Seeking knowledge

[brjimc]

How can one seek knowledge, if people only wish to give knowledge on their terms?

How can one impart knowledge if they are not willing to deal with falsehood?

If knowledge means only hearing and not listening, then is it knowledge or mind control?

This is an issue we are discussin on my forum with regards to cults and cult activities.

Any ideas? I dont want to talk about cults per se here, but rather the idea of seeking knowledge from a general perspective.

In seeking knowledge dont we have to go to many different sources, some false in order to find the truth? Truth doesnt always present itself at the first stop. It is a process of discovery.

 

[brjimc]

lol. That fell dead. No takers?

 

[Re.TiReD]

How can one seek knowledge, if people only wish to give knowledge on their terms?

How can one impart knowledge if they are not willing to deal with falsehood?

If knowledge means only hearing and not listening, then is it knowledge or mind control?

This is an issue we are discussin on my forum with regards to cults and cult activities.

Any ideas? I dont want to talk about cults per se here, but rather the idea of seeking knowledge from a general perspective.

In seeking knowledge dont we have to go to many different sources, some false in order to find the truth? Truth doesnt always present itself at the first stop. It is a process of discovery.

AssalamuAlaykum

Which forum are you talking about if you dont mind me asking? You said 'Your' forum.

Akhee, if you're the admin then its down to you. In almost every issue within Islam, bar some; you will find a difference of opinion and most often than not, rebuttals. You need to figure out what stance you wish to take and then endorse that. If people think that is mind control then you can quote the bolded part of your post and tell them that you're helping them discover the truth lol kiddin, but if they dont agree they can go elsewhere....putting it simply.

And I'm not sure if this is the kind of response you wanted, I'm just trying to bump the thread for you.

WassalamuAlaykum

 

[brjimc]

AssalamuAlaykum

Which forum are you talking about if you dont mind me asking? You said 'Your' forum.

Akhee, if you're the admin then its down to you. In almost every issue within Islam, bar some; you will find a difference of opinion and most often than not, rebuttals. You need to figure out what stance you wish to take and then endorse that. If people think that is mind control then you can quote the bolded part of your post and tell them that you're helping them discover the truth lol kiddin, but if they dont agree they can go elsewhere....putting it simply.

And I'm not sure if this is the kind of response you wanted, I'm just trying to bump the thread for you.

WassalamuAlaykum

lol... Im not asking for advice for my forum. I know how to run a forum I just made mention of where my idea was coming from.. it was in relation to Christian based cults... a discussion we were having.

My forum link is in my profile. I dont want to step on toes here by posting it in the threads.

The real thing I am trying to get at is about the process of finding truth. For example, I thought I had truth when I was a Christian, then I abandoned Christianity (most of it) and found some truth in Judaism, of which I abandoned some of it and then I found my permanent home in Islam.

Of course, truth is absolute but our paths take us many places, doesnt it?

Even in Islam (not as a faith but according to the things people teach), there is so much to discover and so many falsehoods to sort through.

The thing about mind control (and I am familiar with such groups) is that it is difficult to spot until your bound in the web. Dont you think that, within the basic criteria of our Islamic faith of course, that we should keep open minds to taking on new and fresh ideas, think out of the box on problem solving, etc. rather than just parotting verses or academic learning from sources, etc?

 

[brjimc]

I actually dont know how this ended up in the advice column lol

Someone must have moved it

 

[Re.TiReD]

The thing about mind control (and I am familiar with such groups) is that it is difficult to spot until your bound in the web. Dont you think that, within the basic criteria of our Islamic faith of course, that we should keep open minds to taking on new and fresh ideas, think out of the box on problem solving, etc. rather than just parotting verses or academic learning from sources, etc?

AssalamuAlaykum

You know, I was watching something about Hizbut Tahrir last week. And the concept of mind control came to mind, sometimes we have to take a step back and look at ourselves from a different angle and maybe evaluate what we're doing.

But I think only a person with 100% firm faith and conviction would ever do that to themselves when it comes to the basics of Islam.

Allahu A'lam

WassalamuAlaykum

 

[brjimc]

AssalamuAlaykum

You know, I was watching something about Hizbut Tahrir last week. And the concept of mind control came to mind, sometimes we have to take a step back and look at ourselves from a different angle and maybe evaluate what we're doing.

But I think only a person with 100% firm faith and conviction would ever do that to themselves when it comes to the basics of Islam.

Allahu A'lam

WassalamuAlaykum

Asalaamu alaikum

You know the thing that impressed me the most about Islam just prior to my reversion 12 years ago is the openess of Muslims to impart knowledge to me.

Often when I challenged ideas and beliefs, like many of us reverts do, if they didnt have an answer, I was told plainly, "I dont know" and was promised they would find the answer somehow.

I was writing yesterday about this and now it comes to mind again. Education isnt just by imparting knowledge, it is also by people challenging our beliefs and causing us either to rethink our positions or finding the proof for our positions. It often is a "refresher's course" so-to-speak. It can either correct us in our paths or make us stronger in our path.

I think this is one thing I have learned over the years of listening to many many ideas and beliefs.

