Saddam Hussein

[MENTION=42224]JustTime[/MENTION]

How are you going to provide evidence? First, for which statement? You are talking about the disbelief of a ~600 year lasting state, or maybe the disbelief of the Ottoman dynastic family - ambiguity in takfir target already suggests the ambiguity of your mind and evidences. This is not the Islamic way of talking, if its concerns you seriously. I doubt that you have sufficient historical information to talk on this matter. Just taking what you come across and avoiding any serious research one cannot make any judgement on questions relating Islam.

"They were disbelievers...all of them"
Click to expand...
Who are you talking about? As for sultans, if you assume that authorizing the construction of shrines is disbelief, than bring your proof.
 
Yahya. said:
[MENTION=42224]JustTime[/MENTION]

How are you going to provide evidence? First, for which statement? You are talking about the disbelief of a ~600 year lasting state, or maybe the disbelief of the Ottoman dynastic family - ambiguity in takfir target already suggests the ambiguity of your mind and evidences. This is not the Islamic way of talking, if its concerns you seriously. I doubt that you have sufficient historical information to talk on this matter. Just taking what you come across and avoiding any serious research one cannot make any judgement on questions relating Islam.


Who are you talking about? As for sultans, if you assume that authorizing the construction of shrines is disbelief, than bring your proof.
Click to expand...

I think this brother has misconceptions but hope that at the end of the day he will realize the error of his ways.
 
Yahya. said:
[MENTION=42224]JustTime[/MENTION]

How are you going to provide evidence? First, for which statement? You are talking about the disbelief of a ~600 year lasting state, or maybe the disbelief of the Ottoman dynastic family - ambiguity in takfir target already suggests the ambiguity of your mind and evidences. This is not the Islamic way of talking, if its concerns you seriously. I doubt that you have sufficient historical information to talk on this matter. Just taking what you come across and avoiding any serious research one cannot make any judgement on questions relating Islam.


Who are you talking about? As for sultans, if you assume that authorizing the construction of shrines is disbelief, than bring your proof.
Click to expand...
I already did provide proof and if you didnt see it, you're either deaf, dumb or blind.
 
Yahya. said:
@JustTime

How are you going to provide evidence? First, for which statement? You are talking about the disbelief of a ~600 year lasting state, or maybe the disbelief of the Ottoman dynastic family - ambiguity in takfir target already suggests the ambiguity of your mind and evidences. This is not the Islamic way of talking, if its concerns you seriously. I doubt that you have sufficient historical information to talk on this matter. Just taking what you come across and avoiding any serious research one cannot make any judgement on questions relating Islam.


Who are you talking about? As for sultans, if you assume that authorizing the construction of shrines is disbelief, than bring your proof.
Click to expand...

And Allah said in his speech:
وَٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ مَسْجِدًا ضِرَارًا وَكُفْرًا وَتَفْرِيقًۢا بَيْنَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَإِرْصَادًا لِّمَنْ حَارَبَ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُۥ مِن قَبْلُ ۚ وَلَيَحْلِفُنَّ إِنْ أَرَدْنَآ إِلَّا ٱلْحُسْنَىٰ ۖ

And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; But Allah doth declare that they are certainly liars.
Surah Tawbah Ayah 107

(If we come back from our travel, Allah willing.) When the Messenger of Allah came back from Tabuk and was approximately one or two days away from Al-Madinah, Jibril came down to him with the news about Masjid Ad-Dirar and the disbelief and division between the believers, who were in Masjid Quba' (which was built on piety from the first day), that Masjid Ad-Dirar was meant to achieve. Therefore, the Messenger of Allah sent some people to Masjid Ad-Dirar to bring it down before he reached Al-Madinah. `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said about this Ayah (9:107), "They are some people of the Ansar to whom Abu `Amir said, `Build a Masjid and prepare whatever you can of power and weapons, for I am headed towards Caesar, emperor of Rome, to bring Roman soldiers with whom I will expel Muhammad and his companions.' When they built their Masjid, they went to the Prophet and said to him, "We finished building our Masjid and we would like you pray in it and invoke Allah for us for His blessings
Tafsir ibn Kathir on 9:107

قال ابن قيم "لا يجوز إبقاء مواضع الشرك والطواغيت بعد القدرة على هدمها وإبطالها يوما واحدا فإنها شعائر الكفر والشرك وهي أعظم المنكرات فلا يجوز الإقرار عليها مع القدرة البتة."

