Sharia law - do you really want it?

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Mehdi Hasan writes:

...contrary to popular Muslim opinion, there is not a shred of theological, historical or empirical evidence to support the existence of such an entity. Its supporters tend to mumble vaguely about this or that verse from the Quran, or make vacuous references to the life example of the Prophet Muhammad.​
I've always been of the view point that examples of sharia states were from the hadith and early versions of it. I.e. a sharia state today would be moulded against that of Prophet Muhammed [saw], Umar [ra] etc.

But the Quran prescribes no particular model of government, nor does it detail a specific political programme that Muslims must adopt. In fact, the concept of the state appears nowhere in the Quran.
[/INDENT]Is there any truth to this?
As far as government type goes, I don't think it matters if one is mentioned in the Quran (don't recall any mention of a particular type of goverment actually being mentioned in the Quran now that I think about it).

The overall concept of sharia is justice, security and peace in society, which I believe can be achieved through any political regime/government style.
 
:salamext:


It should be based on the Prophetic example in all senses. Read the seerah [Prophetic biography] to understand its details.
 
I think I might want to since all the corruption but sadly we (most of us) live in the west where full populated Muslim countries are hard to find so we cannot get the Shria law but we get wish for it.

But most muslims will also support the shria law because it can stop the world from making us do bad deeds and bring the inner good of all Muslims out because we would be devoted to Allah because of the shria law.I think Benazir Bhuttos birthplace has been under the shria law. And it runs smoothly. Or I at least think it dies. Anyway that's my perspective on Shria law and if we want it or not.

It is a very odd idea to suggest that law itself stops us doing bad things. It can guide us certainly, lead to punishment and we might wish that it would stops us but that is not how the world works and as the David says in Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me". So its not law that we need but grace in our lives and by this I do not mean that God's moral laws are bad because they show us the standards God expects.

So the argument that Sharia could stop us from doing bad deeds is simply flawed because the premise is never going to be true. For example, it was reported by the BBC that Tehran has 100,000 prostitutes so what you say is demonstrably not true, no country in the world is free from sin and injustice.

Sharia itself is arguably also flawed in my view for the following reasons:

1. It is inherently discriminatory and oppresive; it does not treat all people alike, its does not even treat all Muslim alike; for example, women are not treated with equality, non-Muslims are not treated with equality with Muslims. How can that be regarded as good?

2. It has I am told many outdated laws on land and property that could not possibly have any validity in a modern society.

3. It has a huge section on slavery and I find it impossible to belive that most or any Muslim would want that imposed on any society?

4. One final example, music is regaded as forbidden in Islam but according to Nawawi's manual; of Islam killing with a good reason is acceptable.
 
soo true
but i c that ure frm a counrty that already runs on shariah law, ryt?

I am from the UK and as far as I know we don't have Sharia we all have English and European law. Indeed no country in the world applies all of Sharia and would never want to do so either so some of the reasons I mentioned
 
I am from the UK and as far as I know we don't have Sharia we all have English and European law. Indeed no country in the world applies all of Sharia and would never want to do so either so some of the reasons I mentioned

Salaam

there are Partial sharia courts taking place in the UK - like divorce but i'm not sure how it works.

and your wrong many muslims around the world want sharia as long as we get a Khalifa system - so the generalisation isnt accurate although your right that no country has Sharia fully implemented at this moment in time.

and the reasons you give are based on your subjective world view - Mulsims are also have a world view and believe that its a mercy rather then oppressive -

1 - Furthermore the sharia is based on equity not equality as there realy isnt anyting like "equality" in the world IMO
2 - the Property laws arnt outdated depends which Fiqh (Jurispudence) we follow
3- who said anyone wants salvery - Islam on the contrary says its a good thing to free slaves
4 - Grey area with difference of opnion but majority regarded as bad - not realy a big issue.

sharia may not stop sin or bad deeds but can definitly reduce it - Iran???? who said its implemented Sharia fully? I thought no country has.


we could also regard any other way of governenace flawed but it all depends on how you view it and and if you believe in it.
peace.
 
