Sex with slaves in Islam

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are they all lying too?

I didn't say everyone was lying. I said it was the most lied about subject I have encountered, and that it is people on both sides of the argument who are lying.

But still, this doesn't explain why the Quran says men can have sex with their slaves.
 
I read about 50% in paper form but it was one of those really dodgy ones where the translator inserts their own comments in brackets, so I dumped that one. I then got a Kindle for xmas last year and bought a book for it named "Three translations of the Quran" - each verse is written out 3 times, one by each translator.

Abdullah Yusuf Ali:
Marmaduke Pickthal:
Mohammad Habib Shakir:

I read all three translations of every verse. Where all 3 differed I would look at websites such as corpus'quran'com or openislam'com.

So effectively I have read it 3.5 times.

I found that Islam is the most lied about subject I have ever encountered. "Kill the infidels" for example is often quoted, but they are quote miners who miss out the part which says you must try to have peace first and must not initiate hostilities etc. I also found that many Muslim proselytisers (Yusuf Estes, Zakir Naik) lie about Islam too, especially when trying to convince people of scientific miracles in the Quran.

Why you would think I haven't read it I am not sure. If you want to discuss it then please feel free to start a new thread and send me the link.

Reading 3 translations means very little - reading and actually trying to get rulings out of the Quran are 2 very different things.

Zakir Naik and Yusuf Estes dont lie they ACTUALLY believe what they preach.

Back to slavery as I said there is concensus of the issue of slavery in Islam - trying to over ride a muslim concensus means very little.
 
@TheRationalizer

Your getting your info from Answering-Islam?

Anyways, this might enlighten you if you wish for it to -

Now here’s a good to ask ourselves, Why does the Quran Allow Slavery? Here is the answer. In Islam if a master has sex with his slave, then when the slave girl is pregnant, she and her child is automatically freed after the masters death. But that’s not the only way a slave can get freedom, infact if a slave request his/her freedom, she or he can get it!

Noble Verse 24:33
"Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),"

As we can clearly see, Islam says that if a slave request freedom, he/she can get it, including some money, in order for the slave to get a good jump start in life.
Beside this, the Prophet (S) also ordered for slaves to not be forced into having sexual intercourse:

"Musaykah, a slave-girl of some Ansari, came and said: My master forces me to commit fornication. Thereupon the following verse was revealed: "But force not your maids to prostitution (when they desire chastity). (24:33)" (Translation of Sunan Abu Dawud, Divorce (Kitab Al-Talaq), Book 12, Number 2304)"

Also read how the Prophet (S) used to free slaves:

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America and Director of the Islamic Society of Orange County, Garden Grove, California. He states the following:

"The author claims that “the Bible condemns slavery” and “one who practices slavery contradicts right teachings.” In order to prove his point he even adds “the slave traders” in 1Timothy 1:10. There is no such word there in the Revised Standard Version.

Actually in the whole Bible this word does not exist. The author also makes false allegation against Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) by saying that he used to buy, sell, hire, and rent slaves.

Slavery existed throughout the Biblical period including the time of Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him). Most of the Biblical prophets had slaves, both males and females. Perhaps the author of this flyer did not read his own New Testament. Otherwise he would have found there the following advice to slaves: “Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed.” (1 Timothy 6:1) and “Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory…” (Titus 2:9)

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) did not own slaves. He had many slaves purchased and freed. The author quotes Muslim scholar Ibn Al-Qayyim who said about the Prophet, “His purchases of slaves were more then he sold.” This is correct because he used to purchase slaves in order to free them, not to sell them. However, the author of the pamphlet mistranslates Ibn Al-Qayyim when he says, “The Prophet used to rent out and hiring many slaves, but he hired more slaves then he rented out.” The author has mischievously added the words “many slaves” and “more slaves” in the text. Ibn Al-Qayyim is not talking here about the sale, purchase, renting, and hiring of slaves, but about general business practices of the Prophet before he received the Prophethood. Actually, he is saying that “the Prophet himself was hired before he became the Prophet to take care of some sheep and he was hired by Khadijah to do business for her.” (see Zad Al-Ma’ad, vol. 1, p. 154)

The Qur’an teaches that freeing the salves is a great virtue (See Surah 90:13). One of the expenditures of zakah (obligatory charity) is to spend the money for the freedom of the slaves (surah 9:60). It is forbidden in Islam to enslave a free person. If Muslims had consistently followed the Islamic teachings in this regard, slavery would have become extinct a long time ago. It is unfortunate that some Muslims did not follow these teachings of Islam and slavery continued in Muslim lands for centuries. We are ashamed that some Muslims practiced slavery against the teachings of Islam. However, it is also a historical fact that for centuries the worst type of slavery in its most extensive and horrible form was practiced by those who claimed themselves to be the followers of Christ. They enslaved millions of free men, women, and children and shipped them like animals from one continent to another. They made millions in profit by this most shameful trade of human beings.

I wish to remind the author of this flyer what Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.” (Matthew 7:3-5)"

(Source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...h-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503547546)

So let’s see the points made:
1) Slaves can NOT be forced into having sexual intercourse with
2) Slaves ARE automatically free after the masters death if they bare a child from the master
3) Slaves CAN ask to be freed, and become free , including they will get an amount of money to jump start in life.
So Islam destroyed the social illness called slavery, if you look at the proof open-mindedly.





More on the subject - http://www.answering-christianity.com/umar/slave_girls.htm
 
there is concensus of the issue of slavery in Islam - trying to over ride a muslim concensus means very little.

Not on slavery itself but specifically the subject of being permitted to have sex with your slaves, what is the consensus on that?
 
Not on slavery itself but specifically the subject of being permitted to have sex with your slaves, what is the consensus on that?

