Sikhism

[AvarAllahNoor]

Lol. Could you clarify for me please the followjg, since all the posts from before have totally confused me about Sikhism. I tried to stay away from the topic seeing if it would be clearer looking at it in a weeks time but that hasn't happened.

Do you believe Muhammed was a prophet? Sorry if you feel i am repeating myself, or you will be repeating yourself, can you please just answer though, and i will ask my next question. I feel asking one question at a time would be easier as otherwise confusion will be caused

He was a prophet!

 

[Mohsin]

Ok thankyou very much for replying. So is the Qur'an the word of God. Do you believe it to be completely the word of God, 100%?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Ok thankyou very much for replying. So is the Qur'an the word of God. Do you believe it to be completely the word of God, 100%?

Well the Guru Granth Sahib says it's the word of God, so yes, it is!

 

[Mohsin]

I'm asking is it 100% the word of God. I mean us muslims believe for example the Torah of the jews was once the word of God 100%, but no longer is. Do you believe the same?
I am asking this as many things in the Qur'an contradict Sikhism doctrine

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

I'm asking is it 100% the word of God. I mean us muslims believe for example the Torah of the jews was once the word of God 100%, but no longer is. Do you believe the same?
I am asking this as many things in the Qur'an contradict Sikhism doctrine

Well it was in the times of the Gurus. But that was in the 16th century. I'm not sure if the Koran has been altered since then (apart from take a muslims word for it)

 

[Mohsin]

Well it was in the times of the Gurus. But that was in the 16th century. I'm not sure if the Koran has been altered since then (apart from take a muslims word for it)

Don't forget the Qur'an was not transmitted in written form originally, it was transmitted orally. So it is an oral revelation or recitation. It is memorised by young children as young as 8 and 9 years old every accross the whole world. Is it possible that from the 16th century all these people in different parts of the world all staring memorizing incorrectly and all of the all in the same way, because today the Qur'an we have is the same anywhere in the world. Anyway several non-muslims have testified themselves through their research that the Qur'an is unchanged

So we've estabilshed the Qur'an today is the same one as the one during the guru's time, and which again is the same as was during the Prophet PBUH's time. You've also admitted that the Qur'an is 100% the word of God since the SGGS says it is, correct?

So you admit whatever is in the Qur'an is from Allah himself. So do you accept Muhammed PBUH as the last Prophet, with no Prophet, Guru etc to come after him

[33:40] Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of Allah and the seal of all the prophets.​

The Prophet PBUH also : 'The likeness of me and the Prophets before me is that of a man who built a house which he made all complete and beautiful except for one brick in a corner. People visited and admired it but said: ‘Shouldn’t that brick be put in?’ I am that brick and I am the last of the prophets.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)

He said he is the last brick, removing any possibility that God was to send any Gurus after

So what is the Sikh position on this? You openly have said you believe the Qur'an is 100% the word of God, and yet it says no prophet or messenger is to come after him. Does this not contradict Sikhism doctrine.
I also believe Sikhs believe in reincarnation, yet the Qur'an doesn't even hint at any sych reincarnation, it only talks about every single human being facing God on the day of judgement, and being questiond about their deeds before being admitted into heaven or hell. Please explain this contradiction?

Peace

 

[unbreakable]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Sat Sri Akaal and Salam to all brothers and sisters,

If you allow me, I shall answer the questions which Moshin has asked, with all due respect.

So we've estabilshed the Qur'an today is the same one as the one during the guru's time, and which again is the same as was during the Prophet PBUH's time. You've also admitted that the Qur'an is 100% the word of God since the SGGS says it is, correct?

No. The Qu'ran according to Guru Ji is not the word of God. Belief in the Qu'ran is useless as it merits no reward for a Sikh. Belief in Waheguru is required above all and only that shall reward you.

----

So it is not established that the Qu'ran was put into one of its forms that we see today by Uthman, who was a sunni muslim. (i believe, correct me please if I am wrong)

So you admit whatever is in the Qur'an is from Allah himself. So do you accept Muhammed PBUH as the last Prophet, with no Prophet, Guru etc to come after him

That is your belief that the Qur'an is from Allah, not a Sikh belief. Muhammed being the last prophet is also your belief, not a Sikh belief.

