Sarkozy- new president of France !!

[Hashim_507]

I can't speak for him, but here is how I view multiculturalism. Diversity is a good thing, I'm not arguing against that. However, we run into huge problems when a large part of the country's population does not view themselves as belonging in society. When people move to a new country, such as France, they can keep many of their native customs and their religious beliefs. But they do have a responsibility to accept and adopt the core principles of their new nation. To use my country as an example, I don't care who you are or where you come from, there is a place for you in the USA as long as you respect the Constitution and our democratic traditions.

Yes all immigrants must respect the constitution and its tredition. But the host country must respect the immigrants rights that includes there human rights.

 

[Goku]

You maybe don't notice that Left's attitudes are completely against islamic teachings-

Left promotes:
- homosexual marriages and adoption "laws" for gays and lesbians
-radical feminism
-euthanasia
-abortion
-radical separation of state and religion
-secularism and atheism.

I sometimes really wonder why most muslims In Europe vote for Left :?

Thats true but on average the left is more tolerant of others than the right, not all of the right wing is intolerant of course, but some of the far right are very racist and anti Muslim. E.g in UK one of the most racist and anti Muslim party is a far right wing party called BNP, but the majority of Brits oppose them. In contrast, some of the biggest supporters of Islam and Muslims are on the left and far left, e.g Ken Livingston (Leftist Mayor of London), George Galloway (far left leader of the Respect party in UK).

That might be a few reasons why Muslims tend to vote for the left, if they do, i didnt even know there was a statistic showing this.

 

[Philosopher]

This guy is good news for Muslims as well. He wants to use France's money to fund mosques.

 

[Goku]

This guy is good news for Muslims as well. He wants to use France's money to fund mosques.

Really? I thought there was propoganda that he's anti-Islam, or something.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Who knows , maybe you are right. I know that Sarkozy wants to fund building new mosques in France from state money.

And are you aware of the intent behind that move? He wishes to do it with state money so that the state has control over them.

 

[north_malaysian]

Really? I thought there was propoganda that he's anti-Islam, or something.

I think he's pro-religious..... which should be good news for Muslims then. But we should just wait and see..

 

[north_malaysian]

[PIE]L'Expresse has recently launch a fierce attack on Nicolas Sarkozy for his objecting to the introduction of legislation banning hijab in schools. Sarkozy, the magazine holds, does not stop saying in public that hijab is a right of option that should be respected. The magazine adds that he also worked hard this year to promote the French Council for the Islamic Faith, the majority of whose seats were seized by fundementalists in its 2003 elections.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...18&pagename=Zone-English-ArtCulture/ACELayout

[/PIE]

 

[north_malaysian]

Reactions of Sarkozy winning the election:

* "We hope that the French President will have the vision for a more influential role through being more balanced in his policies".. - Nawaf Moussawi, Head of International Relations, Hezbollah

* "President Bashar Assad of Syria in a telegram expressed hopes that relations between Syria and France, which had been marred for the past two years, "would develop for the two countries' interests,"..

* Saad Hariri sent a message of congratulations to Sarkozy, expressing confidence that historic ties will continue to develop.

http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2007/05/rival_lebanon_l.php

 

[Goku]

Well thats good to hear, if all this is true, it shows that there are people even on the right wing who are as tolerant of Islam and Muslims as the left wing. Hopefully France will improve its relations with Muslim countries.

 

[Amadeus85]

Your not very open minded person, do have fear for diverse world?
Dont take my words as a insult.

No offense bro

You know, i am just quite conservative man, with patriotic attitude for my own country and also for Europe.
And actually in Europe we dont have multicultural society. We have rather duo-cultural society, westerners and muslims. It brings much tensions because nowadays this immigration turned into colonisation. Some european cities may soon have muslim majority of citizens. For example Marseille in France. Birmingham in England.Brussells in Belgium etc .
For me , as a conservative and patriotic european it is not a reason to hapinnes . I just want Europe to stay european.
I am sure that you would feel the same about your own country.

 

[Amadeus85]

And are you aware of the intent behind that move? He wishes to do it with state money so that the state has control over them.

Yes of course, Sarko doesn't want to let extremists there.

 

[Amadeus85]

Thats true but on average the left is more tolerant of others than the right, not all of the right wing is intolerant of course, but some of the far right are very racist and anti Muslim. E.g in UK one of the most racist and anti Muslim party is a far right wing party called BNP, but the majority of Brits oppose them. In contrast, some of the biggest supporters of Islam and Muslims are on the left and far left, e.g Ken Livingston (Leftist Mayor of London), George Galloway (far left leader of the Respect party in UK).

