Saudi woman driver's lashing 'overturned by king'

[User29123]

Salam

I think Saudi should only do this kind of punishment if a person breaks Islamic law not their own country made up law.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15102190

 

[ardianto]

If I am living in Saudi Arabia, I will forbid my wife to drive car, following Saudi's rule. If my wife drives car and Saudi police arrest her, they must lash me, not my wife. This is my fault. I am her husband, she is under my guardianship. And as a guardian I have responsibility on what she does.

Every Saudi woman is under guardianship of a male in her family, it's means someone has responsibility on what she does. So, if a Saudi woman drives a car, govt must lash her guardian, not this woman.

 

[GuestFellow]

^ Salaam,

Very interesting, though I do disagree. I do think people have responsibility for their children since they are young, inexperienced in life and are likely to make serious mistakes. So if a child does something wrong, the parent should be responsibility to some extent, though there are some exceptions.

As for a Saudi women, she understands that she is not allowed to drive. By driving, she broke the law, not her guardian (that's if she has one) and needs to face punishment. If the punishment is not carried out, these laws are rather pointless.

 

[ardianto]

^ Salaam,

Very interesting, though I do disagree. I do think people have responsibility for their children since they are young, inexperienced in life and are likely to make serious mistakes. So if a child does something wrong, the parent should be responsibility to some extent, though there are some exceptions.

As for a Saudi women, she understands that she is not allowed to drive. By driving, she broke the law, not her guardian (that's if she has one) and needs to face punishment. If the punishment is not carried out, these laws are rather pointless.

Salaam, brother.

Different than women in other places, women in Saudi Arabia are not allowed to sign any contract or agreement. It's because their status are always under guardian of a male mahram in their families. If we notice this rule from 'another side' we can see, it's means they are under responsibilities of their male mahram.

If Saudi Arabia doesn't have a guardianship law like this, I would propose another punishment, change lash punishment with fine, and govt can use that money to help poor people.

 

[GuestFellow]

Salaam, brother.

Salaam,

Different than women in other places, women in Saudi Arabia are not allowed to sign any contract or agreement.

These are civil issues. There should be a distinction between civil and criminal matters.

It's because their status are always under guardian of a male mahram in their families. If we notice this rule from 'another side' we can see, it's means they are under responsibilities of their male mahram.

There are limits to responsibilities. The male guardian will not be responsible for everything. I'm certain Saudi law does not allow male guardians to be responsible for the criminal acts of their wife/female relatives.

If Saudi Arabia doesn't have a guardianship law like this, I would propose another punishment, change lash punishment with fine, and govt can use that money to help poor people.

Fines are not as effective as lashings to deter people from committing a crime.

I may sound harsh but I do support the ruling given by the Judge. To drive without a driving licence is irresponsible and dangerous to other road users. Whether or not women should be allowed to drive is different issue.

 

[Muezzin]

I may sound harsh but I do support the ruling given by the Judge. To drive without a driving licence is irresponsible and dangerous to other road users. Whether or not women should be allowed to drive is different issue.

Is this the penalty for driving without a licence in Saudi Arabia? Whether the driver is male or female?

 

[GuestFellow]

Is this the enalty for driving without a licence in Saudi Arabia? Whether the driver is male or female?

I assume the Saudi women was going to be lashed because she was driving a car. However, my personal reason for supporting this sentence because the women does not have a driving licence. Therefore, she is putting other road users in danger.

 

[marwen]

Many articles and threads on the net here and there, about saudi women. The problem is you rarely find articles made by saudi women themselves or saudi activists.
The point is, not every change that comes from outside is really helpful. Seriously, who really cares about another country's citizens, unless there is some hidden agenda.

Personally, yes, I found some of the saudi made laws sort of bizarre or useless, but who knows how is the peoples' culture there.

 

[TrueStranger]

I can’t believe what I’m reading on this thread. Lashing for driving? A right, which every human being should have. We have bigger issues and bigger criminals to lash and punish. Like the Saudi leaders that support America financially and with oil. Or how about the Saudis that abuse foreign workers, and discriminate against certain groups? How about dealing with the corrupt policies of Saudi Arabia.

