Sikhism- a continuation of prophet hood?

[matobosha]

Avar with all due respect you have never shown us anywhere in the Quran a distortion of facts that can say that The holy Quran is eroded.
If I were you I will take the Quran and read it first b4 you challenge the muslims.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Avar with all due respect you have never shown us anywhere in the Quran a distortion of facts that can say that The holy Quran is eroded.
If I were you I will take the Quran and read it first b4 you challenge the muslims.

But, I've just given you a quote that is contradicting. And if anything else is posted, it's deleted by the mods. Is this fair? You can't ask a person to debate when it favours one over the other.

 

[Erundur]

According to that link you posted it states the following...

''As it stands, Muhammad is not the last prophet nor is he the one who seals up the prophethood. According to Islamic narrations, Jesus is the last prophet who will eradicate unbelief and usher in the final hour. Hence, Jesus seals up prophecy and vision, not Muhammad''

Explain this please?

:salamext:

Its an anti-islamic website, ran by sam shamoun.
http://www.load-islam.com/search_result.php?txtsearch=Sam+Shamoun&selcontent=0

Prophet Isa (a.s.) is not the last prophet, he will come back to finish what he had started.

The Dajjaal – a man created by Allaah, who will appear at the end of time because of something that makes Allaah angry. He will spread corruption on earth and will claim divinity, calling on people to worship him. They will be tested by the extraordinary powers that Allaah will grant him, such as causing rain to fall, reviving the earth with vegetation and extracting the treasures of the earth. He will be a young man with a ruddy complexion, short of stature, with curly hair. He will be one-eyed; his right eye will be flat and his other eye will have a thick piece of flesh over it. Written between his eyes will be the word “Kaafir” (disbeliever). Most of those who follow him will be Jews. He will meet his end at the hands of ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary) who will kill him with a spear in Lod, which is in Palestine. http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=171&ln=eng&txt=Jesus

AvarAllahNoor
But, I've just given you a quote that is contradicting. And if anything else is posted, it's deleted by the mods. Is this fair? You can't ask a person to debate when it favours one over the other.

Its an anti-islamic website, ran by sam shamoun.
http://www.load-islam.com/search_result.php?txtsearch=Sam+Shamoun&selcontent=0

Question:
I have a Question to ask concerning Jesus (peace be upon him). Did Jesus (peace be upon him) was ascended twice to Allah? cause i have read in some books that it mentions Jesus (peace be upon him) ascending to the skies and them later was brought down to comfort his mother and tell the jews of something and then he left. is this true?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.​

Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, tells us that Jesus (upon whom be peace) was raised up to heaven just one time, in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“But Allaah raised him up (with his body and soul) unto Himself…” [al-Nisa’ 4:158] and Allaah does not tell us that Jesus was sent back to this earth. So those who claim that Jesus was sent back to this earth have to bring us evidence and proof. If they cannot do that – and they will never be able to do it – then their argument has no basis.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (remember) when Allaah said: ‘O Eesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that ‘Eesa (Jesus) is Allaah’s son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (monotheists, who worship none but Allaah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the oneness of Allaah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, or in His Holy Books] till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute.”[Aal ‘Imraan 3:55]

Ibn Jareer, may Allaah have mercy on him, explained that the word “mutawaffeeka” [which usually refers to death and is translated here as “raise” – Translator] refers to his being taken up, but most of the scholars said that the meaning here is sleep, as Allaah says elsewhere in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is He, Who takes your souls [yatawaffaakum] by night (when you are asleep)…”[al-An’aam 6:60]

“It is Allaah Who takes away [yatawaffaa] the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep…”[al-Zumar 39:42]
When he got up from sleeping, the Prophet

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would say, “Al-hamdu Lillaah illadhi ahyaanaa ba’da maa amaatanaa wa ilayh il-nushoor (Praise be to Allaah Who has brought us back to life after causing us to die, and unto Him is the resurrection).” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 6312; Muslim, 2711)

Allaah’s statement that He raised Jesus up to heaven is also a refutation of the Jews’ claim to have killed him. Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Because of their breaking the covenant, and of their rejecting the aayat (signs) of Allaah, and of their killing the Prophets unjustly, and of their saying, ‘Our hearts are wrapped (with coverings, i.e., we do not understand what the Messengers say)’ – nay, Allaah has set a seal upon their hearts because of their disbelief, so they believe not but a little.

