Serious Question from a Christian about Islam

[TruBeauty100]

From what I understand, the Islamic faith believes that Christianity is corrupted.. I'm just trying to get a better understanding about what exactly Muslims believe about this so I have a question.. I'm not here to attack anybody, I'm just looking for REAL answers...

There are over 38,000 different denominations of the Christian faith.. Is this one of the reasons why the Islamic faith says Christianity is false?

 

[Lynx]

Another reason is that the Bible is historically inaccurate. NT especially.

 

[جوري]

Textual Integrity Of The Bible
Is the Bible that we have in our hands today unchanged? Or has it undergone extensive revisions and alterations? Truth is the first victim in the Christian apologetical literature. This is because if they tell the truth about the Church history and its role in formulating the Bible (or Bibles) as well as the manuscript tradition of the New Testament, belief in the Bible as the "Word" of God would take the beating and the Churches would go absolutely empty. Hence it is not be surprising to find an average Christian's knowledge about his own scriptures is pretty close to zero.
This page is to educate the Muslims about the Bible of the Christians, concerning mainly with its compilation and textual reliability. It is often seen that Christian missionaries dupe less-knowledgeable Muslims about the Bible by saying that the Qur'an confirms the Bible and hence Muslims should believe in the Bible. Muslims should remember that the Qur'an attests Torah, Zabur and Injil as revelations from God given to the Prophet. It does not attest whatever writers of the Old Testament or St. Paul in the New Testament wrote or said.
But what is the textual reliability of the so-called Torah, Zabur and Injil present in the modern Bibles? The aim of this page is to venture into this issue. If one can't establish the 'revealed' books' textual reliability, is there any point calling it as the Word of God?
Lastly, we have made sure that we use the references of Judeo-Christian scholars of repute not the apologetical literature for very obvious reasons.
The Canon Of The Bible

A detailed discussion about the various canons of the Bible drawn at various times by different Churches can be seen here.
​

The New Testament Manuscripts

Click here for New Testament Manuscripts
​

Was The Bible Same As We have In Our Hands Today?

Church Tradition and The Textual Integrity Of The Bible

1. Church Tradition and The Bible
   1. Protestant Church
   2. Roman Catholic Church
   3. Anglican Church
   4. Greek Orthodox Church
   5. Coptic Church
   6. Ethiopic Church
   7. Syriac Church
2. Church Tradition and Apostolic Fathers
   1. Clement Of Rome
   2. Ignatius Of Antioch
   3. The Didache
   4. Papias Of Heirapolis
   5. Barnabas
   6. Polycarp Of Smyrna
   7. Hermas Of Rome
   8. The So-Called Second Epistle Of Clement
3. Church Tradition and The Early Lists Of The Books Of The New Testament
4. Church Tradition and 'Inspiration' Of New Testament Books
   1. The Didache
   2. Epistle Of Clement
   3. Epistle Of Barnabas
   4. Shepherd Of Hermas
5. Church Tradition and Manuscripts
6. Church Tradition and The Six 'Disputed' Books

Extracts From The Book How We Got Our Bible
​

The Bible and Its 'Inspiration'

Was Paul Inspired?

Church Tradition and 'Inspiration' Of New Testament Books

1. The Didache
2. Epistle Of Clement
3. Epistle Of Barnabas
4. Shepherd Of Hermas

'Accuracy' Of The New Testament
​

Textual Reliability Of The Bible - Who Is Afraid Of Textual Criticism?

Criteria Used In Choosing Among Conflicting Readings In New Testament Witnesses

1. Introduction
2. The Criteria
3. Outline Of Criteria
   1. External Evidence
   2. Internal Evidence
4. Some Examples

Textual Reliability / Accuracy Of The New Testament

Sir David Dalrymple (Lord Hailes), The Patristic Citations Of The Ante-Nicene Church Fathers And The Search For Eleven Missing Verses Of The New Testament
Based on a narrative whose source is alleged to have been the renowned Scottish Judge Sir David Dalrymple (Lord Hailes), it is frequently asserted that the entire New Testament can be reconstructed from the citations of the Church Fathers of the first three centuries, with the exception of only eleven verses. Going back to the original documents, something which none of the authors have attempted to study, it is shown that the data in them clearly disproves this claim – repeated in numerous missionary and apologetical publications for a period of more than 165 years.