That might be a few reasons why Muslims tend to vote for the left, if they do, i didnt even know there was a statistic showing this.

You know Goku, for many true europeans Ken Livingstone and George Galloway are seen just as Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Salman Rushdie are seen by many muslims.
Lets say that word useful idiot would be the least offensive.

 

[Fishman]

You know Goku, for many true europeans Ken Livingstone and George Galloway are seen just as Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Salman Rushdie are seen by many muslims.
Lets say that word useful idiot would be the least offensive.

So, to be a true European you have to be right-wing? I heard that you can be European by simply being born in the continent. I'm European (British), and I am a proud left-wing Islamist. I was born here, along with my parents, grandparents, great grandparents and so on.

BTW, whilst communists and the harder socialists may promote things like state secularism and atheism, they are not a necessary part of the left. I promote racial equality, rights for workers and the poor, and multiculturalism. Multiculturalism has worked fine in my country ever since it was first invented, and it has only recently began to be challenged, mostly by the anti-niqaab crew.

 

[Fishman]

And actually in Europe we dont have multicultural society. We have rather duo-cultural society, westerners and muslims. It brings much tensions because nowadays this immigration turned into colonisation. Some european cities may soon have muslim majority of citizens. For example Marseille in France. Birmingham in England.Brussells in Belgium etc .

:rollseyes
Birmingham is not nearly Muslim-majority. It does not even have a non-white majority. And you cannot compare immigration to colonialism, unless, God forbid, you think of different races as being nations that can conquer eachother. Colonialism is when one country decides to take over another for economic reasons, typically to produce raw materials at low prices. Immigration is when people move into another country, for reasons such as escaping persecution, poverty, a bad climate etc. At the moment, because there are many bad conditions in the third world, immigrants come here because they are fed up with these bad conditions, and want a good life in the west. They don't want to force everybody into their culture, they just want to have a good life.

 

[north_malaysian]

Islamisation among the Europeans is not a new thing, for hundreds of years there are Muslim Europeans especially in the Balkan, Russia and Mediterranean area.

 

[Muezzin]

No offense bro

You know, i am just quite conservative man, with patriotic attitude for my own country and also for Europe.
And actually in Europe we dont have multicultural society. We have rather duo-cultural society, westerners and muslims. It brings much tensions because nowadays this immigration turned into colonisation. Some european cities may soon have muslim majority of citizens. For example Marseille in France. Birmingham in England.Brussells in Belgium etc .
For me , as a conservative and patriotic european it is not a reason to hapinnes . I just want Europe to stay european.
I am sure that you would feel the same about your own country.

News flash! I'm a Muslim European because, hey, I was born here. I also speak the language (well, English, but I'm British and we're arrogant like that), but because I disagree with you, I must be a threat. It's not enough that I live in peace, want to help people and am generally not a bother to anyone (except to annoying people who think peaceful coexistence is an imposssiblity, thus initiating a self-fulfiling prophecy and rendering it impossible)

If that's not good enough, I guess you'll have to drag my 'impure' butt to the gas chambers, and how very European that would be. Not.

Anyway. If this Sarkozy is not 'right wing' in the stereotypical sense of a narrow-minded bigot (but that describes every politician really), maybe some of these tensions will ease. Personally, I think we could just be nice to each other, but hey, what do I know? Let's just get rid of Muslims. They're not true Europeans. Their culture is different. And Jews. Europe is Christian. And black people too. Europeans are white, and black people, Asians and all them other mudpeople have their own continents. And fat people while you're at it. Europeans are beautiful. Hell, let's just genetically engineer a race of perfect Europeans. Maybe something amazing will happen, like the UK winning Eurovision.

 

[Amadeus85]

News flash! I'm a Muslim European because, hey, I was born here. I also speak the language (well, English, but I'm British and we're arrogant like that), but because I disagree with you, I must be a threat. It's not enough that I live in peace, want to help people and am generally not a bother to anyone (except to annoying people who think peaceful coexistence is an imposssiblity, thus initiating a self-fulfiling prophecy and rendering it impossible)

If that's not good enough, I guess you'll have to drag my 'impure' butt to the gas chambers, and how very European that would be. Not.