Women that lived during the Prophet’s (PBUH) and the Rightly guided Caliphs (may Allah be pleased with all of them) used whatever object or animal was available for transportation at that period in history.

It becomes clear that the Muslim Ummah is in such a horrible state when we are too busy punishing our fellow sisters for driving, while financing Western war(s) that continuously kill hundreds of innocent Muslim WOMEN each year.

Am I WRONG to state that the King of Saudi Arabia should be Lashed for keeping close ties with the Western world in a time when the blood of Muslims in the West and in the Muslim world is being shed.

We need to get our priorities straight.

May Allah have Mercy upon us.

 

[mrashidhai]

Every person has to follow the law of land in which he/she lives. It is not a matter whether there is a women or else on the driving seat with license or not.
Further do not mix up the issues. Whether the king of S.A. supports west is a different issue. Certainly it is deplorable but debatable as well.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

in Prophet Muhammeds(Saw) time, the women were riding on horses/donkeys/camels to. So it's not forbidden for her to drive, the KSA monarch is a pure dictatorship and betrayers of islam. They chose the side of israel and USA then of the ummah.

 

[GuestFellow]

I can’t believe what I’m reading on this thread. Lashing for driving? A right, which every human being should have.

Salaam,

I don't see driving as a right. People need to pass their exams first to avoid putting other road users in danger. I see driving as a privilege.

Like the Saudi leaders that support America financially and with oil.

There is nothing wrong with Saudi Arabia supporting America or any other country with oil as long as it is for business. However, I don't like how Saudi leaders invite US military bases and rarely protest against US/Israel imperial agenda.

Or how about the Saudis that abuse foreign workers, and discriminate against certain groups? How about dealing with the corrupt policies of Saudi Arabia.

No one is against that in this topic.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

It's wrong to support the kufar with oil(For their business, military) to drop bombs on muslims and shoot muslims. Where is the ummah today man, so you support them to give them oil to kufar USA and israel, who oppress people?

 

[GuestFellow]

It's wrong to support the kufar with oil(For their business, military) to drop bombs on muslims and shoot muslims.

I meant it is okay for Saudi Arabia to give oil to countries for domestic usage. Like using oil for cars...

I am against using oil to oppress innocent civilians.

so you support them to give them oil to kufar USA and israel, who oppress people?

No.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

Altough i still don't agree since the Saudi monarch is placed by them. Since the downfall of the ottoman empire with the help from the brits.

 

[TrueStranger]

Salaam,

I don't see driving as a right. People need to pass their exams first to avoid putting other road users in danger. I see driving as a privilege.



There is nothing wrong with Saudi Arabia supporting America or any other country with oil as long as it is for business. However, I don't like how Saudi leaders invite US military bases and rarely protest against US/Israel imperial agenda.



No one is against that in this topic.

A person should have the right to use the latest transportation, without being denied the opportunity to get access to that particular transportation. Our Muslims sisters were not even give the opportunity to get a drivers license, simply because they were women.

This particular issue is not about the woman putting fellow drivers in danger, but the fact that she dared to challenge a man-made Law that denied her the right to get a drive’s license or drive on her own.

You should read the historical relationship between Saudi Arabia and America. President Roosevelt and King ibn Saud both agreed that Saudi Arabia would give American the “privilege” to get access to Saudi oil, while America would guarantee the “protection” of the Saudi Kingdom. Their relationship hasn’t changed in decades, and it most certainly is not only a business deal, but one that is also militaristic in nature. America does provide weapons to Saudi Arabia, and those weapons were lately used against the People of Bahrain. Fellow Muslims. The Saudi family has no intentions of protesting or truly condemning America’s policies against Muslims around the world. Saudi Arabia has to do one simply thing to stop the Palestinian occupation, to stop the war on Iraq, to stop the war on Afghanistan, to stop the drone against Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. Just one simply thing. Threaten to stop the supply of oil to the Western World. But why would they, when they have made America their “Protector”.


Whether someone is against it or not is not the issue. It is a matter that should be addressed so we could get our priorities straight.

Salaam Aliakum.

 

[GuestFellow]

A person should have the right to use the latest transportation, without being denied the opportunity to get access to that particular transportation. Our Muslims sisters were not even give the opportunity to get a drivers license, simply because they were women.