• Introduction
• Historical And Theological Antecedents
• An Anecdote
  • A Brief Chronology
  • Oral Source And Printed Transmission
• Dalrymple's Invitation: Some Preliminary Observations
  • MSS. 25396-399 ‘Interleaved Collation’
  • MSS. 25400-408 ‘Supplemental Collation’
  • MSS. 25409-410 ‘Loose Leaf Collation’
  • Results
  • Some Remarks
  • Lost In Transmission?
• Conclusions

Modern Approaches To New Testament Textual Criticism

1. Radical Eclecticism (G. D. Kilpatrick, J. K. Elliott)
2. Reasoned Eclecticism (B. M. Metzger, K. Aland)
3. Reasoned Conservatism (H. A. Sturz)
4. Radical Conservatism (Z. Hodges, A. Farstad)

Critical Text Of The New Testament: Methodology and Implications

1. Introduction
2. Formation Of A Critical Text: Methodology and Implications
3. Conclusion
4. Appendix: Other Articles Of Interest

The Multivalence Of The Term "Original Text" In New Testament Textual Criticism, E. Jay Epp, Harvard Theological Review, 1999, Volume 92, No. 3. pp. 245-281.

1. Introduction
2. The Use of the Term "Original Text" Past and Present and Its Multivalence
3. The Relation of an Elusive, Multivalent "Original Text" to the Concept of "Canon"
4. Conclusion

Who Is Afraid Of Textual Criticism?

1. Variant Readings In The Qur'an and In The Bible
   1. The Qur'an, Its Variant Readings and Islamic Scholarship
   2. The New Testament, Its Problems and The Critical Texts
2. Textual Criticism and The Reaction Of The Church
   1. J Mill
   2. R Bentley
   3. J J Wettstein
   4. B F Westcott and J A Hort

 

[sur]

.....Islamic faith believes that Christianity is corrupted.. I'm just trying to get a better understanding about what exactly Muslims believe about this so I have a question.. I'm not here to attack anybody, I'm just looking for REAL answers...

There are over 38,000 different denominations of the Christian faith.. Is this one of the reasons why the Islamic faith says Christianity is false?

NO.... What u said is NOT the reason...


Corrupted are those who believe Jesus/Eesa(pbuh) as son of God.... despite the fact that bible use word "son of God" for many others too....

Then some say Eesa was "Begotten" son & others were metaphorical "sons"... but they forget that bible use word "Begotten" for two other prophets too...

So why on the earth, Eesa is considered "son" & others are NOT...!!!
========================
There was a time when followers of Eesa were unitarians, i.e, they took him as just a prophet... Then, for short duration, a group appeared called "Binitarians", they believed in two forms taken by god, (1)Father in heaven & (2)the son on earth..... Then the third & present-day-majority "Trinitarians" appeared....

this happened during time of Emporer Constantine.... (He favored Trinitarians in civil wars b/w Unitarians & Trinitarians) since their belief was more in line with pagan belief of god taking other forms...... Unitarians lost wars & books favoring unitarian doctrine were burnt... while those favoring trinitarian doctrine were published vastly....

 

[World Peace]

Salam aleacom

Welcome TruBeauty100

Muslims believe in Jesus (peace be upon him):
“ Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)." (The Holy Quran, 3: 84)

In his miraculous birth and in the miracles which he performed with God’s permission (Among his miracles was to be able to talk as a baby, and speaking in defence of his mother Mary, when she was faced with false accusations).
“Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah. He shall speak to the people when in childhood and in maturity. And shall be (of the company) of the righteous. She said: “O my Lord!, how shall have a son when no man has touched me? He said: “even so; Allah creates what He wills: When he has decreed a plan, He but says to it, ‘Be! And it is! And He will teach him the Book and the Wisdom and the Law and the Gospel, And (appoint him) a messenger to the children of Israel, (with this message):‘ I have come to you, with a sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breath into it, and becomes a bird by Allah’s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah’s leave; and I declare to you what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely therein is a sign for you if you did believe” (The Holy Quran, 3:48-50)
“Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, A Man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know” Acts 2:22.

God created Jesus (peace be upon him) as a sign
“He said: "So (it will be): your Lord says, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It is a matter (so) decreed. (The Holy Quran, 19:21)

However, Muslims believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) was not crucified but rather, God raised him up to heaven to himself, saving him from the intended crucifixion. Jesus (peace be upon him) characteristics were put over another man, and that man was crucified instead.
“That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah ; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not” ( The Holy Quran, 4:157)
“Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise” (The Holy Quran, 4:158)

““The view that God punished his innocent son to free mankind from sin is seen by Muslims to violate the rule set out in Deuteronomy (24:16). “The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor shall the children be put to death for the fathers, every man shall be put to death for his own sin”. The same is expressed in the Quran: “no soul shall bear another’s burden” (The Holy Quran, 6:164).”
Jesus (peace be upon him) the messiah, will return before the end of times.
“And (Jesus) shall be a sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.” (The Holy Quran, 43:61)

His return will be one of the major signs which will occur, other signs will include the emergence of the anti-christ or “dajjal” whom Jesus will confront and defeat, and after he will rule for a period of peace and prosperity.