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Please read my other reply in this thread at the bottom, regarding the Slavery.
 
I am pretty sure releasing slaves in a gradual way would create the same effect. I am sure God could think of a mathematically sound way to do this without making it halal to cheat on one's wife. Those rulers and commanders had it good I bet lol
first define that what do you mean when you say "to cheat on one's wife." are you using the modern framework that a man cannot have sexual relations with anyone except his wife? How did this conception arise? Do humans in a relationship always explicitly state this assumption? why is it always assumed that now once we are in relationship, sexual relations outside are forbidden? even if yes then why so? There are many flaws with this mdoern conception and hence I do not agree with it. I am not saying that in Islam a man must then start committing zina with other women. All I am saying is that having a wife does not forbid him from having sexual relations with those other permitted women and in islam female slaves or what one's right hand possess are one of those. if the wife gets pissed off, so be it. Man has the freedom to exercise his god-given right.
 
:sl:

Also the Muslim woman has the right to divorce a man like that. Just wanted to add this before anyone comes back claiming Islam oppresses women.

:wa:
 
I'll do my best :-)

1: The domain name is "searchtruth" and it is a "dot com" domain.
2: then there is the following /tafsir/tafsir.php

Click on 23 Al Muminoon and then search for "slave".

There seems to be a discrepancy amongst translator footnotes. The link you gave suggests anyone who says other than he is incorrect (or selective), but the translation I have at home, by Yusuf Ali, says slave girls referred to those married.
 
All I am saying is that having a wife does not forbid him from having sexual relations with those other permitted women and in islam female slaves or what one's right hand possess are one of those. if the wife gets pissed off, so be it. Man has the freedom to exercise his god-given right.

And doesn't the wife have a right to voice her opinion about the matter? Why don't you put yourself in the shoes of a woman rather than the men who create all these laws. I presume you think the female slave should give her consent too?


"And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them:"

Doesn't (my writing's red now but I can't be bothered to change it lol) this suggest that the slaves had to buy their freedom, not just be automatically freed with money given to them. If that was that case then surely no one would stay a slave?

Muslims were also heavily involved in the slave trade in more recent times, profiting from selling people across continents. It wasn't just Christians. But I don't see how any God could approve of slavery at all and none of these people are truly Muslims or Christians at all, just concerned with greed and profit. Both groups were as bad as each other. Slavery is something that makes me angry, it makes you want to jump back in time and slap someone in the face. I'm writing an essay partly about it at the moment and the attitudes of some people, I just don't understand it. We musn't forget slavery's still going on though. :heated:
 
Just wanted to add this before anyone comes back claiming Islam oppresses women

That covers the wives certainly, but not the sex slaves. I'd say they are more oppressed than the male slaves wouldn't you?
 
Laura, this thread is about sex with slaves, not emancipation. If it's okay I'd prefer to stay on topic, cheers.
 
There seems to be a discrepancy amongst translator footnotes. The link you gave suggests anyone who says other than he is incorrect (or selective), but the translation I have at home, by Yusuf Ali, says slave girls referred to those married.

Try looking it up on other tafsir. The verse says to guard your private parts except from your wives AND slaves.
 
That covers the wives certainly, but not the sex slaves. I'd say they are more oppressed than the male slaves wouldn't you?

Hello!

1. Are you not at all reading this thread? Islam covers the salve too. She has freedom to consent marriage and she can ask to be free. Check Perseveranze reply to YOU. He made life easier for skim readers like you by actually summarizing his points at the end. Goodbye


So let’s see the points made:
1) Slaves can NOT be forced into having sexual intercourse with
2) Slaves ARE automatically free after the masters death if they bare a child from the master
3) Slaves CAN ask to be freed, and become free , including they will get an amount of money to jump start in life.
So Islam destroyed the social illness called slavery, if you look at the proof open-mindedly.
 
perseverance

I think the explanation for 24:33 is wrong. It is not forbidding the slave master sex with his slaves but forbidding him from prostituting them for the gain of worldly goods (read the rest of the verse.). As for the emancipation that is saying that if a slave appears worthy to be set free AND pays you their ransom then when you set them free give them some provisions from what you have.

It certainly doesn't say "don't have sex with slaves, release them free of charge + give them money if they don't like being a slave!"
 
I think the explanation for 24:33 is wrong.


you know that the explanation is wrong because you have your doctorate in Islamic tawhid, fiqh and tafsir? I had no idea we had a scholar on board masha'Allah.. I was asking for the mods to bring one of late.. Thank God for your presence here to point out those wrong explanations!
 
I looked it up, ibn kathir says it means exactly how I interpreted it. It says the master must free the slave IF they have the money to pay for their freedom, and it says you cannot sell sex with your slave girls to others.

Al Jalalayn says exactly the same too. Look them up for yourself.
 
I looked it up, ibn kathir says it means exactly how I interpreted it. It says the master must free the slave IF they have the money to pay for their freedom, and it says you cannot sell sex with your slave girls to others. Al Jalalayn says exactly the same too. Look them up for yourself.


It says that you can use clark's level for staging melanoma and also Breslow's depth is used.. which is accurate? both are written of extensively in esteemed journals and practiced by licensed physicians! I am pretty sure you can insta google and be an insta scholar even now that you know both methods exist? Will you then be able to go out telling people they've three months to live from 17 when you can't distinguish a benign
Lentigo from an ant? Perhaps one needs more than what is written to interpret, diagnose and manage disease, the same way one needs more than what is written to interpret, dispense with and manage jurisprudence? There would be no need for any sort of schooling if every idiot from the street were to pass laws or medical prescriptions or architectural measurements!

Something to ponder before you pat yourself on the back for being able to google!

all the best
 
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