Shaykh Google not helping me =(

[Re.TiReD]

:salamext:

Hang on, athari's say that ashari's make ta'weel whilst they themselves make tafweedh. When ashari's actually say that they use tafweedh anyway =S

The Divine Attributes and the way of Consigning (tafwid) the meaning to Allah
The preferred position of both the Ash`aris and Maturidis when it comes to understanding those Divine Attributes that may appear to indicate some similitude between the Creator and creation is:

Hmm

WassalamuAlaykum

 

[- Qatada -]

:wasalamex


Ta'weel in this context would mean turning away from the obvious meaning of the texts towards possible, preferred meanings. I.e. power instead of hand etc.


Tafweedh would mean;

Also among the Ashaira are those that made tafweedh of the texts mandatory; saying that the reality is that these texts do not prove any understandable meaning; that no one understood them, neither the Messenger nor the Sahaba nor anyone else. They say that the requirement, and in fact the reality, of these texts is that these attributes do not contain any explanation for the people...
http://saheefah.org/2007/12/02/a-response-to-tafwid-and-comments-on-the-laughter-and-anger-of-allah/


The difference therefore is that the salaf accepted Allah's hand being a hand [but not similar to the creation], whereas the people of tafweedh might say that 'we do not know what hand means at all'.


You see the difference? Without a doubt the dhahir is better, more truthful and the proper guidance since that is the belief of the sahabah, tabi'een and the imams. So whose more rightly guided? The pious people who Allah's Messenger testified to as 'the best of generations', or those that came after them and had less knowledge of the religion?

If you really want i can provide you with loads of quotes of the salaf accepting the dhahir of the texts.

 

[Re.TiReD]

:wasalamex


Ta'weel in this context would mean turning away from the obvious meaning of the texts towards possible, preferred meanings. I.e. power instead of hand etc.


Tafweedh would mean;

Also among the Ashaira are those that made tafweedh of the texts mandatory; saying that the reality is that these texts do not prove any understandable meaning; that no one understood them, neither the Messenger nor the Sahaba nor anyone else. They say that the requirement, and in fact the reality, of these texts is that these attributes do not contain any explanation for the people...
http://saheefah.org/2007/12/02/a-response-to-tafwid-and-comments-on-the-laughter-and-anger-of-allah/


The difference therefore is that the salaf accepted Allah's hand being a hand [but not similar to the creation], whereas the people of tafweedh might say that 'we do not know what hand means at all'.

Akhee I think you might have made a slight mistake in your post, wallahu A'lam.

But at one point you explain tafweedh and then say the people of tafweedh, which means that they are the 'other' i.e. ashari? Right? So what did the salaf accept if not tafweedh nor ta'weel?

WassalamuAlaykum

 

[- Qatada -]

Akhee I think you might have made a slight mistake in your post, wallahu A'lam.

But at one point you explain tafweedh and then say the people of tafweedh, which means that they are the 'other' i.e. ashari? Right? So what did the salaf accept if not tafweedh nor ta'weel?

WassalamuAlaykum

:salamext:


The link that i quoted said the ashaa'irah were the people of tafweedh and ta'wil.

The salaf accepted the dhahir [apparentness] of the verses/ahadith.


So if hand was mentioned, they said we accept its hand [but not like the creation]. The ash'aris would say its not hand [its power], or they would say we dont know what hand means - full stop.


I have to go now. Read the saheefah.org link for more info, type in the search box. It's brief and to the point alhamdulillah.

:salamext:

 

[Re.TiReD]

AsslaamuAlaykum

Ooh I understand now! JazakAllah khayr!

The only thing I was confused about is that I thought from ta'weel and tafweedh, one was accepted by the atharites and the other by the asharites but from what you're saying both are attributed to the ashari's and the athari's go by the dhaahir.

JazakAllah khayr

Although I came across the following:

3) Salaf: They refused to make Ta’weel and practised Tafweedh which meant that they consigned the true meanings and modality (how’ness) of these verses pertaining to Hands of Allah (SWT) etc. both to Allah. In summary these said that we don’t want to debate with you as to what these verses mean we simply say, “We believe in them and only Allah (SWT) knows truly what these verses actually mean and since Allah (SWT) & His Rasool (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) remain silent on this, we will also remain silent about them” and we will also not interpret these to mean “Power etc.”….we simply believe in them and remain silent

Anyway I think I understand most of it now and I'll check the links insha'Allah

WassalamuAlaykum

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


what that quote said is wrong, we say hand is hand - but not like the creation. the salaf didn't do tafweedh.


..yeh, now i'm really going. jazak Allah for understanding.


:salamext:

 

[Re.TiReD]

:wasalamex

I know you've gone but I just want to say that I've quoted an excerpt that says ashari's accept just that too ^ even though they leave specific matters to Allah (swt) which seems much safer anyway.

Basically they affirm what Allah (swt) affirms such as His hand. Nothing more and nothing less.

Anyway JazakAllah khayr for your time, I think I should get back to my assignment lol because I've sidetracked a lot.

WassalamuAlaykum