Ibn Qayyim :rahm: said: It is not permissible to keep the positions of shirk and tyrants after the ability to destroy them and invalidate them for one day, for they are the rituals of kufr and shirk, which are the greatest evils.


Narrated 'Aisha:
When the Prophet became ill, some of his wives talked about a Ethiopia and it was called Mariya. Um Salma and Um Habiba had been to Ethiopia, and both of them narrated its (the Church's) beauty and the pictures it contained. The Prophet raised his head and said, "Those are the people who, whenever a pious man dies amongst them, make a place of worship at his grave and then they make those pictures in it. Those are the worst creatures in the Sight of Allah."
Sahih Bukhari
 
[MENTION=42224]JustTime[/MENTION]:

Islam came to destroy the idols. Our prophet s.a.w hated idols.

But what about them who love to preserve the idols in museum...?

Be honest in saying truth...!
http://www.irshad-ul-islam.com/showthread.php?3974-Idols-worshiped-by-wahhabi-salafi-ancestors

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR][TD] Idols worshiped by wahhabi/salafi ancestors
http://i.imgur.com/Ljz32.gif The National Museum of Saudi Arabia was opened in Riyadh in 1999 to celebrate centenary (100 year) of Saudi occupation of Arabian Peninsula. It was designed by Moriyama & Teshima Planners, Canada, the winners of Intl Design Competition for this Museum. http://i.imgur.com/VsbQs.gif Riyadh Museum at Night: Among other ancient artifacts, the Museum houses ancient Idol Gods which were worshiped by Saudi ancestors. These Idols are reported to have...[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

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Note: I disagree with author that wahabis/salafis worship idols.
But what about preservation...?
 
JustTime said:
And Allah said in his speech:
وَٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ مَسْجِدًا ضِرَارًا وَكُفْرًا وَتَفْرِيقًۢا بَيْنَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَإِرْصَادًا لِّمَنْ حَارَبَ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُۥ مِن قَبْلُ ۚ وَلَيَحْلِفُنَّ إِنْ أَرَدْنَآ إِلَّا ٱلْحُسْنَىٰ ۖ

And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; But Allah doth declare that they are certainly liars.
Surah Tawbah Ayah 107

(If we come back from our travel, Allah willing.) When the Messenger of Allah came back from Tabuk and was approximately one or two days away from Al-Madinah, Jibril came down to him with the news about Masjid Ad-Dirar and the disbelief and division between the believers, who were in Masjid Quba' (which was built on piety from the first day), that Masjid Ad-Dirar was meant to achieve. Therefore, the Messenger of Allah sent some people to Masjid Ad-Dirar to bring it down before he reached Al-Madinah. `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said about this Ayah (9:107), "They are some people of the Ansar to whom Abu `Amir said, `Build a Masjid and prepare whatever you can of power and weapons, for I am headed towards Caesar, emperor of Rome, to bring Roman soldiers with whom I will expel Muhammad and his companions.' When they built their Masjid, they went to the Prophet and said to him, "We finished building our Masjid and we would like you pray in it and invoke Allah for us for His blessings
Tafsir ibn Kathir on 9:107

قال ابن قيم "لا يجوز إبقاء مواضع الشرك والطواغيت بعد القدرة على هدمها وإبطالها يوما واحدا فإنها شعائر الكفر والشرك وهي أعظم المنكرات فلا يجوز الإقرار عليها مع القدرة البتة."

Ibn Qayyim :rahm: said: It is not permissible to keep the positions of shirk and tyrants after the ability to destroy them and invalidate them for one day, for they are the rituals of kufr and shirk, which are the greatest evils.


Narrated 'Aisha:
When the Prophet became ill, some of his wives talked about a Ethiopia and it was called Mariya. Um Salma and Um Habiba had been to Ethiopia, and both of them narrated its (the Church's) beauty and the pictures it contained. The Prophet raised his head and said, "Those are the people who, whenever a pious man dies amongst them, make a place of worship at his grave and then they make those pictures in it. Those are the worst creatures in the Sight of Allah."
Sahih Bukhari
Click to expand...

