should I join the forces?

[syed1]

I am not sure what my purpose is in life. yes I know the main purpose is to worship Allah alone but after that what am I doing with my time...

I go to university and I am studying something which to be completely honest, I am not really interested in it I am kinda just doing it...

Anways Its winter break now and I am trying to stay occupied, trying to learn arabic and stay productive but I just had an idea which I think is so awesome..

why not join the forces here in Canada? I am only 20 right now and an approximate time for one to serve if 3-9 years so it would not be too bad.. Although I think my mom would be against it..

however,

there are so many benefits- pay for your education - and not to mention the added respect you get and the discipine you receive..

just wondering, has anyone else thought about joining the military or has joined?

 

[Aprender]

Well, what else are you interested in studying?

 

[syed1]

Man, I wish I knew.. My mind is all over the place It's like I cant stick to one thing for too long. I don't know what I want to to right now I'm in business last year I was into science was about to transfer to a science program, lately I've been into digital media/arts. I feel like I have passion to make a video/clip and tell a short story through it but I don't have the equipment or skills that would be needed to edit or add effects...

 

[Salahudeen]

My brother, I don't think you should join the army because it's leaders are not Muslim and it would fight to defend secularism and democracy, consider the following scenario's, they call you to fight against Muslims what would you do? If you refuse to obey orders you could face prison if you obey orders and kill another Muslim you've done big sin. By being in that army you support the system it defends, you fight for democracy, nationalism, secularism, you fight for a system that enslaves people to man made laws and legalizes all kinds of haraam/crimes.

But the thing is there isn't a Muslim army that doesn't stand for all of the above, even the armies in the Muslim countries fight for nationalism and a form of government that is contrary to Islam.

So you're in a hard situation. Why don't you learn a skill that can benefit the Muslim ummah? I don't think you will find fulfilment in anything you study unless you make your purpose for studying it for the sake of Allah and to help the Muslims with it.

 

[islamica]

You should consider teaching if you can't make up your mind. This way your degree won't be a waste and you can always do masters in anything else you want. With teaching you can also go almost anywhere and teach, give you a chance to get out and see the world. You could even sigh up with Islamic organizations, like Mercy International or something and go teach in poor regions for a short while. Other than that, if you are totally lost then take a semester off and go study Islam. Inshallah it'll give you some focus back in your life and guidance on where to go and what to do.

 

[syed1]

Why don't you learn a skill that can benefit the Muslim ummah? I don't think you will find fulfilment in anything you study unless you make your purpose for studying it for the sake of Allah and to help the Muslims with it.

I get what your saying and it makes sense but If I was called for war while being a part of the forces, I would defend this country like it was my own and if that meant having to kill another Muslim in battle so be it? I am sure God can differentiate from killing an innocent human being and killing someone in battle/war.
Well, Sal, how do you study business for the cause of Allah? For example, my intention to study anything I believe can be rooted to pleasing Allah some how...

Consider the following way: I study business, I get good marks, I get a good job hence I makes my parents pleased/happy and hence I have made God happy ?

Or consider this, I study get a job do well and use that money to give back to the poor help build mosques etc.. so essentially my intention I believe is firm ultimately I want to please God...

You should consider teaching if you can't make up your mind.

Interesting that you would bring that up , I have actually thought about it and I do want to be a teacher, but not right after university, perhaps later in my career when I am a bit older but when Im young in my 20-40 I think I want to be doing something else..

 

[User29123]

I am not sure what my purpose is in life. yes I know the main purpose is to worship Allah alone but after that what am I doing with my time...

I go to university and I am studying something which to be completely honest, I am not really interested in it I am kinda just doing it...

Anways Its winter break now and I am trying to stay occupied, trying to learn arabic and stay productive but I just had an idea which I think is so awesome..

why not join the forces here in Canada? I am only 20 right now and an approximate time for one to serve if 3-9 years so it would not be too bad.. Although I think my mom would be against it..

however,

there are so many benefits- pay for your education - and not to mention the added respect you get and the discipine you receive..

just wondering, has anyone else thought about joining the military or has joined?