Anyway. If this Sarkozy is not 'right wing' in the stereotypical sense of a narrow-minded bigot (but that describes every politician really), maybe some of these tensions will ease. Personally, I think we could just be nice to each other, but hey, what do I know? Let's just get rid of Muslims. They're not true Europeans. Their culture is different. And Jews. Europe is Christian. And black people too. Europeans are white, and black people, Asians and all them other mudpeople have their own continents. And fat people while you're at it. Europeans are beautiful. Hell, let's just genetically engineer a race of perfect Europeans. Maybe something amazing will happen, like the UK winning Eurovision.

Now you are making a racist and a fascist from me, which i am definitely not. You tell me about gas chambers and fascists, but you probably dont know that German nazis killed 5 millions of citizens of my country.
And my own family also suffered from them. So i am as far from racism and fascism as one can be. But it is ok, you just could havent known about this.

I have never said anything about getting rid of immigrants, also members of my own family are immigrants in USA and England. I have never said anything about deporting asians, blacks, nor jews. And i have never said that in Europe can live only native europeans.

I will try to express my thoughts more clearly, so you won't conect me with gas chambers and fascism anymore.
Genarally immigration is ok. Europe in the second half of 20th century needed many workers from asian and african countries. So european countries embraced thousands and millions of immigrants (mainly muslims).
But now i have to say that Europe is full. For example in France immigrants make up about 10 % of citizens.It is very large number.When immigrants make up more than 10 % of people, they just dont integrate.They rather create own closed communities.
I don't know from what country your family came to Europe, but lets say that from Egypt.So now imagine that 15 millions of africans from Kenya,Congo,Cameroon, and Ethiopia came to your country. Majority of them dont know arabic language.They are from totally different culture.Majority of them are christians.They dont want to integrate with egyptian , arabic society, but they create their own communities, suburbs, where arabic people dont feel safe, where violence and crime is rather higher than in the rest of country. Those immigrants want to bring their families to their new homeland. They often dont work , but just wait for social help from the state.
And imagine also riots in your country , similar to those that hapenned in France in suburbs. Imagine that those immigrants are stronger with every year group of voters and using political correctness they want to bring their own cultural basics and traditions in the districts where they live in majority. Imagine that symbols of your religion are removed not to make angry the immigrants.
Imagine that many of them hates your state and they influence to change international politicy of your country to this that they prefer.
Then imagine suicide attacks like those in Madrit and London. Imagine that one of them trying to shout the freedom of speech killed a famous director in your country.
And imagine that everyone who dares to say that this immigration should be decreased, is called a rascist and fascist.
For you its just doesnt matter if major language in France would become arabic, and in Germany a turkish language.For you it doesnt matter which religion is taught in european schools and what symbols can be seen in public places.
But for me it does matter. I remember that power and strength of this continent was build by europeans and based on our values and traditions.
It is not popular to say this but i think that western, judeo- christian civilization is superior to any other that appeared on Earth. We actually invented the modern world and everything that you are using now is invented by westerners. Computer, phone cell, plane, car, mp3 player,modern medicine and cures, electricity and tv etc etc.
Thats why i feel that i have to stand up for this cvilization and this tradition. I am european and i want my civilization to survive. And this out of control immigration
and political correctness along with falsely understood human rights are threats for existence of my civilization. It is just clear demography- without native europeans in Europe you won't have european tradition and culture. Instead of this, we would have immigrants culture and civilization.


Regards.

 

[aamirsaab]

It is just clear demography- without native europeans in Europe you won't have european tradition and culture.

Culture changes throughout time - it is not the fault of immigrants. Tradition has similar treatment. In anycase, you're making it sound like the native europeans are being pushed out of their country which is so not true.

Instead of this, we would have immigrants culture and civilization.

Like the US.


Personally, as long as Sarkozy does his job, I've no beef/quarrel with him.

 

[Muezzin]

Now you are making a racist and a fascist from me, which i am definitely not. You tell me about gas chambers and fascists, but you probably dont know that German nazis killed 5 millions of citizens of my country.
And my own family also suffered from them. So i am as far from racism and fascism as one can be. But it is ok, you just could havent known about this.

I'm very sorry to hear that.

I have never said anything about getting rid of immigrants, also members of my own family are immigrants in USA and England. I have never said anything about deporting asians, blacks, nor jews. And i have never said that in Europe can live only native europeans.

Okay.

I will try to express my thoughts more clearly, so you won't conect me with gas chambers and fascism anymore.
Genarally immigration is ok. Europe in the second half of 20th century needed many workers from asian and african countries. So european countries embraced thousands and millions of immigrants (mainly muslims).
But now i have to say that Europe is full. For example in France immigrants make up about 10 % of citizens.It is very large number.When immigrants make up more than 10 % of people, they just dont integrate.They rather create own closed communities.