Muslims believe that God has no sons, daughters or associates.
“Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.” (The Holy Quran,112:1-4)”

““Jesus (peace be upon him) called for the worship of the one and only God of the Ten Commandments: “I am the Lord, your God.... you shall have no other gods before me, or in Hosea 13:4: “I am the Lord your God from the land of Egypt: you know no god but Me, and besides Me there is no saviour”. In addition, in Matthew 5:17-19 “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them”.”
"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers: say not ‘Trinity’; desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs." (The Holy Quran, 4:171)”

“They say: “(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!” Indeed you have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin. That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.” (The Holy Quran, 19:88-93)”

"They do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them." (The Holy Quran, 5:74)”

“JOB 25:4. How then can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? JOB 25:5. Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. JOB 25:6. How much less man that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
JOB 14:4. Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one.”
“It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, “Be” and it is (The Holy Quran, 19:35).

“Verily, when He intends a thing, his Command is, “be”, and it is! (The Holy Quran, 36:82).
“The Gospel of John, 5:30"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and myjudgement is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."”

“Jesus (pbuh) repeated many times the first commandment (Law): “Hear O’ Israel, your Lord your God is one God” (Mark12 :29) and “You shall worship your God and none other”.
EXODUS 20: 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
EXODUS 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
ISAIAH 43-10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. ISAIAH 44-11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
JOHN 8-40: But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God.”

“Deut 4:39: “... that the Lord, He is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath; there is none else”

“Isaiah 44:6: “Thus saith the Lord.... I am the first, and I am the last; and beside Me there is no God”

““And behold, one came and said unto him, Good master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” Mathew 19:16-17.”

“Paul nails the law and the commandments to the cross (Colossians 2:14) and claims that salvation can only be obtained through the deathand resurrection of Jesus (pbuh) Christ: Refer to: 2 Timothy: 8: “Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my (Paul’s) gospel”: "If Christ be not risen from the dead, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain."(1 Corinthians 15:14) According to St. Paul, if Jesus(pbuh) did NOT die, and he was NOT resurrected from the dead, thenthere can be NO salvation in Christianity!”
“Vatican Church follows Paul’s teachings
Paul Changed Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday
(1) Paul was not chosen as one of the disciples of Jesus (pbuh). (2) Paul introduced the concept of ‘son of God’. (Refer Acts 9:20) whereas the foundation of belief of Jesus and Moses and all the Prophets is the belief in ONE GOD. Paul contradicts all the fundamental teachings of Jesus (pbuh).
Gal 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus (pbuh) Christ, even we have believed in Jesus (pbuh) Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.“1 Cor 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth. 1 Cor 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake – Note: The words spoken by Jesus (pbuh) regarding the observation ofthe LAW OF MOSES is destroyed by Paul in its entirety.

Jesus (pbuh) observed the Law as is recorded in many places of the Bible.Paul encourages people to steal others wealth in 1st Cor 10:24 when theCommandants prohibit such acts. John 14:15 “If ye love me, keep my commandments”
MATT 15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. MARK 7:7: Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matt 7:21”

“Jesus (pbuh) was asked- “Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?” MATT 22:37:Jesus (pbuh) said: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.””

“Trinitarian Christianity claims to base its doctrines on a combination of Jesus’ and Paul teachings. The problem is, these teachings are anything but complementary. In fact, they contradict on another”. Jesus taught Old Testament Law; Paul negated it. Paul preached mysteries of faith. Jesus spoke of accountability; Paul proposed justification by faith. Jesus described himself as an ethnic prophet; Paul defined him as a universal prophet. Jesus taught prayer to God, Paul set up Jesus as intercessor. Jesus taught divine unity, Pauline theologians constructed the trinity.” “For these reasons many scholars consider Paul the main corrupter of Jesus’ teachings” Laurence B. Brown, Where is the Christ in Christianity?

