Saudi school lessons in UK concern government

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I have no idea what the point is you are trying to make, Lily.
 
i think this sums up her point pretty daym well.
surely doing it for the benefit of the people and not at all because s/he is a perverted hypocrite.
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if you still need an elaboration, please go right ahead. the honor is only ours.
 
Why do people even debate about the hand-cutting, there's a very good moral story to it you know. You never steal, simple.
 
I finally saw the full documentary on iplayer. It didn't really tell me much more than the clips on the news had. They didn't elaborate on the context in which the Jewish statements were given or even the book/chapter name; only the statements themselves.

The thing about fire and Islam being the right way is a normal thing in all religions. Did they expect "nobody will enter the fire and there will be no punishment"?

The homosexuality statements were not explained. I've never heard of a Saudi homosexual being burned or thrown off a cliff. In fact I thought the death sentence only applied if the person was married? They should have given the whole chapter in context. I found it really annoying that 5 or 6 words in the middle of a sentence were being read out and then we were expected to be shocked.

The explanation about hand and foot cutting seemed ok too since they said at the start of the program these were Saudi curriculum books. Since this is in the Saudi legal system what the hell did they expect? Next they'll import Christianity books from the Vatican and act all horrified when they have references to the pope.

This was honestly one of the worst documentaries I've seen. Either tighten the education system or quit complaining (although it probably doesn't help that we call them our best allies but disagree with their fundamental laws).
 
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ProfessorSunday said:
So?
So? I knew this since I was six.
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What is truly odd about it is that Christians also say those who do not follow their religion deservedly burn in hell forever. It is an offensive concept, but it is by no means exclusive to muslims. It is in the biggest religious sector they have in the country.... so why is it only a problem for this guy when said by muslims? This is a good example of hypocracy and unfairly singling out Islam.

If he wants to make this point then address it evenly to ALL people who believe those who don't think like them deserve to suffer.
 
:sl:I don’t see anything wrong with the cutting hands. I just think the diagram targeting 15 years olds as pointless unless the book is teaching them to do it themselves (i doubt it). Words would have been sufficient enough, as they are 15 years old after all. Surely they know what hands and feet are? The diagram is pointless. And like I said they way some of the texts were worded only made it easier for the likes of BBC to criticise.

I think admins should close this thread. :wa:
 
there was a time when 11 year olds were plotting to take the throne of Russia from their ailing siblings.. armies have been led by 13 year olds, 11 year old in middle schools are given birth control pills.. and well my five year old niece's 'peter Rabbit' book the father bunny didn't come home one day because he was turned into stew.. Are we picking and choosing what is appropriate and what isn't purely on whimsy or to cater to some hypocrite agenda which seems to bury its head in the sand to its own unspeakable actions?
 
:sl:

I didn’t say it was inappropriate. I said it was pointless having a diagram specifically stating where hands or feet should be cut unless these fifteen years old are being taught to be the ones to cut hands and feet off when they suspect or caught someone stealing. Can you please tell me the point of having a diagram on where to specifically cut hands or feet? Bear in mind this book was targeting15 years olds who know what a hand and foot is!
I think having a picture of someone with no hands and feet should have more beneficial and deterrent!
:wa:
 
Ubah said:
:sl:

I didn’t say it was inappropriate. I said it was pointless having a diagram specifically stating where hands or feet should be cut unless these fifteen years old are being taught to be the ones to cut hands and feet off when they suspect or caught someone stealing. Can you please tell me the point of having a diagram on where to specifically cut hands or feet? Bear in mind this book was targeting15 years olds who know what a hand and foot is!
I think having a picture of someone with no hands and feet should have more beneficial and deterrent!
:wa:
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The same reason we are told how a heart works. We might not all operate on one but knowledge is very important.
 
Pygoscelis said:
What is truly odd about it is that Christians also say those who do not follow their religion deservedly burn in hell forever. It is an offensive concept, but it is by no means exclusive to muslims. It is in the biggest religious sector they have in the country.... so why is it only a problem for this guy when said by muslims? This is a good example of hypocracy and unfairly singling out Islam.

