Salah

Zafran said:
Lets end it here are you a Mujtahid? If not then Taqlid of one of the main schools of the Mujthaids is the way:). Clearly me and you are no Abu Hanifa or Imam Bukhari or malik or shafi or al gahzzali or shah dhelvi etc etc. Unless you are a mujthaid.
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'Are you a mujtahid?'

Mujtahids have always been the minority in the ummah, the vast majority of people have generally been laymen.

So your rhetoric also applies to the era of the best generations, i.e the salaf, as laymen who were not mujtahids also existed in extremely high numbers during their time.

Yet, the concept of exclusive taqleed of one madhhab, a.k.a taqleed shakshi was not present among them.

It only started during the fourth century.

So if your argumentation was indeed correct, then the laymen of the salaf would've surely done what you suggest, taqleed of one of the main schools. Sadly, no such thing happened, in fact those schools were formed later.
 
AbdullahAziz said:
this view is not just based on that hadith br. See azc's link. It is based on several sahih and hasan hadith. Several more that are only slightly weak so they back it up.
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Let's make this very easy - you can use any weak hadeeth to prove your position, but you still will not be able to prove the Hanafi views on a woman's salah.

Even with all those weak ahadeeth.
 
Linkdeutscher said:
Let's make this very easy - you can use any weak hadeeth to prove your position, but you still will not be able to prove the Hanafi views on a woman's salah.

Even with all those weak ahadeeth.
Click to expand...

It's the position of 4 madhab. Only a few scholars of our time went against the consensus of ummah.

Your stand is wrong.

Give only ONE hadith which proves that there is no difference in salah between men and women.

"Pray as you see me pray" is specific for men. See the hadith.
 
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Linkdeutscher said:
'Are you a mujtahid?'

Mujtahids have always been the minority in the ummah, the vast majority of people have generally been laymen.

So your rhetoric also applies to the era of the best generations, i.e the salaf, as laymen who were not mujtahids also existed in extremely high numbers during their time.

Yet, the concept of exclusive taqleed of one madhhab, a.k.a taqleed shakshi was not present among them.

It only started during the fourth century.

So if your argumentation was indeed correct, then the laymen of the salaf would've surely done what you suggest, taqleed of one of the main schools. Sadly, no such thing happened, in fact those schools were formed later.
Click to expand...

You sound as salafi. Salafis are also involved in taqllid shakhsi in form of following a specific set of scholars I.e. salafi scholars only.

DeobandI and barelvi follow their own scholars.

Denying taqllid shakhsi proves you a follower of your own scholars.

I follow 4 imams. I don't follow this age scholars if they go on different path in contrast to 4 imams
 
Linkdeutscher said:
'Are you a mujtahid?'

Mujtahids have always been the minority in the ummah, the vast majority of people have generally been laymen.

So your rhetoric also applies to the era of the best generations, i.e the salaf, as laymen who were not mujtahids also existed in extremely high numbers during their time.

Yet, the concept of exclusive taqleed of one madhhab, a.k.a taqleed shakshi was not present among them.

It only started during the fourth century.

So if your argumentation was indeed correct, then the laymen of the salaf would've surely done what you suggest, taqleed of one of the main schools. Sadly, no such thing happened, in fact those schools were formed later.
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He simply asked you "Are you a mujtahid"?
 
Linkdeutscher said:
In that case Imam Abu Haneefah was not a faqeeh, as he was not a hadeeth expert.
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oh no i mistakenly liked your post as Imam Abu Hanifa was a hadith expert too; see the prerequisites of a mujtahid; hadith mastery and expertise is one of them:

As for the conditions of the absolute and independent ijtihad, they are mentioned in the Maraqi as-sa’ud in the following line and what follows:
“And that [word ‘faqih’2] is synonymous with the [word] ‘mujtahid’ coupled with those things which bear upon [him] the burden of responsibility,
Such as his being of extreme intelligence by nature, and there is some debate about one who is known to reject juristic analogy [qiyas]
He knows the [juristic] responsibilities through intellectual proofs unless a clear transmitted proof indicates otherwise.
[Sidi Abdullah] says [in his commentary] Nashru al-bunud,
“This means that among the conditions of ijtihad is that [the mujtahid] knows that he must adhere to the intellectual proof which is the foundational condition [al-bara’atu al-asliyya3] until a transmitted proof from a sacred law indicates otherwise.”
He then goes on to mention the other conditions of a mujtahid:
[The sciences of] grammar, prosody, philology, combined with those of usul and rhetoric he must master.
According to the people of precision, [he must know] where the judgements can be found without the condition of having memorized the actual texts.
[All of the above must be known] according to a middle ranked mastery at least. He must also know those matters upon which there is consensus.
[Moreover, he must know] things such as the condition of single hadiths and what carries the authority of great numbers of transmissions; also [knowledge of] what is sound and what is weak is necessary.
Furthermore, what has been abrogated and what abrogates, as well as the conditions under which a verse was revealed or a hadith was transmitted is a condition that must be met.
The states of the narrators and the companions [must also be known]. Therefore, you may follow anyone who fulfils these conditions mentioned above according to the soundest opinion.

http://shaykhhamza.com/transcript/Fatwa-on-Following-a-Madhab
 
azc said:
You seem to be a Pakistani alhehadith.
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lol i know linkdeutcher!; he's from ummah forum but i'll keep my identity secret! :D

he is a die hard salafi!; he even has 'wahhabi' on his avatar over there!
 
AbdullahAziz said:
lol i know linkdeutcher!; he's from ummah forum but i'll keep my identity secret! :D

he is a die hard salafi!; he even has 'wahhabi' on his avatar over there!
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Is he from Pakistan ..?

For Pakistani alhehadith are stereotyped of this kind.
 
azc said:
Is he from Pakistan ..?

For Pakistani alhehadith are stereotyped of this kind.
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yes i can confirm that too; although he might be from India!:); he speaks urdu for sure!

but he is a good brother so lets not stereotype him!

poor misguided brothers and sisters; they're good at heart but dont know they are misguided but we'll soon make them see that! :Emoji51::Emoji47:
 
AbdullahAziz said:
yes i can confirm that too; although he might be from India!:); he speaks urdu for sure!

but he is a good brother so lets not stereotype him!

poor misguided brothers and sisters; they're good at heart but dont know they are misguided but we'll soon make them see that! :Emoji51::Emoji47:
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I don't know of him as you know.

Anyways thanks bro
 
AbdullahAziz said:
yes i can confirm that too; although he might be from India!:); he speaks urdu for sure!

but he is a good brother so lets not stereotype him!

poor misguided brothers and sisters; they're good at heart but dont know they are misguided but we'll soon make them see that! :Emoji51::Emoji47:
Click to expand...

And you think you are guided? Wow. Talk about arrogance.
 
azc said:
You sound as salafi. Salafis are also involved in taqllid shakhsi in form of following a specific set of scholars I.e. salafi scholars only.

DeobandI and barelvi follow their own scholars.

Denying taqllid shakhsi proves you a follower of your own scholars.

I follow 4 imams. I don't follow this age scholars if they go on different path in contrast to 4 imams
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Learn the definition of Taqliid before trying to use it.

Taqliid means to follow an opinion without knowing the evidence.

While your books come without evidence the books of the ahl al-Hadith/Salafi never come without evidence.

We do not blindly follow an Imaam when he says Witr is Waajib. We do not blindly follow an Imaam when he says Witr is a Sunnah.

Rather, he provides the evidence from where he got his opinion and we follow the evidence.

Learning evidence is different from making Ijtihaad.

That is not Taqliid per definition laid out by the likes of al-Subki.

Now once again please learn first and then throw around words.

Do you know the evidence of why your Imaam called Witr waajib though his two Companions disagreed with him?
 