And because of their (Jews’) disbelief and uttering against Maryam (Mary) a grave false charge (that she had committed illegal sexual intercourse);
And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah’ – but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e., ‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary)].

But Allaah raised him [‘Eesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allaah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise.
And there is none of the People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him [‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allaah and a human being], before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection, he [‘Eesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them.”[al-Nisa’ 4:155-159]

Jesus (peace be upon him) has not died yet; Allaah raised him up unto Himself because the Jews wanted to kill him, and he will descend again at the end of time and rule the earth according to Islam. He will live for as long as Allaah wants him to, then he will die and the Muslims will pray [the janaazah or funeral prayer] for him. Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The pronoun in the phrase before his death refers to Jesus (peace be upon him), i.e., there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in Jesus – that is when he comes back down to the earth before the Day of Resurrection, as we will explain below. At that time all of the People of the Book will believe in him because he will abolish the jizyah and will accept nothing but Islam…

The aayah (interpretation of the meaning)
“and [I will] clear you of those who disbelieve” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:55] means “by raising you up to heaven” and “I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection” is what did indeed happen. When Allaah took the Messiah (peace be upon him) up into heaven, his followers split into different groups.

Some of them believed in what Allaah had sent him with, that he was a slave and messenger of Allaah, the son of His female slave. Some of them exaggerated about him and made him the son of God, and others said that he was God, or that he was the third of three (trinity). Allaah described what they said in the Qur’aan, and refuted all of them. They continued like that for nearly three hundred years, then one of the Greek kings called Constantine came along and entered the Christian religion. It was said that this was a plot to corrupt the religion, that he was a philosopher, or that he was ignorant. Whatever the case, he changed and distorted the religion of the Messiah, adding things and taking things away. It was at the time of Constantine that pork was permitted and they began to pray towards the East; they made images in their churches, shrines and monasteries, and added ten days to their fasting because of a sin that he had committed, as they claim. The religion of the Messiah became the religion of Constantine. He built more than twelve thousand churches, shrines and monasteries for them, and the city that bore his name [Constantinople – now Istanbul]. A sect of Christians followed him and they prevailed over the Jews with the help of Allaah, because they were closer to the truth, even though all of them were kaafirs – may the curse of Allaah be upon them all! When Allaah sent Muhammad

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), some of those who believed in him believed truly in Allaah, His angels, His Books and His Messengers, so they were followers of every Prophet who had ever lived on earth. And Allaah knows best.
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=3221&ln=eng&txt=Jesus

 

[PCJS]

You Are attacking our faith and our HOLY QURAN!! PLEASE DELETE THIS THREAD ADMIN!

AvalAllahNoor,

This is where the problem is and was afraid of. Unless this is an official debate and we know people won't get offended, it isn't worth it. Even though the person we are discussing this stuff says she doesn't mind, someone else could mind...

You have to keep in mind that there are over one billion Muslims around the world and I am pretty sure this person doesn't speak for all of them. Although I could be wrong, I have this feeling that even though most Pakistani Muslims (especially Punjabis) are friendly with Sikh, there are some who like to argue. But when we counter-argue, we should keep rest of Muslims in mind as well and not say things that could be offensive to them...

 

[PCJS]

I hope this helps:

Bhairao, Fifth Mehl:
(Page: 1136, Line: 9)

varat na raha-o na mah ramdaanaa.
I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan.
(Page: 1136, Line: 9, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

tis sayvee jo rakhai nidaanaa. ||1||
I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. ||1||
(Page: 1136, Line: 9, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

ayk gusaa-ee alhu mayraa.
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
(Page: 1136, Line: 9, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

hindoo turak duhaaN naybayraa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
He adminsters justice to both Hindus and Muslims. ||1||Pause||
(Page: 1136, Line: 10, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

haj kaabai jaa-o na tirath poojaa.
I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines.
(Page: 1136, Line: 10, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

ayko sayvee avar na doojaa. ||2||
I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2||
(Page: 1136, Line: 10, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

poojaa kara-o na nivaaj gujaara-o.
I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.
(Page: 1136, Line: 11, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

ayk nirankaar lay ridai namaskaara-o. ||3||
I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||
(Page: 1136, Line: 11, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

naa ham hindoo na musalmaan.
I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.
(Page: 1136, Line: 11, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

alah raam kay pind paraan. ||4||
My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||
(Page: 1136, Line: 12, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

kaho kabeer ih kee-aa vakhaanaa.
Says Kabeer, this is what I say:
(Page: 1136, Line: 12, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

gur peer mil khud khasam pachhaanaa. ||5||3||
meeting with the Guru, my Spiritual Teacher, I realize God, my Lord and Master. ||5||3||
(Page: 1136, Line: 12, Raag: Bhaira-o, Author: Guru Arjan Dev)

 

[Malaikah]

I have this feeling that even though most Pakistani Muslims (especially Punjabis) are friendly with Sikh, there are some who like to argue.