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1. It is inherently discriminatory and oppresive; it does not treat all people alike, its does not even treat all Muslim alike; for example, women are not treated with equality, non-Muslims are not treated with equality with Muslims. How can that be regarded as good?
Men and women are not the same nor are they "equal" as some folks would have us believe. Whatever is on one side of an 'equals' sign must be exactly the same as what is on the other side without any difference in value, only in the way that it is expressed. How then could we say that a man, who is unable to conceive or give birth and then breast feed a baby is the equal to a woman who can?
They are equal in their beliefs and good deeds of course. But still they are not the same as each other. Each one must fulfill their role as humans.
Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

This word – equality – which many thinkers in both the east and the west advocate in various fields of life is a word which is based on deviation and a lack of understanding, especially when the speaker attributes this idea of equality to the Qur’aan and to Islam.

One of the things that people misunderstand is when they say that “Islam is the religion of equality”. What they should say is that Islam is the religion of justice.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“Here we should note that there are some people who speak of equality instead of justice, and this is a mistake. We should not say equality, because equality implies no differentiation between the two. Because of this unjust call for equality, they started to ask, what is the difference between male and female?’ So they made males and females the same, and then the communists said, ‘What difference is there between ruler and subject? No one has any authority over anyone else, not even fathers and sons; the father has no authority over his son,’ and so on.

But if we say justice, which means giving each one that to which he or she is entitled, this misunderstanding no longer applies, and the word used is correct. Hence it does not say in the Qur’aan that Allaah enjoins equality, rather it says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, Allaah enjoins Al‑‘Adl (i.e. justice)”

[al-Nahl 16:90]

“and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice”

[al-Nisa’ 4:58]

Those who say that Islam is the religion of equality are lying against Islam. Rather Islam is the religion of justice which means treating equally those who are equal and differentiating between those who are different.

No one who knows the religion of Islam would say that it is the religion of equality. Rather what shows you that this principle is false is the fact that most of what is mentioned in the Qur’aan denies equality, as in the following verses:

‘Say: Are those who know equal to those who know not?”

[al-Zumar 39:9]

‘Say: Is the blind equal to the one who sees? Or darkness equal to light?’

[al-Ra’d 13:16]

‘Not equal among you are those who spent and fought before the conquering (of Makkah, with those among you who did so later’

[al-Hadeed 57:10]

‘Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allaah with their wealth and their live’

[al-Nisa’ 4:95]

Not one single letter in the Qur’aan enjoins equality, rather it enjoins justice. You will also find that the word justice is acceptable to people, for I feel that if I am better than this man in terms of knowledge, or wealth, or piety, or in doing good, I would not like for him to be equal to me.

Every man knows that he find it unacceptable if we say that the male is equal to the female.”

Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Waasitah, 1/180-181
Based on this, Islam does not regard men and women as equal in matters where regarding them as equal would result in injustice to one of them, because equality that is inappropriate is a severe form of injustice.

The Qur’aan commands women to wear clothes that are different from those worn by men, because of the differences in the ways each sex is tempted by the other. The temptation posed by men is less than the temptation posed by women, so the clothes that women should wear are different than the clothes that men wear. It makes no sense to tell women to expose the parts of the body that men are allowed to expose, because of the differences in the temptation posed by a woman’s body and a man’s body – as we shall explain.
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/1105/equal
take a min to read it.

2. It has I am told many outdated laws on land and property that could not possibly have any validity in a modern society.
Like what :) cant help if i dont know what you are talking about pls show us
3. It has a huge section on slavery and I find it impossible to belive that most or any Muslim would want that imposed on any society?
Praise be to Allaah.

Discussing slavery and asking questions about it on the part of those who promote Christianity and try to divert people from following the religion of Islam is something that annoys the wise person and makes him point the finger of accusation towards the ulterior motives that lie behind these questions.

That is because slavery is well established in Judaism and Christianity, where it has taken unjust forms. They have many books which discuss that in detail and condone it. Therefore it makes you wonder: how can these churchmen call people to Christianity when Christianity condones and legitimizes slavery?

In other words: how can they stir up an issue when they themselves are up to their necks in it?!

The issue of slavery is completely different when discussed from the angles of Christianity and Islam, and when compared with the situation that prevailed at the advent of Islam.

Hence we must discuss this topic in some detail with reference to what is said in Judaism, Christianity and contemporary culture on this matter, then we will speak of slavery in Islam.

Many lies have been fabricated about Islam on this topic, at a time when criminals with lengthy track records are safe and nobody points a finger at them.
:) PLS read the rest here to understand Islam and slavery ...
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/94840/slavery
4. One final example, music is regaded as forbidden in Islam but according to Nawawi's manual; of Islam killing with a good reason is acceptable.
Praise be to Allaah.