AbdullahAziz said:
It's the fuqaha that decide wether a mursal hadith can be authentic for a prerequisite of a faqih is to be a hadith expert too.
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They don't. You need to learn before making erroneous statements like that. A faqiih needs to be a hadith expert but we have many examples where the faqiih has used a weak hadith.

Let's take those fuqahaa' among the Hanafis who have used the following weak hadith for their position that you cannot pray the funeral prayer in the mosque:

من صلى على جنازة في المسجد فلا شئ

al-Nawawi said in al-Majmuu' sharh al-Muhadhdhab regarding that narration:

(وأما) حديث أبي هريرة هذا (فجوابه) من أوجه (أحدها) أنه ضعيف باتفاق الحفاظ وممن نص على ضعفه الإمام أحمد بن حنبل وأبو بكر بن المنذر
والبيهقي وآخرون

[Paraphrase]

As for this hadith of Abu Hurairah then it is answered from many angles. One of them being that is weak by the consensus of the Huffaaz. Those who talked about it being weak included Ahmad bin Hanbal, Abu Bakr bin al-Mundhir, al-BaihaQi and others.

The Hanafi fuqahaa have used this weak hadith to forbid prayer in the mosque.

The Shaafi'i fuqahaa and Muhaddithuun have used the authentic narration in Sahih Muslim to permit it.

Please do not call others misguided while you clearly lack knowledge on a subject.


Reference(s):

al-Majmuu' sharh al-Muhadhdhab
Volume 5 Page 214
 
ZeeshanParvez said:
Learn the definition of Taqliid before trying to use it.

Taqliid means to follow an opinion without knowing the evidence.

While your books come without evidence the books of the ahl al-Hadith/Salafi never come without evidence.

We do not blindly follow an Imaam when he says Witr is Waajib. We do not blindly follow an Imaam when he says Witr is a Sunnah.

Rather, he provides the evidence from where he got his opinion and we follow the evidence.

Learning evidence is different from making Ijtihaad.

That is not Taqliid per definition laid out by the likes of al-Subki.

Now once again please learn first and then throw around words.

Do you know the evidence of why your Imaam called Witr waajib though his two Companions disagreed with him?
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Bro, you can't understand this point until you leave blind following of your scholars.

"My scholras, your imam "

Liberate yourself from this mentality.
 
ZeeshanParvez said:
They don't. You need to learn before making erroneous statements like that. A faqiih needs to be a hadith expert but we have many examples where the faqiih has used a weak hadith.

Let's take those fuqahaa' among the Hanafis who have used the following weak hadith for their position that you cannot pray the funeral prayer in the mosque:

من صلى على جنازة في المسجد فلا شئ

al-Nawawi said in al-Majmuu' sharh al-Muhadhdhab regarding that narration:

(وأما) حديث أبي هريرة هذا (فجوابه) من أوجه (أحدها) أنه ضعيف باتفاق الحفاظ وممن نص على ضعفه الإمام أحمد بن حنبل وأبو بكر بن المنذر
والبيهقي وآخرون

[Paraphrase]

As for this hadith of Abu Hurairah then it is answered from many angles. One of them being that is weak by the consensus of the Huffaaz. Those who talked about it being weak included Ahmad bin Hanbal, Abu Bakr bin al-Mundhir, al-BaihaQi and others.

The Hanafi fuqahaa have used this weak hadith to forbid prayer in the mosque.

The Shaafi'i fuqahaa and Muhaddithuun have used the authentic narration in Sahih Muslim to permit it.

Please do not call others misguided while you clearly lack knowledge on a subject.


Reference(s):

al-Majmuu' sharh al-Muhadhdhab
Volume 5 Page 214
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Fuqha are more reliable than muhaddidsin.


Here is whhat hanafi scholar says
http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2016/11/16/permissible-perform-funeral-prayer-janaza-within-mosque/
 

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