You must not have realised that this is the Comparative religion section. This is what we do in here- compare religions! :rollseyes

 

[PCJS]

You must not have realised that this is the Comparative religion section. This is what we do in here- compare religions! :rollseyes

And who authorized it? I don't see any religious scholars here. Plus, compare religions is supposed to mean comparing aspects of religions, not trying to prove that one religion must be false because one person's perception goes against it....

 

[starfortress]

Muhammad is the last prophet, Jesus will return yes, but he is not the last prophet for a number of reasons, specifically because he is ruling by the law of Muhammad pbuh and other reasons that I forgot, hopefully others can explain.

May i goes with these words.We certainly believe in the Prophethood of all those who have been named in the Holy Quran as Prophets. But, we lack of reliable information by authentic sources on their teaching and their character. There is no doubt about the Prophethood of Noah, Ibrahim, Ishaque, Yusuf, Moses and Jesus Christ(peace be upon them) and as we believe in all of them.None of the Scriptures that revealed to them has come down to us in its original form so that we may benefit from its pristine message. Similarly, the life-history of none of these Prophets (pbut) has been handed down by any authentic means enabling us to follow their example in the various spheres of individual and collective existence.

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

061.001 Whatever is in the heavens and on earth, let it declare the Praises and Glory of Allah. for He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

061.002 O ye who believe! Why say ye that which ye do not?

061.003 Grievously odious is it in the sight of Allah that ye say that which ye do not.

061.004 Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

061.005 And remember, Moses said to his people: "O my people! why do ye vex and insult me, though ye know that I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you?" Then when they went wrong, Allah let their hearts go wrong. For Allah guides not those who are rebellious transgressors.

061.006 And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an *Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"

The Holy Qur'an As-Saff (61:1-6)

Jesus will return yes, but he is not the last prophet

Yes,because once again someday he(PBUH) will return only as a Massenger of Allah.with no new revelation or law with Him,nor successor to Muhammad(PBUH)

*Messenger-Unlike prophets, messengers are assured of success. All messengers are prophets but not vice versa.The concept of prophecy in Islam is broader than Judaism and Christianity since Muslims distinguish between "messengers" and "prophets".

p/s-Someone pls correct me if im wrong on these

Allah know best.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Who are these various other prophets that have been sent to other parts of the world? Lists 2000 or more, yes or no?

 

[starfortress]

Who are these various other prophets that have been sent to other parts of the world? Lists 2000 or more, yes or no?

Im not sure about that 2000 figures,so i wouldn't say Yes or Not.But it were stated as 25 in the Al-Quran.But there were possibilities for prophets other than those mentioned in the Qur’an.

"And certainly We sent messengers before you: there are some of them that We have mentioned to you and there are others whom We have not mentioned to you..." [40:78]

"For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger..."[16:36]

 

[One Man Army]

bhai gurdas has told clearly why Guru Nanak came. you dont need to look any futher then that. i have posted it previously twice on this topic. no 1s paying attension to it. but that is infact the answer to why he came.

 

[Grace Seeker]

bhai gurdas has told clearly why Guru Nanak came. you dont need to look any futher then that. i have posted it previously twice on this topic. no 1s paying attension to it. but that is infact the answer to why he came.

And as I understood that explanation, according to the Sikh view, Guru Nanak did NOT come to continue the prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh), but simply as a prophet in his own right, independent of any prophethood that Muhammad may or may not have held (depending on one's view of Muhammad) So, now my follow-up question:

What makes one person who comes and claims to speak for God a prophet and another person who does the same thing not a prophet? In other words, assuming that all persons are motivated by a sincere desire to represent God and make him known in ways that bring a spiritual blessing to the world, what are the qualifications for prophethood?

