suppose, but it is a subjective approach rather than an objective one.
There is an OK article under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabians at wikipedia right now, but some western orientalist free-mason wants to remove all references to historical arabic refeences, so I doubt it will remain close enough to accurate for much longer.
Adon Jehoshua is the archetypeal heavenly messiah seated at The Right Hand.
Isa is Rish of the human brethren (and angelic host like for example Gabriel) constituting The Right Hand. Abina is the Spirit of God which resides in Heaven (i.e. in The Throne) which we call Our Father.
It is actually all very very simple, too simple in fact but people don't always get it because they are looking for more than there is. All of this is in the Zaboor.
P.S. Sabi'een is the collective term for both Sabi'ah Hunafa' and Sabi'ah Mushrikoon, but Sabi'oon refers only to the Sabi'ah Hunafa'.
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Re: [Tafsir Al-Qur'an] What is a Sabian?
Mustafa Allah. `Isa (SAW) was a Human being!! High exaulted be Allah (SWT) beyond all they associate with Him!
Salaam Cheese,
We do not compare ourselves to Muslims, we are what we are. Perhaps you should try reading through this thread again more carefully since it seems you have some massive misconceptions.
Study well.
Mustafa Allah. `Isa (SAW) was a Human being!! High exaulted be Allah (SWT) beyond all they associate with Him!
Salaam Cheese,
We do not compare ourselves to Muslims, we are what we are. Perhaps you should try reading through this thread again more carefully since it seems you have some massive misconceptions.
Study well.