I was thinking of joining the Armed forces however don't your basically nothing to them they want you to fight their stupid wars while they talk in their nice silky suits. I leaarn the truth. Don't even join a Muslim army they are all the same get on with your life.

Plus I think Canada's & USA army is pretty racist, plus they are not Muslims and when they fight Iran you will be killing Muslims...innocent Muslims..

 

[syed1]

I was thinking of joining the Armed forces however don't your basically nothing to them they want you to fight their stupid wars while they talk in their nice silky suits.

I don't care if am nothing to them if I am merely just another body to be sacrificed, that is not why I would join or want to join... I want to join purely for the experience and also since, well, what else am I doing with my life? If I happen to die in battle so be it

 

[Insaanah]

if that meant having to kill another Muslim in battle so be it? I am sure God can differentiate from killing an innocent human being and killing someone in battle/war.

Allah says:

But whoever kills a believer intentionally - his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally, and Allah has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment. (Qur'an 4:93)

Simple as that. Your choice.

 

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

I would read this brother...

Is It Permissible To Join A Kaafir Army? « Umar Lee

In the years since 9/11, we have seen a serious re-defining and whitewashing of what our deen is and is not. Since the Ft Hood shootings, and even before that, we have seen many Muslim organizations refer to US troops which are occupying Muslim lands, as “our troops”. They have celebrated Muslims that have gone over to fight and kill other Muslims. We see Muslim spokesmen saying that the Muslims must abandon the concept of “Ummah”. We are seeing Muslims and Muslim Organizations calling for American citizenship to be put above their loyalty to other Muslims around the world. This is a very strange thing as prior to 9/11 the ulamaa of Islam had many fatwas that said just the opposite, especially with regards to a Muslim joining a kufr army and going to fight other Muslims.

We find the people nowadays saying that it is perfectly permissible and even praiseworthy to join the kufr army. This is in contrast to what we saw in the past from the scholars. I would like to know what our friends at Muslim Matters have to say about the following fatwas from such scholars as Sh Ibn Uthaymeen and Sh. Al Munajid. What do they think the scholars would say about al wala wal bara (something completely forgotten about and not taught these days)?

This first fatwa is from Sh Al-Munajjid:

I work in the army of a non-Muslim state, and there are wars between them and the Muslims. What is the ruling if they send me with a division of this army to wage war against the Muslims? As a Muslim, my feelings are that I never want to fight against Muslims in any war. What should I do? What is the ruling if I go…?

Praise be to Allaah.

If you are sent to wage war against the Muslims, then it is not permissible for you to take part at all. Helping the kaafirs against the Muslims is a form of major kufr which puts one beyond the pale of Islam. Allaah says concerning one who supports the mushrikeen (interpretation of the meaning):

“And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’, i.e., friends), then surely, he is one of them”[al-Maa’idah 5:51]

With regard to how you may get out of this situation, and what excuse you can give to get out of this dilemma if it happens, we ask Allaah to help you, and we suggest that you consult some Muslims who have relevant knowledge or experience.

We want to emphasize to you the necessity of finding other employment and of leaving service in the army of the kaafirs, because that implies helping them, strengthening them and increasing the numbers of their fighters and supporters – unless your work can bring some benefits to the Muslims, such as giving information and secrets of the kaafirs to the Muslims so as to help the Muslims, or if your work is purely da’wah, such as giving khutbahs and leading prayers for the Muslims in the kaafir army whilst also advising them to avoid any work that will strengthen the kaafirs. We ask Allaah to keep you safe from temptation and to give you a good end in this world and in the Hereafter.

This one is from Sh Ibn Muhammad Saalih al-Uthaymeen, May Allah have mercy upon him:

What is the ruling on Muslims serving in the military of non muslim country ? What is the evidence for its permissibility or prohibition? And lastly, what is the status of a Muslim working to help those in the military to fulfill their obligations to Allaah while serving in the Army, Navy, or whatever?