Saudi women do have access to public transportation, though it is sometimes not reliable. I do believe women should be allowed to drive but change must occur at a steady pace and when the society is ready.

This particular issue is not about the woman putting fellow drivers in danger, but the fact that she dared to challenge a man-made Law that denied her the right to get a drive’s license or drive on her own.

Driving without a licence is putting other road users in danger. Everyone who wants to drive must take some lessons and pass some sort of test to see whether they are going to drive safely.

There are other ways to challenge the law. In this case, breaking the law is not acceptable IMO because there was a possibility other road users were at risk of harm.

You should read the historical relationship between Saudi Arabia and America.

I'm already familiar with it.

Whether someone is against it or not is not the issue. It is a matter that should be addressed so we could get our priorities straight.

Sorry I don't understand this...

Salaam Aliakum.

:wa:

 

[TrueStranger]

Saudi women do have access to public transportation, though it is sometimes not reliable. I do believe women should be allowed to drive but change must occur at a steady pace and when the society is ready.

I wasn't talking about "public transportation. That is completely irreverent at the moment. Of course women should be able to drive and more importantly i do not believe that a woman should be given a man made punishment for driving. Change will not appear unless the majority of women demand their rights.

Driving without a licence is putting other road users in danger. Everyone who wants to drive must take some lessons and pass some sort of test to see whether they are going to drive safely.

Again, the lady was never given the opportunity to get a driver's license or take driving lessons. And just because she was driving without a license doesn't necessarily mean that she is unable to drive in a safe manner. I personally do not know what her driving skills are, but I doubt the court cared enough to consider whether or not she was a good driver. She was not prosecuted for being a bad driver or driving without a license ( women are not give a driver's license to begin with), but simply because she dared to challenge a law which is ludicrous to say that least.

There are other ways to challenge the law. In this case, breaking the law is not acceptable IMO because there was a possibility other road users were at risk of harm.

It's a man made law, which has nothing to do with the safety of other drivers. It's a law that was solely established to discriminate against women.

Sorry I don't understand this..:wa:

Sorry, but I can't understand what you can and can not comprehend.

 

[GuestFellow]

I wasn't talking about "public transportation. That is completely irreverent at the moment. Of course women should be able to drive and more importantly i do not believe that a woman should be given a man made punishment for driving. Change will not appear unless the majority of women demand their rights.

It is relevant. Saudi women will need to rely on public transportation until the society is ready to allow women to drive. Saudi Arabia should uphold their law. If a women broke the law and lashing was the punishment, she should have received it. A person that breaks the law should be prepared to face the consequences. If they are not going to enforce this law, they need to change it.

Again, the lady was never given the opportunity to get a driver's license or take driving lessons.

She needs to wait then and rely on public transportation until the society is ready to accept women driving.

And just because she was driving without a license doesn't necessarily mean that she is unable to drive in a safe manner.

How do you know this women can drive safely? The only way you can determine whether a person can drive safely is to take a test.

I personally do not know what her driving skills are, but I doubt the court cared enough to consider whether or not she was a good driver. She was not prosecuted for being a bad driver or driving without a license ( women are not give a driver's license to begin with), but simply because she dared to challenge a law which is ludicrous to say that least.

I did not say that the court were considering whether this women meets the standard of a decent driver. I'm saying I personally support this punishment but for a completely different reason. I will not tolerate anyone driving on the road without a licence.

It's a man made law, which has nothing to do with the safety of other drivers. It's a law that was solely established to discriminate against women.

It has a lot to do with safety of other drivers. Women are not allowed to drive. Therefore, they cannot take driving lessons and a test. The purpose of the test is to ensure people can drive safely. If these women start driving without taking a test, they are putting other road users in danger.

Sorry, but I can't understand what you can and can not comprehend.

Well can you please elaborate?

Whether someone is against it or not is not the issue. It is a matter that should be addressed so we could get our priorities straight.

What is the issue you are concerned with? What priorities?

A bit more information would help.

 

[Crystal]

True Stranger well said. As the only female who posted to this thread I also believe you were the only one who answered best. A lot of the policies made in the world for women today are made by men, women need to take a more active role in what affects their lives whether it is in Saudi Arabia, Europe or America.