This is quite normal human behaviour. Birds of a feather flock together as they say. Different communities can and do coexist peacefully though.

I don't know from what country your family came to Europe, but lets say that from Egypt.So now imagine that 15 millions of africans from Kenya,Congo,Cameroon, and Ethiopia came to your country. Majority of them dont know arabic language.They are from totally different culture.Majority of them are christians.They dont want to integrate with egyptian , arabic society, but they create their own communities, suburbs, where arabic people dont feel safe, where violence and crime is rather higher than in the rest of country. Those immigrants want to bring their families to their new homeland. They often dont work , but just wait for social help from the state.

Yeah, those particular ones are sponges, but not every immigrant or every Christian.

And imagine also riots in your country , similar to those that hapenned in France in suburbs. Imagine that those immigrants are stronger with every year group of voters and using political correctness they want to bring their own cultural basics and traditions in the districts where they live in majority.

Why not? That would be democratic would it not? People of different constituency should be able to vote and obtain what they want and need for their community through legitimate political channels.

Imagine that symbols of your religion are removed not to make angry the immigrants.

Religious symbols in France were not banned so as to avoid offending immigrants.

Imagine that many of them hates your state and they influence to change international politicy of your country to this that they prefer.

If they hate the state rather than the way it is being run, they should move. If they dislike the way it is being run, then trying to influence international policy to what they prefer through legitimate political channels is their democratic right.

Then imagine suicide attacks like those in Madrit and London.

Again, that's just a minority among a minority.

Imagine that one of them trying to shout the freedom of speech killed a famous director in your country.

I'm not quite sure which event you're referring to here. If it's Theo Van Gogh, then his murderer deserved to be punished. On the other hand, Mr Van Gogh perhaps was unwise in making such provactive films in today's political climate. Not justifying it, like I said, his murderer deserved to be punished for taking another's life.

And imagine that everyone who dares to say that this immigration should be decreased, is called a rascist and fascist.

Well, that depends on if you're distinguishing between the troublemaking immigrants and the law-abiding ones. You don't seem to be making any distinction, rather you seem to be lumping them all together.

I mean, heck, we get new members on this forum all the time, and some of them are just here to cause trouble, but we don't stop every potential new member from signing up because of that.

For you its just doesnt matter if major language in France would become arabic, and in Germany a turkish language.

No problems, as long as French and German don’t disappear in the process.

For you it doesnt matter which religion is taught in european schools and what symbols can be seen in public places.

Kids should learn about all religions, and all religious symbols should be allowed in public places. Hiding matters about religion from children is counterproductive.

But for me it does matter. I remember that power and strength of this continent was build by europeans and based on our values and traditions.

And nobody is destroying your values and traditions. Sure, they might disagree, but in a democracy, they’re allowed to.

It is not popular to say this but i think that western, judeo- christian civilization is superior to any other that appeared on Earth.

Well, you’re biased, but that’s your prerogative. I must say that such superiority complexes are dangerous. Being proud of who you are and where you're from? Great. Thinking you're better than others because of it? Um, that tends to cause violence. You're putting yourself on a superior pedestal and painting everyone who does not conform to your ideal as savages. That is actually a form of racism if you think about it.

We actually invented the modern world and everything that you are using now is invented by westerners. Computer, phone cell, plane, car, mp3 player,modern medicine and cures, electricity and tv etc etc.

You're kind of missing out the contributions that, say, the Japanese (who are in the East and have very different traditions to the West) have made to electronics, robotics etc. Downside of superiority complexes.

Thats why i feel that i have to stand up for this cvilization and this tradition. I am european and i want my civilization to survive. And this out of control immigration
and political correctness along with falsely understood human rights are threats for existence of my civilization. It is just clear demography- without native europeans in Europe you won't have european tradition and culture. Instead of this, we would have immigrants culture and civilization.


Regards.

You’re assuming that immigrants destroy their host culture. I am not advocating such behaviour, and I honestly think no such destruction of native culture is taking place. I’m just advocating acceptance of other cultures, and peaceful coexistence. You don’t have to stop practicing your culture just because someone else disagrees. Once you start assuming you do, you get problems.

 

[Keltoi]

What is going on in France isn't completely the fault of unemployed immigrants, although they are the ones burning cars every night. The real problem is the failing economic and social system in France. If Sarkozy can do something about the stagnant economy and make some real reforms to social programs, this will do wonders to improve the nation and the immigrant issue.