Alhamdulillah, every day goes by and I become more and more firm in Islam. The particulars can be a bit here and there but at the end of the day, there is no god except Allah and Muhammad is the Last Messenger. That, for me, is a pearl to be valued beyond all else.

 

[Re.TiReD]

Wa'alaykum salam

Masha'Allah, I wouldnt dissagree with you there

What you said reminds me of this:

​

Don?t Speak Without Knowledge

Say ?Allaahu A?lam?​

قال أبو بكر - رضي الله تعالى عنه -




أي سماء تظلني؟ وأي أرض تقلني؟ إذا قلت في كتاب الله ما لا أعلم؟!





Aboo Bakr - radiyallaahu ?anhu - said:


Which sky would shade me and which earth would carry me (i.e. let me live upon it) if I were to say about the Book of Allaah that which I do not know (about)?!

Narrated by Ibn Maajah in his Sunan in the book of Zakaat #1791; also mentioned by Ibn Qayyim ? rahimahullaah ? in ?I?laam al-Muwaqqi?een. The narration is Maqtoo? but strengthened by all its ways as mentioned here.



Shaikh Ibn Uthaymeen (rahimahullaah) mentions in one of his Khutab (plural of Khutbah) several examples that exhort one from speaking without knowledge. Some of what he has mentioned is as follows:



***



(2) Saying of Ibn Mas?ood ? radiyallaahu ?anhu -



‏يا أيها الناس من علم شيئا فليقل به ومن لم يعلم فليقل ‏الله أعلم فإن من العلم أن يقول لما لا يعلم الله أعلم

?O People! Whoever knows something then let him say it (speak of it), and whoever doesn?t know then let him say ?Allaahu ?A?lam? (Allaah knows best), for it is a sign of having knowledge to say about that which one doesn?t know ?Allaahu ?A?lam??

[Saheeh al-Bukhaaree #4435. English Translation Online #4481 in Book of Exegesis of the Qur?aan. Also found in Saheeh Muslim #5007; English Translation Online Book 39, Ch. 8, #6720 ? Sh. Ibn Uthaymeen?s site provides more references.]



***



(3) ash-Sha?bee ? rahimahullaah -



وسئل الشعبي عن مسألة فقال لا أحسنها فقال له أصحابه قد استحيينا لك فقال لكن الملائكة لم تستحي حين قالت: لا علم لنا إلا ما علمتنا


Ash-Sha?bee was asked about an issue, so he said ?I am not good/well versed at it? (i.e. I don?t know). His friends then said to him ?We felt embarrassed on your behalf? (i.e. being one who knows so much, how could you say that you do not know about the matter), so he said ?But the angels did not feel embarrassed when they said: we have no knowledge except what you have taught us.?

[Mentioned by Ibn al-Qayyim ? rahimahullaah ? in the book ?I?laam al-Muwaqqi?een? pg. 218; aayah with saying of angels is #32 of Soorat al-Baqarah]

Source: http://thikraa.wordpress.com/2007/05...out-knowledge/​

WassalamuAlaykum

 

[YusufNoor]

How can one seek knowledge, if people only wish to give knowledge on their terms?

How can one impart knowledge if they are not willing to deal with falsehood?

If knowledge means only hearing and not listening, then is it knowledge or mind control?

This is an issue we are discussin on my forum with regards to cults and cult activities.

Any ideas? I dont want to talk about cults per se here, but rather the idea of seeking knowledge from a general perspective.

In seeking knowledge dont we have to go to many different sources, some false in order to find the truth? Truth doesnt always present itself at the first stop. It is a process of discovery.

i would say that one has to seek for the best sources, realizing that there is some room for disagreement. but the best sources would be those that stick to the Qur'an and Sunnah as understood by the Sahabah.

seeking knowledge can be a joy, especially if you are a revert and some of the Jahillya and Assabyah is rather obvious to you!

i have found these sources to excellant:

http://www.bilalphilips.com/bilal_pages.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=288

especially the Foundations of Islamic Studies and Contemporary Issues sets.

this set is my wife's favorite and i really enjoy it as well:

http://www.kalamullah.com/al-fatihah.html

those brothers are kind of Salafs [whilst not being salafi], but my favorite inspirational Shaykh is [i'm guessing] Hanafi, but he resides in a Shafi'i area. he has a degree in all 4 Madhabs anyway. this site has alot of his lectures, especially his post -Taraweeh lectures [which are broadcast to something like 120 countries!]:

the Klerksdorp Tafseer lectures are based on Asbab Unazool:

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Tafseer2005.html

this ism the general download site:

http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html

and some standouts from the general lectures are:

Examinations of Sabr...Pass or Fail

Hopes in Your Aspirations for Jannah

Muslim Women! Are they Oppressed?

The Organ that will Make you or Brake you.

and from the 2nd set:

Abdud Dunyaa (Slave of the World) [this is one of THE VERY BEST lectures ive ever heard!]

Story Of Moosa (Alaihis Salaam)

and Interfaith Relationship (Voice of the Cape)

i really benefits from those Brothers, Alhumdulillah and you might too, In Sha'a Allah.