No, bro, you failed to provide specific proof concerning the matter.
 
azc said:
@JustTime:

Islam came to destroy the idols. Our prophet s.a.w hated idols.

But what about them who love to preserve the idols in museum...?

Be honest in saying truth...!
http://www.irshad-ul-islam.com/showthread.php?3974-Idols-worshiped-by-wahhabi-salafi-ancestors

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD] Idols worshiped by wahhabi/salafi ancestors
http://i.imgur.com/Ljz32.gif The National Museum of Saudi Arabia was opened in Riyadh in 1999 to celebrate centenary (100 year) of Saudi occupation of Arabian Peninsula. It was designed by Moriyama & Teshima Planners, Canada, the winners of Intl Design Competition for this Museum. http://i.imgur.com/VsbQs.gif Riyadh Museum at Night: Among other ancient artifacts, the Museum houses ancient Idol Gods which were worshiped by Saudi ancestors. These Idols are reported to have...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

- - - Updated - - -

Note: I disagree with author that wahabis/salafis worship idols.
But what about preservation...?
Click to expand...


Those idols should not be allowed regardless if it is in a museum. I was dissappointed when they allowed the Ritz Carlton Riyahh to place these horses in the lobby:

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=i...&biw=1920&bih=949&dpr=1#imgrc=1EBu_v5UQMkFIM:
 
Last edited:
Misbah-Abd said:
Those idols should not be allowed regardless if it is in a museum. I was dissappointed when they allowed the Ritz Carlton Riyahh to place these horses in the lobby:

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=i...&biw=1920&bih=949&dpr=1#imgrc=1EBu_v5UQMkFIM:
Click to expand...

Sadly, truthful scholars are imprisoned for speaking the truth. Even today many scholars are behind the bar for criticising the wrong policies of Saudi government.

Sh al suraim may be the next target for his truthfulness.
 
azc said:
[MENTION=42224]JustTime[/MENTION]:

Islam came to destroy the idols. Our prophet s.a.w hated idols.

But what about them who love to preserve the idols in museum...?

Be honest in saying truth...!
http://www.irshad-ul-islam.com/showthread.php?3974-Idols-worshiped-by-wahhabi-salafi-ancestors

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR][TD] Idols worshiped by wahhabi/salafi ancestors
http://i.imgur.com/Ljz32.gif The National Museum of Saudi Arabia was opened in Riyadh in 1999 to celebrate centenary (100 year) of Saudi occupation of Arabian Peninsula. It was designed by Moriyama & Teshima Planners, Canada, the winners of Intl Design Competition for this Museum. http://i.imgur.com/VsbQs.gif Riyadh Museum at Night: Among other ancient artifacts, the Museum houses ancient Idol Gods which were worshiped by Saudi ancestors. These Idols are reported to have...[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

- - - Updated - - -

Note: I disagree with author that wahabis/salafis worship idols.
But what about preservation...?
Click to expand...
If they are perserving items that are Shirki then they are Kufar.
 
JustTime said:
If they are perserving items that are Shirki then they are Kufar.
Click to expand...

stop...stop, my bro.

I can't label them as kafir, however, this kind of preservation of idols may lead them to kufr.


Allah swt knows best
 
azc said:
stop...stop, my bro.

I can't label them as kafir, however, this kind of preservation of idols may lead them to kufr.


Allah swt knows best
Click to expand...

Then they are no different than those who perserved the idols of Makkah and Dhul Khalasa
 
Ali ibn abi Talib radiallahu anhu said to abul hayyaj al asadi radiallahu anhu
“Shall I charge you with a duty which the Prophet salalahu alayhi wa salam charged me with? Destroy every idol or statue, and level down every raised grave.” (Sahih Muslim)

The Prophet salalahu alayhi wa salam forbade plastering graves, sitting on them, or erecting structures on them or to include it in a structure” (Sahih muslim)

From that which has reached us from the Sunnah is that the Prophet Muhammad salalahu alayhi wa salam forbade erecting structures on graves (as you will see contrary to the sunnah some amongst sufiya making domes over the graves of their so called awliya).

https://wayofthesalaf.wordpress.com/2007/06/20/leveling-raised-graves/
 
JustTime said:
Then they are no different than those who perserved the idols of Makkah and Dhul Khalasa
Click to expand...