Praise be to Allaah.

We put this question to Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, may Allaah preserve him, who answered as follows:

“Praise be to Allaah, the Lord of the Worlds. Military matters are problematic, because they involve helping these kuffaar to wage war against the Muslims or those who have entered into a treaty with the Muslims. If no such thing is involved, it may be advantageous for Muslims to work in these armies so as to learn their secrets and be aware of their potential evil. In other words, if working in these armies could be of benefit, it may be permissible, otherwise it is not allowed.”

On this basis, if a person works as a preacher or daa’iyah or imaam or muezzin, serving the Muslims and calling non-Muslims to Islam, then there is nothing wrong with this.

And for good measure, here is one more fatwa


The evidence is clearly against those who are saying that these things are permissible.
​

 

[Salahudeen]

I get what your saying and it makes sense but If I was called for war while being a part of the forces, I would defend this country like it was my own and if that meant having to kill another Muslim in battle so be it? I am sure God can differentiate from killing an innocent human being and killing someone in battle/war.
Well, Sal, how do you study business for the cause of Allah? For example, my intention to study anything I believe can be rooted to pleasing Allah some how...

Consider the following way: I study business, I get good marks, I get a good job hence I makes my parents pleased/happy and hence I have made God happy ?

Or consider this, I study get a job do well and use that money to give back to the poor help build mosques etc.. so essentially my intention I believe is firm ultimately I want to please God...



Interesting that you would bring that up , I have actually thought about it and I do want to be a teacher, but not right after university, perhaps later in my career when I am a bit older but when Im young in my 20-40 I think I want to be doing something else..

Brother If you were involved in a battle/war would you not want to be in the camp of the Muslims? or would you choose the camp of the disbelievers?

Lets say Canada decides to ally with America and attack your native country of origin because they're supposedly "a threat to national security and the country has become a breeding ground for terrorists", are you going to go and aid in the killing of your own people?

Its a mistake to assume you will all ways be defending, and even if it was just defending, what is it that you're defending? A government of disbelievers who make haraam halal and halal haraam? If you were KIA what would have died doing? defending a disbelieving regime. Maybe you're idea is to save the people of Canada from any threats, but in trying to achieve this you also defend a regime that is based upon disbelief.

You may argue that your intention to defend the people of Canada in the army makes your defending a disbelieving regime insignificant, but its not, defending a system of disbelief is opposing belief in Allah, when you face Allah you want to be able to say "I fought to make your rule supreme, I fought to make your word the most high" you don't want to be saying, "I fought to defend a disbelieving government who opposed you and made themselves partners along side you"

Look at this way brother, would you join the army of Pharaoh if you lived in Egypt during the time of Musa, because its the same thing, in terms of the belief they're both the same. Without question you'd think no way why would I join his army for, he's a disbeliever and I'm a believer, why would I fight for him and his people when they oppose Allah.

You're right about the other bit, this should be part of your motivation for studying, the things you mentioned. Maybe you can do Istikhara prayer for guidance.

 

[User29123]

I get what your saying and it makes sense but If I was called for war while being a part of the forces, I would defend this country like it was my own and if that meant having to kill another Muslim in battle so be it? I am sure God can differentiate from killing an innocent human being and killing someone in battle/war.
Well, Sal, how do you study business for the cause of Allah? For example, my intention to study anything I believe can be rooted to pleasing Allah some how...

Consider the following way: I study business, I get good marks, I get a good job hence I makes my parents pleased/happy and hence I have made God happy ?

Or consider this, I study get a job do well and use that money to give back to the poor help build mosques etc.. so essentially my intention I believe is firm ultimately I want to please God...



Interesting that you would bring that up , I have actually thought about it and I do want to be a teacher, but not right after university, perhaps later in my career when I am a bit older but when Im young in my 20-40 I think I want to be doing something else..

