Shaving one’s beard for fear of persecution

[Malaikah]

read the thread^^^ and posts carefully before reply and you will see it is a Muslim soldier

and if you read properly Sr. Ambrosia post is clearly about an afflicted lady

Actually her post said nothing about the picture being a woman. It implies it is a man.

further posts by other Google scholars say that one must keep it even at pain of death

Do you realise that any good that comes from your posts is lost when you insult other members by calling them google scholars?

Anyway, the first post did not imply that. We don't even know what kind of persecution the person was facing. there is nothing to indicate it was death. The reply implied that even people who shaved were attacked so shaving his beard isn't going to help, and that the people who were attacked also provoked the attack somehow:

"But what happened to others was, in most cases, because of provocation on their part, not just because they let their beards grow; it also happened to some of those who shave their beards."

all the `ulamaa of Salaf, including the Four Imams, agreed that shaving the beard is haram, all I am arguing for is there are excption in cases of dire need (you cant det any dire than dying)​

Alhamdulilah, then we are in agreement.

 

[NoName55]

I think the chinese have a hard time growing beard.

Anyway, back to the topic, i am not sure in which country its dangerous to keep beard.

But here in my country, i am required to do national service whereby we are not to have beard, even a little as shown in the above picture.

If you were allowed to keep the beard can you imagine state of your lungs During NBC training?

Actually her post said nothing about the picture being a woman. It implies it is a man.

i must disagree, line above the picture + name/description of disease is 2 major clues

 

[ABWAN]

Sis, my post wasn't directed at your post. I was giving my general comments. Millions of Muslims don't keep beards and we must have consideration for them as well. Majority of the scholars still doesn't constitute 100%.

As much as I hate to get into this debate, I cant avoid posting my reply to this comment.

Ahsan, I guess your point is that since the majority of muslims choose to not follow something, there should be some leniency. I have to disagree with your conclusion. Although I dont have statistics to backup, more than 50% of the muslim population dont even pray the 5 compulsory prayers. Does it mean that the scholars should let these people skip the prayers? I guess your counter argument would be that while Salat is compulsory, having beard is not. According to the 4 major madhaibs, it is either unlawful or offensive to shave the beard. It also shows the level of taqwa of each individual. Besides, there is always an insistence in islam to be different from the followers of other faith.

As for the issue of women have hair, Imam Nawawi mentioned that it is not unlawful for a woman to shave her beard (if she has excessive hair). it is rather commendable (mustahabb) for her to do so, after seeking the permission of her husband.

finally I request all you muslim folks to not waste your time on such conversation. Such conversations can wait until ramadhan is over. Try to use every second of this month as efficiently as possible to seek more rewards!

 

[Abdul-Raouf]

bro NoName....sorry for making you angry ....

I apologise for my load of rubbbish statement(your way)....

May ALLAH forgive me for my wrong statements.....

all the `ulamaa of Salaf, including the Four Imams, agreed that shaving the beard is haram, all I am arguing for is there are excption in cases of dire need (you cant get any dire than dying)​

^^^ Can u explain more about committin sin incase of savin ones own life

Are all haraam actions are exempted in case of dyin ....?

Jazakallah khair.... for your valuable efforts.

 

[جوري]

Actually her post said nothing about the picture being a woman. It implies it is a man.
.

I don't want to interrupt a good thing.. and again, I am not looking for a debate since growing/shaving a beard is entirely outside my area of expertise (religiously speaking) Hypertrichosis and hirsutism are the excessive growth of hair on the female body, thus it is easily understood whether or not her eyes or rest of face are shown that it is in fact a female!.. any google search can confirm that just by typing either terms in search engine.. I am not cutting and pasting an image for fun by proxy... but to establish that such cases exist in either gender... Men can have klinefelter's, women can have PCO and this can actually be very common even without established endocrine or chromosomal anomalies.. furthermore a man can have a perfectly nice beard and then suffer folliculitis.. and then not only will he have to shave his beard to clear out the infection, but may never grow hair again in those areas afflicted ... or hair can grow in but patchy.. why do I write all this? simple.. if you can find at least one exception to the rule and not be overly harsh or critical, then you can see where another exception might exist?.. Again, I am neither for nor against.. I just want to establish that not everything is clear black or white.. and there are definite gray areas...