Killing a non-Muslim when he is a mu’aahid (one of those who have a peace treaty with the Muslims) is a sin, one of the major sins. Al-Bukhaari narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas (may Allaah be pleased with them both) said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever kills a mu’aahid will not smell the fragrance of Paradise, even though its fragrance may detected from a distance of forty days.’” But with regard to non-Muslims who are at war with the Muslims and do not have a peace treaty with the Muslims or are not living under Muslim rule, then Muslims are commanded to kill them, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you” [al-Tawbah 9:123]
But this should be in the case of jihaad under the leadership of one of the leaders of the Muslims, or his deputy.
Shaykh ‘Abd al-Kareem al-Khudayr
Many people will say different things, But when looked at in context and with full knowledge, we can see that the Quran allows killing in self defence, but sets clear limits. God encourages muslims to fight to defend themselves from oppression, but warns them not to trangress limits that he has set
Prophet (may peace be upon him) Said "Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman. nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock. save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone"
If any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people - Quran 5:32
And in a hadith narrated by Abdullah bin Amr bin Al-As, God Told Mohammed :

You are neither hard-hearted nor of fierce character, nor one who shouts in the markets. You do not return evil for evil, but excuse and forgive. - Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 362
Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. - Quran 2:190
 
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Salaam. There are Partial sharia courts taking place in the UK - like divorce but i'm not sure how it works.

Comment by Hugo - true but no have legal binding and people who use them might find that it is to their detriment. In law they are no different than going to an advice centre and they cannot set punishments.

and your wrong many muslims around the world want sharia as long as we get a Khalifa system - so the generalisation isnt accurate although your right that no country has Sharia fully implemented at this moment in time.

Comment by Hugo - generalisation rarely are but to hope for this is hopeless and where it has been in place it was and based on slavery and oppression.

and the reasons you give are based on your subjective world view - Mulsims are also have a world view and believe that its a mercy rather then oppressive -

Comment by Hugo - all world view are subjective as they are based on who we are, what we have been taught to believe and so on. One cannot easily escape once culture. You may say its a view based on mercy but where can we see that in action is an Islamic country: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Darfur, where??

1 - Furthermore the sharia is based on equity not equality as there realy isnt anything like "equality" in the world IMO.

Comment by Hugo - Equity if it means anything means fairness, non-discrimination, justice, same standards for everyone etc. If you accept that this meaning is correct (and it is) then Sharia does not have any of these qualities. If you think it does then explain why a Jew would be treated differently to a Muslim?

2 - the Property laws arnt outdated depends which Fiqh (Jurispudence) we follow

Comment by Hugo - it has nothing to do with Figh its because the kind of land and entity no longer exists. But but here we see another weakness, there is not one Sharia but many.

3- who said anyone wants salvery - Islam on the contrary says its a good thing to free slaves.

Comment by Hugo - Sharia permits and regulates slavery and that is a fact so do you want to retain that part of Sharia or not?

4 - Grey area with difference of opinion but majority regarded as bad - not really a big issue.

Comment by Hugo - but other opinion say it is a big issue.

sharia may not stop sin or bad deeds but can definitly reduce it - Iran???? who said its implemented Sharia fully? I thought no country has.

Comment by Hugo - where is your evidence?

we could also regard any other way of governenace flawed but it all depends on how you view it and and if you believe in it.

At last we can agree, Government is flawed always because we are!. And flaws will NOT disappear because you believe in it. Someone said "Freedom of conscience requires Government" and maybe that is why Islamic ones never seem to work, they never allow it and democratic ones at least give us a chance.
 
Hugo Democracy is a man-made system, meaning rule by the people for the people. Thus it is contrary to Islam, because rule is for Allaah, the Most High, the Almighty, and it is not permissible to give legislative rights to any human being, no matter who he is.
 
Men and women are not the same nor are they "equal" as some folks would have us believe. Whatever is on one side of an 'equals' sign must be exactly the same as what is on the other side without any difference in value, only in the way that it is expressed. How then could we say that a man, who is unable to conceive or give birth and then breast feed a baby is the equal to a woman who can?

They are equal in their beliefs and good deeds of course. But still they are not the same as each other. Each one must fulfill their role as humans.
Praise be to Allaah.

This is a long and well written post but I have some trouble with its starting premise. Of course men and women are not the same biologically but anyone can list 100s of differences and 100s of similarities and the is no logical or compelling reason to select just a biological one. Surely, God does not see us just in biological terms and fulfilling our role is not simply a biological task as you argue.