“Hence the faith in Christ as held by primitive churches and by Paul was something new in comparison with the preaching of Jesus; it was a new type of religion.” Dr. Johannes Weiss (1909) Paul and Jesus, London and New York: Harper and Brothers. P. 130

“We are a universe away for Jesus. If Jesus came “only to fulfil” the Law and the Prophets; if he thought that “ not an iota, not a dot” would “pass from the Law, “ that the cardinal commandment was “Hear, O Israel, the Lord Our God, the Lord is one, “ and that “no one was good but God”.... What would he have thought of Paul’s handiwork! Paul’s triumph meant the final obliteration of the historic Jesus; he comes to us embalmed in Christianity like a fly in amber. Joel Carmichael (1962) The Death of Jesus. New York: The Macmillan Company P. 270

“Which religion honours Jesus Christ as a prophet but a man? Which religion adheres to strict monotheism, Gods laws, and the concept of direct accountability to God? Which religion denies intermediaries between man and God?” Laurence B. Brown, Where is the Christ in Christianity?

“And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad (the praised one)." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" (The Holy Quran, 61:6)”


PROPHET MUHAMMED (PBUH) Prophesised in previous scriptures

““The Holy Quran, will abide forever, and will remain intact, without any changes or interpolations. It is a proven fact that the Holy Qur’aan remains as pure as it was revealed 1,400 years ago. The Holy Quran, 15:9: "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)."”

““The first revelation of the Holy Quran is in 96:1. It was revealed through the angel Gabriel to Muhammed (pbuh) was the word “Iqra” in Arabic, which means: “Read” or “Proclaim”. As he was unlearned (could not read nor write) he replied: “I cannot read.” This first revelation was prophesied in Isaiah 29:12:“And the book isdelivered to him that is not learned, saying, “Read this, I pray thee” and he saith, “I am not learned.” Exactly as stated in Isaiah 29:12! The order of the revelations is not in the order it is seen in the Holy Quran. In other words the first part revealed is not in the first page and the last part revealed is not in the last page. That these revelations came piecemeal bit by bit, here a little and there a little and inserted in certain order in the Holy Quran as ordained by Allah, is also mentioned in Isaiah 28:10-11: “For precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to his people.””

““Deuteronomy 18:18: “... and will put My words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.” This corresponds with the Holy Quran, 53:2-4: “Your companion (Muhammad) is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. It is only the inspiration that is inspired.””

Muhammad is mentioned by name in the Songs of Solomon 5:16. The Hebrew word used there is Mahammuddim. The end letters IM is a plural of respect, Majesty and grandeur. Minus "im" the name would be Mahamudd transtaled as "altogether lovely" in the Authorised version of the bible or "The praised One" - 'the one worthe of praise ie. Muhummed
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehrace Bayna Jerusalem." (5:16)

"His mouth is most sweet: ye, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughter of Jerusalem."

““Muslims all over the world use one language only, which is Arabic, in calling upon their God in their worship, prayers, during pilgrimage and in their greetings to each other. This unity of language had been prophesied inZephaniah 3:9 :“For then will I turn to the people a pure language that they may allcall upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.”The above prophecy about the ONENESS OF LANGUAGE is verynoteworthy! Only Islam has this uniqueness about using one language in calling upon Allah, the Rabb of the Alamien. The name ofGod is Allah, which is a pure word, which cannot be corrupted - every person, be it a German, Bosnian, Chinese, Indian, American, Turk or of any nation, who is a Muslim, calls upon Allah only in Arabic.””

““The shift of Prophethood to another nation was foretold in Jeremiah 31:36: “If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.” And also foretold by Jesus (pbuh) in Matt 21:43: “Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” And without doubt that nation is the Arabs, as it is stated in Isaiah - 21-13-“The Burden Upon Arabia”. This corresponds to the following verse of the Holy Quran in which Allah informs the prophet of avery heavy responsibility to discharge!“Soon shall We send down to you a weighty Message”. (The Holy Quran, 73:5)””

““The Holy Ka’bah was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael (pbut) in Makkah, and is mentioned in the Holy Qur’aan, 48:24. Another name for Makkah is Bakka, depending on the dialect of the tribe. The name “Bakka” is also mentioned in the Holy Quran in 3:96: “Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that in Bakka (Makkah), full of blessing and guidance for all people.” Marvelously, this word “Bakka” is preserved in the Bible and it was mentioned by Prophet David in his Psalm 84:6: “Who passing through the valley of Bakka made it a well, the rain also filleth the pools.” The water well mentioned here is the well-known well of “Zamzam,” which is still present close to the Kaaba in Makkah and still flows today with abundant water as it did for thousands of years. Ask any Muslim who goes to Makkah for pilgrimage.””