No, there is a big difference between them.
Idol worshippers of makka preserved their idols to worship them whereas these modern deviants of Saudi Arab have preserved for tourists in order to earn money.

This act of theirs, indeed, is disgusting.
 
azc said:
No, there is a big difference between them.
Idol worshippers of makka preserved their idols to worship them whereas these modern deviants of Saudi Arab have preserved for tourists in order to earn money.

This act of theirs, indeed, is disgusting.
Click to expand...
It isnt any different
 
JustTime said:
And Allah said in his speech:
وَٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ مَسْجِدًا ضِرَارًا وَكُفْرًا وَتَفْرِيقًۢا بَيْنَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَإِرْصَادًا لِّمَنْ حَارَبَ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُۥ مِن قَبْلُ ۚ وَلَيَحْلِفُنَّ إِنْ أَرَدْنَآ إِلَّا ٱلْحُسْنَىٰ ۖ

And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; But Allah doth declare that they are certainly liars.
Surah Tawbah Ayah 107

(If we come back from our travel, Allah willing.) When the Messenger of Allah came back from Tabuk and was approximately one or two days away from Al-Madinah, Jibril came down to him with the news about Masjid Ad-Dirar and the disbelief and division between the believers, who were in Masjid Quba' (which was built on piety from the first day), that Masjid Ad-Dirar was meant to achieve. Therefore, the Messenger of Allah sent some people to Masjid Ad-Dirar to bring it down before he reached Al-Madinah. `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said about this Ayah (9:107), "They are some people of the Ansar to whom Abu `Amir said, `Build a Masjid and prepare whatever you can of power and weapons, for I am headed towards Caesar, emperor of Rome, to bring Roman soldiers with whom I will expel Muhammad and his companions.' When they built their Masjid, they went to the Prophet and said to him, "We finished building our Masjid and we would like you pray in it and invoke Allah for us for His blessings
Tafsir ibn Kathir on 9:107

قال ابن قيم "لا يجوز إبقاء مواضع الشرك والطواغيت بعد القدرة على هدمها وإبطالها يوما واحدا فإنها شعائر الكفر والشرك وهي أعظم المنكرات فلا يجوز الإقرار عليها مع القدرة البتة."

Ibn Qayyim :rahm: said: It is not permissible to keep the positions of shirk and tyrants after the ability to destroy them and invalidate them for one day, for they are the rituals of kufr and shirk, which are the greatest evils.


Narrated 'Aisha:
When the Prophet became ill, some of his wives talked about a Ethiopia and it was called Mariya. Um Salma and Um Habiba had been to Ethiopia, and both of them narrated its (the Church's) beauty and the pictures it contained. The Prophet raised his head and said, "Those are the people who, whenever a pious man dies amongst them, make a place of worship at his grave and then they make those pictures in it. Those are the worst creatures in the Sight of Allah."
Sahih Bukhari
Click to expand...

Is your sharh pending? These nusus do not contain any indication that those who build or preserve shrines are disbelievers.
 
Zzz_ said:
Ali ibn abi Talib radiallahu anhu said to abul hayyaj al asadi radiallahu anhu
“Shall I charge you with a duty which the Prophet salalahu alayhi wa salam charged me with? Destroy every idol or statue, and level down every raised grave.” (Sahih Muslim)

The Prophet salalahu alayhi wa salam forbade plastering graves, sitting on them, or erecting structures on them or to include it in a structure” (Sahih muslim)

From that which has reached us from the Sunnah is that the Prophet Muhammad salalahu alayhi wa salam forbade erecting structures on graves (as you will see contrary to the sunnah some amongst sufiya making domes over the graves of their so called awliya).

https://wayofthesalaf.wordpress.com/2007/06/20/leveling-raised-graves/
Click to expand...

And what is your fatwa about those who are preserving idols...?
 

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