In every walk of life and learning women can and have equalled men and often surpassed them. There are women theologians, doctors, lawyers, authors, actors, musicians, politicians, mathematicians, pilots, managers, engineers ..... They have risen to the top in all these areas and often become internationally recognised with things such as Nobel prizes.

I therefore submit that you premise is unfounded and by so doing you are also in my view underestimating God and basing your argument that might have been true 1,400 years ago in Arabia but cannot possibly be true in the modern world.
 
salaam

first of all you yourself said that no country has sharia and then you gave Iran as an example so??????

"Indeed no country in the world applies all of Sharia" - Hugo

Sharia is not based on slavery??? tell me where slavery is legalised today??? maybe the factories of big corparations - sharia isnt based on slavery or oppresion - it was applied fairly throughout times - muslims history has always been far more plural and tolerant then any many cultures - there have been times of distrest but also times when it worked far better then any other system at its time

sharia is based on the protection of 5 things
- The deen (way of life Islam)
- life
-property
-Honour
-Intellect

Today its thanks to many factors why sharia or democracy can not be applied in the mid east or any other country - tyrant rulers and western interference has also distorted the middle east.

1 - Men and women are not the same - so the sharia caters for each gender - the non muslim can live by there own law anyway in sharia state (a millet sytem during the Ottoman empire). - Jews especially prospered in spain and the Ottoman empire historically.

2 - give examples on the property law???

3 - other religions also regulated slavery in the past I dont think any scholar or muslim believes it can happen now - on the contarary slavery is no longer needed.

4 - Not a big issue in sharia when you look at the big pitcure

why are you inforcing your oppressive view on other people any way - your calling sharia oppressive and un equitable - muslims think otherwise - and who are you to telling muslims to have democracy what if the muslims dont want it.

learn about Iran an ex democracy and what the US did with it - western influence itself is Partially to blame for the lack of democracy - Noam Chomsky might be a good a person to read and Robert Fisk.

peace.
 
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I wonder how many of the people screaming about equality favor communism :)
 
Hugo Women are considered equal in the sight of God when it comes to their beliefs and good deeds, but are given Differnt roles then men and there for we are not the same as each other. Each one must fulfill their role as humans
Equal means then same we do have similarity but not the same so cant be equal :D
The social roles assigned by the Shariah to man and woman within the family emanate from one simple but profound reality: the two are biologically and sexually different; only the woman can bear children. Other important psychological, physical and social differences follow from this. But even if, for the sake of argument, these other genuine difference are dismissed as having been ‘socially caused’, the reality of this biological and sexual difference is impossible t deny.
The sharia basically is being demonized in the world today and this is greatly due to ignorance and what the media has done to taint the image of muslims all around.
 
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YES We Muslims do want sharia law but not the taliban version which is brutal and nothing to do with Islam!
 
Honestly, as a Muslim woman I dont need a kafir to tell me Islam doesn't treat me well. I'm very much happy, thank you very much!

And Hugo, with all due respect, you have much to learn :)

"Democratic" countries have loads of mess to clean up in their backyard before they think about spreading it elsewhere. Its like taking a dirty cloth and trying to clean the mirror!
 
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Honestly, as a Muslim woman I dont need a kafir to tell me Islam doesn't treat me well. I'm very much happy, thank you very much!

And Hugo, with all due respect, you have much to learn :)

!

Salaam

Great post.

peace
 
Honestly, as a Muslim woman I dont need a kafir to tell me Islam doesn't treat me well. I'm very much happy, thank you very much!

And Hugo, with all due respect, you have much to learn :)

"Democratic" countries have loads of mess to clean up in their backyard before they think about spreading it elsewhere. Its like taking a dirty cloth and trying to clean the mirror!

I am not aware that I said Islam does not treat you well. I said Sharia allows you to be treated badly by any modern standard. I also strongly object to being called kafir and as you must know the term is more like an insult when used in Arabic and I have never heard my Arabic friends uses the term about anyone, least of all me.

If your only response is to insult then that is hardly a worthy arguments is it? I agree I have much to learn; presumably you don't? I have read very widely on Islamic subjects and spent a lot of time working with Muslims and I have never been treated with anything but respect and friendship and and I think I therefore I know more than most.

Of course democratic countries have issues and difficulties but at least they are open and honest about them. I suggest you look in your own mirror and see what a mess many Islamic countries are in - do I have to name them? There is a saying in English "there are none so blind as those who do not want to see".
 
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