“ “The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come, they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the Lord.” “All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of My glory.” The tribes of Kedar in Arabia who weredivided became united. “The house of My glory” referred to hereis the House of Allah in Makkah, and not the Church of Christ orthe Vatican as thought by Christian commentators. Kedar is the second son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13) from whom ultimately Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) arose. Note: It mentions “HOUSE” in the singular. There is only one house that Muslims are duty-bound to visit at least once in a lifetime, and that is the house that Prophet Abraham built with his first born son Ismail in Makkah, i.e. “Kaaba”. On the other hand the Christians have no such injunction in theBible, that it is compulsory to visit the Vatican or any other Church.There was no Vatican and no churches in existence at the time ofJesus (pbuh). Jesus never prayed in a church as they did not exist in his time. The House of Allah, the Kaaba already existed during thetime of Prophets Musa (Moses), Dawud (David), Esa (Jesus) andMuhammed, as Prophet Abraham and his son, Ishmael (pbut) hadrebuilt it. It is a reality that Saudi Arabia is made up of the villagesof Kedar, and is the only country in the world, which remainsimpregnable to any influence of the Church.“Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not beshut day or night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.” This is very significant: The mosque surrounding the Holy Kaaba in Makkah has remained open day and night 24/7/365 dayssince it was cleansed of idols by Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) more than 1,400 years ago. There is no place of worship in the whole world that remains open 24/7/365 except the Grand Mosque in Makkah.”

“The vision of Isaiah of the two riders in Isaiah 21:7: “And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels”. Who was the rider upon an ass? One will know that is was Jesus (pbuh) (John 12:14) - “And Jesus,when he had found a young ass, sat thereon as it is written.” Who then is the promised rider on a camel? The Church is silent on this, for the reason that it can only be Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).Camels were the chief means of transport during the time of theProphet, and even today camels are associated with Arabia.
“Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice,the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of therock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.” From Mount Arafat near Makkah, the Pilgrims chant every year thefollowing: “Here I am (for Your service) O’ Allah. Here I am. Youhave no partner. Here I am. Verily Yours is the praise, theblessings and sovereignty. There is no God besides You.” Isaiah 42 can never be applied to an Israelite Prophet, as Kedar is thesecond son of Ishmael. (See Genesis 25:13)”

““Isaiah, chap 60:1- 22- It speaks about Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) “Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,and gross darkness the people, but the Lord shall arise upon theeand His glory shall be seen upon thee”. Compare with the Holy Quran 74:1-3: “O! Thou wrapped up in garments! Arise and warn! And your Lord magnify! The advent of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was at a time ofspiritual darkness when the world forgot the Oneness of God astaught by Prophets Abraham, Moses and Jesus (pbut) and all theprevious prophets.””

“Genesis 49:1: “And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, ‘Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.” This corresponds with the Holy Quran 2:133: “Were you witnesses when death came to Jacob? When he said to his sons, “What will you worship after me?” They said, “We shall worship thy God (Allah), the God of thy fathers, Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac; One God, and to Him we have surrendered (in Islam).”

References

Quotes from
http://www.ipci.co.za/Books/commonquestions_3rded02.pdf

Wasalam aleacom
......................................

Discover the truth about Islam
www.theradiantlight.blogspot.com

 

[Asiyah3]

From what I understand, the Islamic faith believes that Christianity is corrupted.. I'm just trying to get a better understanding about what exactly Muslims believe about this so I have a question.. I'm not here to attack anybody, I'm just looking for REAL answers...

There are over 38,000 different denominations of the Christian faith.. Is this one of the reasons why the Islamic faith says Christianity is false?

Christianity is based on one's faith and morality and not on God's commandmends or His will, may He be exalted and above.


“And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) the Book (this Qur’aan) in truth,
confirming the Scripture that came before it and Muhaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures)”[al-Maa'idah 5:48].


“It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur’aan) to you (Muhammad) with truth, confirming what came before it [Aal ‘Imraan 3:3]

 

[Insecured soul]

The religion brought by jesus peace be upon him was the same religion brought by muhammed peace be upon him and actually we think its muslim who follow the true teachings of jesus pbuh as he brought the same message that there is only one god to be worshipped

 

[Woodrow]

Peace and welcome to the foru,

May you love of Jesus(as) lead you to learning what he taught and what his message to the world was one of love and worship of the one God. Jesus(as) never taught the religion called Christianity. Nor was he the author of any part of the NT.

It is actually incorrect to say Christianity was corrupted as it was not the teaching of Jesus(as). An erroneous message called Christianity was taught, but that was the teachings of Paul and further developed through the pagan beliefs of the Greeks and Romans.