However, you also believe in the second coming of Jesus or Iman Mahdi? or is this a myth
---

No sectarian comments; no inauthentic links - thank you.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Mahdi

So what is the Sikh position on this? You openly have said you believe the Qur'an is 100% the word of God, and yet it says no prophet or messenger is to come after him. Does this not contradict Sikhism doctrine.
I also believe Sikhs believe in reincarnation, yet the Qur'an doesn't even hint at any sych reincarnation, it only talks about every single human being facing God on the day of judgement, and being questiond about their deeds before being admitted into heaven or hell. Please explain this contradiction?

The Sikh position has been established above.


I have said this before you cannot in anyway compare the Qu'ran to Guru Ji's Gurbani.

So we must stop this time wasting act of comparing our two faiths.

Bottom line is, no matter what we say you shall never understand the way Sikhism works, never, its not your fault, is what you have been taught. i.e. Muhammed is the last prophet, after him everything is false..etc.

Guru Ji talks about how a Muslim can become a better muslim, how a hindu can become a better hindu, how one can better themselves for their own good and the good of mankind.

Let me ask, where in the Qu'ran, find me a verse that talks about salvation for a Sikh.

Please don't be offended, but its really simple, the two cannot be compared.

Muhammed is a prophet and Sikhism recognises him as Gods Beloved. But as far as the Qu'ran goes, it does not hold much weight, no offense intended.

Please read the following,

"..It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.
First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.
Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.
As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.
And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim..."

"...O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah,forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements

Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers, and consider yourself a traveler on this journey. O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord.

Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat

Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes

Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you.

Let your practice be to live the spiritual life

Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God

Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible, restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil

Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable.

Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast.

Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet's Word.

God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber.

He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth.

He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart.

He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish, who takes the Support of the Lord's Praise. ||6||

Always, at every moment, remember God, the Creator within your heart.

Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses. Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision.

You must know in your heart that everything is temporary.

Family, household and siblings are all entanglements.

Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory; only God's Gate is the permanent place.

First, is the Lord's Praise; second, contentment

third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities.

Fifth is to hold one's desires in restraint. These are the five most sublime daily prayers.

Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere

Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry


Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer; be a good child of God - let this be your trumpet.

Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.

Wash away pollution with the river of your heart.

One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell.

Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride

Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight

Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head.

To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted and wash away pollution from within the heart

He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin

One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord is the manliest man among men

He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave, who is blessed with God's Grace

The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy

The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable

Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. .."

These are just some of Guru Ji's views if you may, explainations of what a Muslim is. Total submission to the creator. Emphasis on Allah and nothing else but Allah/Waheguru.

Now, if you want to start comparing, not that its going to do you or me any good, go ahead. But if you want learn something about a faith you don't know much about, then you are welcome, infact you can come to my house and we sit and talk and sing the praise of Allah all day.

So, please my brothers and sister, even though I am not considered a brother, but I say once again, lets stop this now and start to work together.

If you want, you can email me on [email protected]

Sat Sri Akaaal

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

 

[chacha_jalebi]

salaam

kidda unbreakable

what you gota understand is that, guru nanak ji wrote them words during his time, he hadnt seen the real muslims, he writes down the criteria for calling yourselfs muslims & all the criteria fits RasoolAllah (saw) and the sahaba, so you cant argue, and i agree we should stop comparing because no - one will accept each overs view, like it says in Quran, "there hearts have been sealed" and " for me is your religion and for you is yours"....

 

[jss]

Don't forget the Qur'an was not transmitted in written form originally, it was transmitted orally. So it is an oral revelation or recitation. It is memorised by young children as young as 8 and 9 years old every accross the whole world. Is it possible that from the 16th century all these people in different parts of the world all staring memorizing incorrectly and all of the all in the same way, because today the Qur'an we have is the same anywhere in the world. Anyway several non-muslims have testified themselves through their research that the Qur'an is unchanged

So we've estabilshed the Qur'an today is the same one as the one during the guru's time, and which again is the same as was during the Prophet PBUH's time. You've also admitted that the Qur'an is 100% the word of God since the SGGS says it is, correct?