Now I hope we can all just be kind to one another in Ramadan and outside of it insha'Allah.. I may be growing blind imsad , but I don't need big red writing, or to be spoken of in absentia for a point to be made.. everyone has an opinion.. I think everyone is simply making a case for why they believe something is/isn't 100% etched in stone.. ultimately Allah knows best.. we should make our best effort with what we know and make our intentions clear to Allah SWT
Ramadan kareem

 

[Malaikah]

Oh, sorry purest, I totally thought it was a man! I missed the line above the picture.

Anyway I just don't understand what women having facial hair has to do with the topic? We are talking about men!

I am sure we can all also agree that if there is a medical need for a man to shave his beard (because there is a nest of something or the other growing in it or whatever) then it is a different case than just shaving for no reason, or shaving only for the fear of some verbal abuse, or whatever.

 

[جوري]

Oh, sorry purest, I totally thought it was a man! I missed the line above the picture.

Anyway I just don't understand what women having facial hair has to do with the topic? We are talking about men!

I posted it since the brother implied that not growing a beard is to be imitating of women.. I wanted to establish that exceptions to the rule exist, and such shouldn't be grounds for adverse criticism!


Addendum as per yours.. indeed you can find 'medical' exceptions, thus I can readily conclude, that if one exists under one harsh circumstance. it can exist in another harsh circumstance?-- the whole point is really not to be judgmental where one is not clear on all aspects.. surely somethings can fall under 'throwing oneself in tahloka'-- as far as I am concerned if we don't have a scholar understanding the individual case, then we are all just passing random opinions, and stimulating friction amongst ourselves, when we should be growing close together in the holy month of Ramadan? Allah knows best... forgive me if I upset any of you...

 

[Abdul-Raouf]

This wat i said before...

Sister here in this thread..we are talkin about men who can grow beard(mean for whom beard is growin).......and about him shaving his growing beard... and my posts are related to those categories of men....

I posted it since the brother implied that not growing a beard is to be imitating of women.... I wanted to establish that exceptions to the rule exist, and such shouldn't be grounds for adverse criticism!

Not growing a beard is to be imitating of women
>>> I have told this only in context of guys who are capable of growing ....

If the beard doesnt grow (medically).... they wont be considered as commitin sin...

We are not talkin about the exceptional cases in this thread...

 

[Abdul-Raouf]

we are all just passing random opinions, and stimulating friction amongst ourselves, when we should be growing close together in the holy month of Ramadan? Allah knows best... forgive me if I upset any of you...

^^ Sorry ALL If Im responsible for that ^^

 

[Woodrow]

I think that there are some areas we are all in agreement.

1. It is desired for a man to grow a beared

2. It is usually haraam to shave a beard.

3. Conditions exist where a man can not grow a beard

4. Our intent should be to have a beard

5. We can not judge the reason why a person would find it necessary to shave his beard even if his desire is to grow a beard

6. None of us are scholars.

7. There is no point in any of us getting angry simply because none of us is capable of judging the actions of any of our Brothers


With that said let us remember what Month this is and remember, there is no purpose for us to become angry or cause our Brothers and Sisters to become angry.

If we can not reply out of love, let us remain quiet.

 

[sevgi]

^^ Sorry ALL If Im responsible for that ^^

me tooooooooo!!!!

 

[Umu 'Isa]

:salamext:
Subhan Allaah... I decided on closing the thread. This got too ridiculous, people talking from their own opinions. This isn't a matter for us to be wasting our time talking about, rather it comes down to the hadeeth of the Prophet (saws) and the scholars who are educated in these matters to discuss. End of story.