 

[Supreme]

Peace and welcome to the foru,

May you love of Jesus(as) lead you to learning what he taught and what his message to the world was one of love and worship of the one God. Jesus(as) never taught the religion called Christianity. Nor was he the author of any part of the NT.

It is actually incorrect to say Christianity was corrupted as it was not the teaching of Jesus(as). An erroneous message called Christianity was taught, but that was the teachings of Paul and further developed through the pagan beliefs of the Greeks and Romans.

I've often wondered about this. What particular pagan beliefs from Rome and Greece did Christianity develop?

 

[Woodrow]

I've often wondered about this. What particular pagan beliefs from Rome and Greece did Christianity develop?

Peace Supreme,

I can appreciate that this is an area you will have much disagreement over. I post these as I believe these are true. I recognize your right to disagree and post counter arguments.

I will just post those I personally have researched. The first was the adopting of the Pagan Easter feast. (Astarte from ancient Greece)

Then we have the names of the days of the Week from the names of pagan gods and in particular Sunday, as having been originally the Roman day of worship of the sun.

Just my opinion, by the time of the First Nicene counsel, the books accepted to include in the NT were those that did not violate the previous beliefs of the Romans and Greeks. What became Christianity was an edited/revised version of the Greek and Roman worship.

Some Ancient Greco/Roman beliefs:

Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection.


The concept of God(swt) having manlike attributes, especially in his appearance of being a father-like figure A portrayal of God(swt) very similar to the GrecoRoman Jupiter/Zeus

the rite of baptism, This was a very common requirement for acceptance into the ancient "Mystery" religions of ancient Greece. The Baptism was a full immersion identical to the baptism of some Christian Churches.

 

[Supreme]

Peace Woodrow;

I will just post those I personally have researched. The first was the adopting of the Pagan Easter feast. (Astarte from ancient Greece)

Fair enough, however Christianity adopted it albeit used it's own Christian message to fit the bill. Christians may have been using the same date, granted, however what they were celebrating was strictly and purely a Christian theme.

Just my opinion, by the time of the First Nicene counsel, the books accepted to include in the NT were those that did not violate the previous beliefs of the Romans and Greeks. What became Christianity was an edited/revised version of the Greek and Roman worship

I think the key part here, and I'm pleased you included it, was 'Just my opinion'. The NT books were selected on a variety of criteria, including structure, message, popularity, access to them already in the Christian world, and crucially, ones that matched the already established theology and teaching of the Church.

Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection

Is there any proof that Jesus and Attis are related?

The concept of God(swt) having manlike attributes, especially in his appearance of being a father-like figure A portrayal of God(swt) very similar to the GrecoRoman Jupiter/Zeus

Again, similarities hardly equate to correlation. Is there any evidence that the two are related, or is it just speculation?

the rite of baptism, This was a very common requirement for acceptance into the ancient "Mystery" religions of ancient Greece. The Baptism was a full immersion identical to the baptism of some Christian Churches.

See above.

It's true Christianity has borrowed from other religions in its existence. Every religion has borrowed from other religions. There is no escaping that. However, one cannot help but feel the claims made above are more speculation that cold hard fact.

 

[Woodrow]

Peace Woodrow;




Is there any proof that Jesus and Attis are related?



Again, similarities hardly equate to correlation. Is there any evidence that the two are related, or is it just speculation?



See above.

It's true Christianity has borrowed from other religions in its existence. Every religion has borrowed from other religions. There is no escaping that. However, one cannot help but feel the claims made above are more speculation that cold hard fact.

I do not think any of them have any relation to what Jesus(as) actually taught. I think they were ideas incorporated by the early framers of what became Christianity.

What Jesus(as) taught was the correct form/reaffirmation of Judaism there is no reason to believe that Jesus(as) did not view themselves as being pious Jews and did practice pure Judaism.

These other ideas came from GrecoRoman beliefs. While the Jews did practice a form of Baptism, it did not have the symbolism that it took on as an initiation into a faith. The modern form of baptism is more like the GrecoRoman rite:

The mystery followers were bound by an oath to keep the mysteries secret. The actual initiation was preceded by numerous rites of purification such as fasting, baptism, and confession. The Christian theologian Tertullian (ca. 155-220 CE) wrote, "In certain mysteries, e.g. Isis and Mithra, it is by baptism [Latin: per lavarum] that members are initiated ..." Clement of Alexandria (ca. 150-211 or 215 CE) wrote, "... in the current Mysteries among the Greeks ceremonial purifications hold the premier place."