 

[One Man Army]

that quesion can be answered by further researching into the life of Guru Nanak ji. this answer is very difficult to answer in writing. its only by looking at the lifestyles, what they did in their lifes, and what they taught, that can make someone worthy of the status. if u read into any of the Gurus lives, what they did, u will find that no ordinary human being could do. e.g. the 9th Guru of the sikhs actually gave his head for another faith that where being oppressed to stand for the right of free speech. the 5th Guru was made to sit on a hot pan whilst having hot sand poured over his head, and whilst doing so instead of screaming in pain, he replied with, "your actions are sweet to me lord, Nanak begs for the treasure of your name, oh lord".
its by looking at what seems right, not any ordinary person can do this. if u look at any of the Guru Granth Sahib ji, u tell me if u can find one fing u disagree with. there have been scholars that repeat over and over that this is the scripture of humanity. The Gurus brought into time the theory of equaltiy of all human beings (men and women, christians sikhs muslims and all other human beings being equal), at a time where a whole race was governd by a caste system, and so called untouchables being treated like dirt.
its when someone has a direct link with God, this can only be proved through scriptures, and hence, you can only find authencity through scriptures. or else, word of mouth becomes chinease whisper. and its after looking at the scripture u can make a decision if you believe this is a prophet of the lord. and you can only then identify whether you feel this way of life is something extraordinary.

you will know if the persons a prophet by what they have taught. you seriously just have to look into their lives. personally i was serching into religions before becoming a sikh, and trying to find the way i want to follow, but the way the sikhs have come about, the way of life, i cant see how this cannot be a way of God. im not putting anyone down, as i have respect for anyone who has decided to practice their beliefs in order to find the lord. how can u call such person bad? no matter what they have chosen. So if you are a muslim, follow islam to the fullest, be good honest muslims, and the same goes for christians, and anyone else with different beliefs. this is what sikhi says.

 

[Grace Seeker]

So, their behavior is what qualifies them to be prophets? Or is it what convinces you that they were prophets? Or both?

 

[One Man Army]

its behaviour, way of life, teachings, what they did in their lives!

i think the core item is teachings.

i mean when your at school, you know when you have a good teacher, when your questions get answered, and you feel thats right. the same things happend with me n sikhi.

and teachings only endure through valid scriptures

 

[starfortress]

According to that link you posted it states the following...

''As it stands, Muhammad is not the last prophet nor is he the one who seals up the prophethood. According to Islamic narrations, Jesus is the last prophet who will eradicate unbelief and usher in the final hour. Hence, Jesus seals up prophecy and vision, not Muhammad''

Explain this please?

The person who's wrote that need to be more educates on Islam b4 make that such statement.It's a silly mistakes when he don't know what are the difference lies between The Prophet and Massenger of Allah.

Behold!Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom;, then comes to you a messenger, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.

[3:81]."

He also must be forgotted the fact that ALL THE PROPHETS are MESSENGERS,
but NOT ALL the MESSENGERS are PROPHETS.

Allah know best.

 

[PCJS]

Well folks,

Spirituality is pretty simple. Only religions have made is complexed. Jesus Christ, Mohammad Sahib or Guru Nanak Dev Ji's being prophet is not going to have any effect on any of us unless we try our best living a perfect life. Prefection is not confined to any religion. In fact, as soon as you start splitting humanity based upon organized religion, you are already going against perfection because part of perfection is recognize the whole mankind as one. God is not going to take us unless we have learnt spiritually perfected ourselves and that's what Sikhi is all about, living a perfect life and achieving spiritual perfection within ourselves. Even Jesus and Mohammad are not going to help unless you have lived a perfect life and have perfected yourself within.

Sikhi is not an organized religion and all about living a perfect life and perfecting ourselves within. I am convinced that there is no religion that preaches living more perfect life than Sikhi does.

Like Guru Nanak Dev Ji said, truth is highest fo all and living a truthfully is higher than truth...

Have a good day

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

So, their behavior is what qualifies them to be prophets? Or is it what convinces you that they were prophets? Or both?

No. The revelation that God sent them alone qualifies that they are prophets.

 

[Grace Seeker]

No. The revelation that God sent them alone qualifies that they are prophets.

And that is where my original question came from. If God sent revelation to someone other than the Guru's (not just in the past, but even today), would it not be appropriate to refer to them as prophets also? That is assuming that it is the revelation that God sends that qualifies a person to be a prophet, unless you also have a second qualification????

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

And that is where my original question came from. If God sent revelation to someone other than the Guru's (not just in the past, but even today), would it not be appropriate to refer to them as prophets also?

It's possible. But according to our scriptures their will not be one. Not yet anyway.