If he wants to make this point then address it evenly to ALL people who believe those who don't think like them deserve to suffer.
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Thats exactly what I'd have said if they'd interviewed me on that programme
 
Dagless said:
The same reason we are told how a heart works. We might not all operate on one but knowledge is very important.
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:sl:
A diagram of a heart might be shown to say how the heart work, because we don’t generally see our own heart. Let face it, we all know and see what a hand and a foot is and would known what the result of losing would be like especially if you are 15 years old!
I still don’t see the point of it. I still think it is pointless. Like I said, a picture of someone with no hand/s or feet would have been more useful. Also I would have added a narrative of what it is like to live with no hands or feet, if the aim was to deterrent young people, in this case in Saudi Arabia. Since the text was intended for those living in Saudi Arabia, maybe it is how they learn. So I couldn’t really criticise. In fact, I don’t even intend to criticise, I just find it odd.
:wa:
 
:sl:

I attended state school, where they "taught" us that child exploitation during the industrial revolution was "a nice way to get discipline", and that beheading traitors was a better version of the death penalty for them. And still they "teach" the same "stuff" to thirteen year olds. And yes, they do have colourful diagrams of people getting beheaded.

I'm not trying to "justify" the Saudi curriculum, but I am saying; its hypocrisy to critise others, while you do that very criticised action yourself.

:wa:
 
glo said:
Just for clarification (and not wishing to take this thread off topic), but 'hellfire' has very little to do with my understanding of Biblical teaching.
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well it is unfortunate that you cherry pick the teachings of your religion but I was really not expecting differently!
your feelings and understanding however have very little to do with the reality of things..

all the best
 
Pygoscelis said:
What is truly odd about it is that Christians also say those who do not follow their religion deservedly burn in hell forever. It is an offensive concept, but it is by no means exclusive to muslims. It is in the biggest religious sector they have in the country.... so why is it only a problem for this guy when said by muslims? This is a good example of hypocracy and unfairly singling out Islam.

If he wants to make this point then address it evenly to ALL people who believe those who don't think like them deserve to suffer.
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That's a good point.

The programme does mention some fundamentalist Christian schools and orthodox Jewish schools, but the investigation itself focused on Islamic schools particularly.

However, I feel the programme gave a fairly balanced view of Islamic schools and made it quite clear that it is only a small number of Islamic schools (as well as - and I assume - Christians and Jewish schools) which are cause for concern ...
 
Ubah said:
:sl:
A diagram of a heart might be shown to say how the heart work, because we don’t generally see our own heart. Let face it, we all know and see what a hand and a foot is and would known what the result of losing would be like especially if you are 15 years old!
I still don’t see the point of it. I still think it is pointless. Like I said, a picture of someone with no hand/s or feet would have been more useful. Also I would have added a narrative of what it is like to live with no hands or feet, if the aim was to deterrent young people, in this case in Saudi Arabia. Since the text was intended for those living in Saudi Arabia, maybe it is how they learn. So I couldn’t really criticise. In fact, I don’t even intend to criticise, I just find it odd.
:wa:
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My opinion differs. It is helpful and informative to say exactly what is to be cut. In fact students would probably ask if they weren't told. Saying hand is ok for younger students but curiosity asks where on the hand... the fingers? below the thumb? at the wrist? In fact I would hope there would even be some brief explanation as to why that place was chosen. 15 is gcse age and subjects are meant to go into some depth.
 
Dagless said:
My opinion differs. It is helpful and informative to say exactly what is to be cut. In fact students would probably ask if they weren't told. Saying hand is ok for younger students but curiosity asks where on the hand... the fingers? below the thumb? at the wrist? In fact I would hope there would even be some brief explanation as to why that place was chosen. 15 is gcse age and subjects are meant to go into some depth.
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:sl:

okay
:wa:
 
glo said:
Just for clarification (and not wishing to take this thread off topic), but 'hellfire' has very little to do with my understanding of Biblical teaching.
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This actually surprised me a lot.
which sect of christianity do yo belong, Glo?
because this is a first time of me hearing a christian who says hellfire has no significance.
 
How can you have a saviour without having something to be saved from? Does Jesus' sacrifice not depend on Hell existing?
 
Naidamar and Pygo, these questions probably belong into the Religions section.
 
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