The mystery religions practiced baptism before Christianity. The second century Christian apologist Justin Martyr did not want to admit that the Christians copied the pagans. He explained the pagan origin of baptism by claiming that the demons learned about baptism from Isaiah and taught it to the pagans: "... the demons prompted those [the pagans] who enter their temples ... to sprinkle themselves also with water; furthermore, they cause them to wash their whole persons."

SOURCE: http://www.egodeath.com/bensonmysteryrels.htm

You can find a little more in the writings of Justin Martyr:

Mimicry of Baptism

And the devils, indeed, having heard this washing [baptism] published by the prophet, instigated those who enter their temples, and are about to approach them with libations and burnt-offerings, also to sprinkle themselves.


Mimicry of Eucharist

Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

 

[Lynx]

Peace Supreme,

I can appreciate that this is an area you will have much disagreement over. I post these as I believe these are true. I recognize your right to disagree and post counter arguments.

I will just post those I personally have researched. The first was the adopting of the Pagan Easter feast. (Astarte from ancient Greece)

Then we have the names of the days of the Week from the names of pagan gods and in particular Sunday, as having been originally the Roman day of worship of the sun.

Just my opinion, by the time of the First Nicene counsel, the books accepted to include in the NT were those that did not violate the previous beliefs of the
Romans and Greeks. What became Christianity was an edited/revised version of the Greek and Roman worship.

Some Ancient Greco/Roman beliefs:


Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection.


The concept of God(swt) having manlike attributes, especially in his appearance of being a father-like figure A portrayal of God(swt) very similar to the GrecoRoman Jupiter/Zeus

the rite of baptism, This was a very common requirement for acceptance into the ancient "Mystery" religions of ancient Greece. The Baptism was a full immersion identical to the baptism of some Christian Churches.

Just curious but a lot of Jesus's miracles are referenced in earlier pagan works such as the story of Horus including some
of the ones you mentioned (namely the virgin birth). But the Quran refers to these miracles also. How do you know the Qurans depiction of Jesus isn't a rip off of paganism?

 

[Woodrow]

Just curious but a lot of Jesus's miracles are referenced in earlier pagan works such as the story of Horus including some
of the ones you mentioned (namely the virgin birth). But the Quran refers to these miracles also. How do you know the Qurans depiction of Jesus isn't a rip off of paganism?

I will agree that a Christian can turn around as use the same type argument against us.

But we do have some historical evidence that these miracles of Jesus(as) did occur. We also know that for Mary to have escaped stoning under Judaic Law for her pregnancy, the people had to be convinced there was something miraculous about it.

The Bible is not 100% wrong, although I believe it was not fully preserved and all that was preserved of the NT was that which did not contradict the Pagan beliefs, some of the books being at least partially or even fully true and others being fabrications, most notably Paul.

 

[Grace Seeker]

But we do have some historical evidence that these miracles of Jesus(as) did occur. We also know that for Mary to have escaped stoning under Judaic Law for her pregnancy, the people had to be convinced there was something miraculous about it.

Actaully, since Joseph as already engaged to Mary, for her to escape being judged at all (let alone receiving punishment), all that had to happen was for him to take her home as his wife without accusation, exactly what we are told in the NT that he did.

 

[Grace Seeker]

The Bible is not 100% wrong, although I believe it was not fully preserved and all that was preserved of the NT was that which did not contradict the Pagan beliefs, some of the books being at least partially or even fully true and others being fabrications, most notably Paul.

There are a great many pagan beliefs that the NT, especially the writings of Paul challenge. To list them all would take more than a post, more than a thread, it would take an entire book. I could refer a couple to you if any one is seriously interested.

 

[Supreme]

There are a great many pagan beliefs that the NT, especially the writings of Paul challenge. To list them all would take more than a post, more than a thread, it would take an entire book. I could refer a couple to you if any one is seriously interested.

Indeed. I don't think the Pagan Roman authorities were too pleased with Paul's challenges. I don't they saw Christian beliefs as very pagan in general, hence why Christians were persecuted almost to the point of extinction under Nero.

 

[A-Believer-25]

The message that Jesus (peace be upon him) taught was to worship One God. Some time after the time of Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) people started to corrupt his religion. People started worshiping Jesus (peace be upon him) instead of God, and the previous books that God revealed were either lost or distorted. The Bible has lots of contradictions. There are some passages in the Bible that shows that Jesus (peace be upon him) was teaching people to worship God only.

 

[Predator]

From what I understand, the Islamic faith believes that Christianity is corrupted..