You won't be pleasing GOD because the Americans / Canadian army kill innocent people and harm animals and also destroy mosques, you will be working along side USA soldiers remember that.....Here is where you can being:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_6p55SIF60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kipH0DPMpaY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyDcYDLJycg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAJNyLSNDBQ

 

[Salahudeen]

 

[User29123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5DfCS11hy4&feature=related

 

[Crystal]

why not join the forces here in Canada?

Hi,
Well its your decision but considering you are Muslim it may be difficult for you to kill people whom you share a religion with if it did come to that. Why don't you look up stuff about becoming a peacekeeper if you are interested in the experience - i don't know if it will pay for your education though and I don't know if you would need previous experience - may be something like the red crescent would interest you - just an idea!

 

[جوري]

it is swell.. kill kill kill but I am not longer the 'monster that I once was' it is all out of my system now.. hasbona Allah wa'ni3ma alwakeel

 

[Abz2000]

first you ask what type of usury you should promote, then you say that if you had to kill a Muslim on the orders of kuffar "so be it?", knwing you wouldn't be allowed to pick and choose who's "guilty".
well let me tell you that those Muslims are my brothers and sisters and if i was your superior i would send you to kill your mother and father knowing you'd coward out of it.
what kind of hypocrisy does it require to murder someone else's innocent father or mother or brother or sister, yet to stall at your own?



بَشِّرِ الْمُنَـفِقِينَ بِأَنَّ لَهُمْ عَذَاباً أَلِيماً
(138. Give to the hypocrites the tidings that there is for them a painful torment.)

الَّذِينَ يَتَّخِذُونَ الْكَـفِرِينَ أَوْلِيَآءَ مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَيَبْتَغُونَ عِندَهُمُ الْعِزَّةَ فَإِنَّ العِزَّةَ للَّهِ جَمِيعاً (139.
Those who take disbelievers for friends instead of believers, do they seek honor with them Verily, then to Allah belongs all honor).

Quran 4:138-139


​

 

[Snowflake]

The advice given will suffice, insha Allah. I just wish I'd never seen this thread in the first place imsad

 

[MustafaMc]

I want to join purely for the experience and also since, well, what else am I doing with my life? If I happen to die in battle so be it

When you sign up for service in the military, you are little more to them than a weapon operator or a facilitator for one whose job is to kill and destroy. They OWN you and if you refuse orders then you WILL be court martial-ed for insubordination. Just over a week ago I was talking to a Christian whose son-in-law served in the US Army in Iraq. He was ordered to kill a 10-year old boy who was acting suspicious and had something concealed under his clothes. The boy only had food, but they thought it might be a bomb. The soldiers who return home are often seriously wounded, if not physically then at least psychologically. They often return to a 'civilian life' that they are no longer suited for and suffer higher unemployment and suicide rates. The soldiers who happen to return disillusioned about why they killed and saw their buddies killed are seen as 'enemies of the State' in the same manner as those 'conspiracy theorists' or 'truthers' who question the official story about 9/11 and those who advocate for the right to bear arms.

If you were living in Mecca during the time of Prophet Muhammad (saaws), would you join the kafir army that went to fight the Muslims at Uhud 'purely for the experience'? Perhaps you would have been in a position to kill a sahabah or maybe even Prophet Muhammad (saaws) himself astaghfir'Allah, or perhaps you would have died as a kafir. Would you just say 'so be it'? A Muslim joining or being drafted/conscripted into military service for any non-Muslim government is a most serious decision that should not be entered into lightly. I know I would not want the blood of that 10-year old boy on my conscious and have to give an account for it on Judgment Day.

 

[Dagless]

I get what your saying and it makes sense but If I was called for war while being a part of the forces, I would defend this country like it was my own and if that meant having to kill another Muslim in battle so be it? I am sure God can differentiate from killing an innocent human being and killing someone in battle/war.

Nobody has attacked Canada directly for a very very long time. The kind of wars you would be involved in would not be for the defence of your country.
Btw as has been mentioned; killing a Muslim = hell afaik.