The Bible Declares:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God." (2 Timothy 3:16)

"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless...." (2 Samuel 22:31)

"And the words of the LORD are flawless...." (Psalm 12:6)

"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless...." (Psalm 18:30)

"Every word of God is flawless...." (Proverbs 30:5)


But we can find several flaws in it such as the below

1- Scientific Absurdities:

Proverbs 6:6-8, ants have no commander, no ruler and no overseer! This is absurdly false, because ants live in colonies and ranks of rulership and authority. And they have a queen.

Compare this falsehood to the Holy Quran's Scientific Miracle about the ants ranks and 4 layers of communications which scientists today have recently confirmed: Ants do indeed talk to each others as the Holy Quran Stated!

Revelations 12:1-9, the dragon will enter heaven and wage war with the angels! It is a classic fairy tale from a magical world.

Leviticus 11:20-23, "All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you." No insect with four legs exists. Insects have six legs and six feet.
Leviticus 11:6 "The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you." Rabbits, are lagomorphs, not ruminants; they do not chew the cud.

The earth is flat, has four corners, is standing on pillars that prevent it from shaking, and is immovable. (1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6, Job 38:4, Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1, Job 38:13, Jeremiah 16:19, Daniel 4:11, Psalm 93:1-3, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, 1 Chronicles 16:30, Matthew 4:8) Earth is spherical



Daniel 4:10-11 declares the earth is flat, "10 These are the visions I saw while lying in my bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. 11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth."

Matthew 13:31-32 "He (Jesus) told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all your seeds,"
The mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds. Others, such as the orchid seed, are smaller.

Mark 16:18 "they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." Christians so bothered by the falsehood of this verse due to the many fatalities they suffered because of it, that the Bible theologians insist on denying these verses by saying: "The most reliable early manuscript and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20."

John 12:24 "I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." That is scientifically false. The dead seed does not produce new seeds.

James 5:3 gold and silver do rust.

Genesis 1:16, GOD Almighty created two lamps, the sun and the moon, each giving an independent light to earth. The Hebrew says "two lamps", meaning each giving off its independent light. Visit: http://biblelexicon.org/genesis/1-16.htm.

Leviticus 12:2-5, a female causes double the pollution when she's born than that of a boy. The mother remains unclean for 66 days after birth of a female instead of 33 days if she gives birth to a male.


Lying is propagated and promoted in both the Old and New Testaments.

1 Samuel 16:1-13, GOD Almighty commanded Samuel to LIE and say that he came to sacrifice for the LORD, when in reality he came to anoint David.

Romans 3:1-8, Paul admitted that he lied and that he resorted to lying for the sake of spreading GOD Almighty's Truth: "But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved."

Philippians 1:15-18, Paul said that the end justifies the means even through false motives and lies: "But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice."



2- Textual and Historical Contradictions:



2 Samuel 10:18 - David slew 700 and 40,000 horsemen and Shobach the commander.
1 Chronicles 19:18 - David slew 7000 chariots and 40,000 footmen.

2 Chronicles 9:25 - Solomon had 4000 stalls for horses and chariots.
1 Kings 4:26 - Solomon had 40,000 stalls for horses.

Ezra 2:5 - Arah had 775 sons.
Nehemiah 7:10 - Arah had 652 sons.

2 Samuel 24:13 - SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE.
1 Chronicles 21:11-12 - THREE YEARS OF FAMINE.

How did Judas die?
Matthew 27:5 - Hanged himself.
Acts 1:18 - And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out.

2 Samuel 6:23 - MICHAL never had a child until she died.
2 Samuel 21:8 - MICHAL had 5 sons.

2 Kings 24:8 - Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began to reign.
2 Chronicles 36:9 - Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign.

1 Kings 16:6-8 - 26th year of the reign of Asa, Baasha reigned over Israel.
2 Chronicles 16:1 - 36th year of the reign of Asa, Baasha reigned over Israel.

How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
22 in 2 Kings 8:26
42 in 2 Chronicle 22:2

Who was Josiah's successor?
Jehoahaz - 2 Chronicle 36:1
Shallum - Jeremiah 22:11



Again, the Bible Declares:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God." (2 Timothy 3:16)

"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless...." (2 Samuel 22:31)

"And the words of the LORD are flawless...." (Psalm 12:6)

"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless...." (Psalm 18:30)

"Every word of God is flawless...." (Proverbs 30:5)


These True Statements undoubtedly prove that the Bible is corrupt!
It is quite that the Bible is indeed corrupt and is undoubtedly filled with man's alterations, lies and corruption.