So you admit whatever is in the Qur'an is from Allah himself. So do you accept Muhammed PBUH as the last Prophet, with no Prophet, Guru etc to come after him

[33:40] Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of Allah and the seal of all the prophets.​

The Prophet PBUH also : 'The likeness of me and the Prophets before me is that of a man who built a house which he made all complete and beautiful except for one brick in a corner. People visited and admired it but said: ‘Shouldn’t that brick be put in?’ I am that brick and I am the last of the prophets.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)

He said he is the last brick, removing any possibility that God was to send any Gurus after

So what is the Sikh position on this? You openly have said you believe the Qur'an is 100% the word of God, and yet it says no prophet or messenger is to come after him. Does this not contradict Sikhism doctrine.
I also believe Sikhs believe in reincarnation, yet the Qur'an doesn't even hint at any sych reincarnation, it only talks about every single human being facing God on the day of judgement, and being questiond about their deeds before being admitted into heaven or hell. Please explain this contradiction?

Peace

Why are you knitpicking on points and basing your opinions on what AwalAllahNoorUpaeya says. That is their interpretation of Sikhi as you have your interpretation of Islam and a member of Hezbollah has theirs. Peoples interpretations vary, but it is the scriptures of the faith that are set in stone.
I agree with unbreakable, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not say it is the 100% word of God (as you ask) but only to contemplate, along with the puraanas (Hindu scriptures). We all in our daily lives contemplate different things but it doesn't mean that we blindly follow them. Lets look at what Gurbani says about Truth and what people do.

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
सलोक मः १ ॥
salok mehlaa 1.
Shalok, First Mehl:


ਨਾ ਸਤਿ ਦੁਖੀਆ ਨਾ ਸਤਿ ਸੁਖੀਆ ਨਾ ਸਤਿ ਪਾਣੀ ਜੰਤ ਫਿਰਹਿ ॥
ना सति दुखीआ ना सति सुखीआ ना सति पाणी जंत फिरहि ॥
naa sat dukhee-aa naa sat sukhee-aa naa sat paanee jant fireh.
There is no Truth in suffering, there is no Truth in comfort. There is no Truth in wandering like animals through the water.


ਨਾ ਸਤਿ ਮੂੰਡ ਮੁਡਾਈ ਕੇਸੀ ਨਾ ਸਤਿ ਪੜਿਆ ਦੇਸ ਫਿਰਹਿ ॥
ना सति मूंड मुडाई केसी ना सति पड़िआ देस फिरहि ॥
naa sat moond mudaa-ee kaysee naa sat parhi-aa days fireh.
There is no Truth in shaving one's head; there is no Truth is studying the scriptures or wandering in foreign lands.


ਨਾ ਸਤਿ ਰੁਖੀ ਬਿਰਖੀ ਪਥਰ ਆਪੁ ਤਛਾਵਹਿ ਦੁਖ ਸਹਹਿ ॥
ना सति रुखी बिरखी पथर आपु तछावहि दुख सहहि ॥
naa sat rukhee birkhee pathar aap tachhaaveh dukh saheh.
There is no Truth in trees, plants or stones, in mutilating oneself or suffering in pain.


ਨਾ ਸਤਿ ਹਸਤੀ ਬਧੇ ਸੰਗਲ ਨਾ ਸਤਿ ਗਾਈ ਘਾਹੁ ਚਰਹਿ ॥
ना सति हसती बधे संगल ना सति गाई घाहु चरहि ॥
naa sat hastee baDhay sangal naa sat gaa-ee ghaahu chareh.
There is no Truth in binding elephants in chains; there is no Truth in grazing cows.


ਜਿਸੁ ਹਥਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਦੇਵੈ ਜੇ ਸੋਈ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦੇਇ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਇ ਮਿਲੈ ॥
जिसु हथि सिधि देवै जे सोई जिस नो देइ तिसु आइ मिलै ॥
jis hath siDh dayvai jay so-ee jis no day-ay tis aa-ay milai.
He alone grants it, whose hands hold spritual perfection; he alone receives it, unto whom it is given.


ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾ ਕਉ ਮਿਲੈ ਵਡਾਈ ਜਿਸੁ ਘਟ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਰਵੈ ॥
नानक ता कउ मिलै वडाई जिसु घट भीतरि सबदु रवै ॥
naanak taa ka-o milai vadaa-ee jis ghat bheetar sabad ravai.
O Nanak, he alone is blessed with glorious greatness, whose heart is filled with the Word of the Shabad.


ਸਭਿ ਘਟ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਉ ਸਭਨਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਖੁਆਈ ਤਿਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਕਹੈ ॥
सभि घट मेरे हउ सभना अंदरि जिसहि खुआई तिसु कउणु कहै ॥
sabh ghat mayray ha-o sabhnaa andar jisahi khu-aa-ee tis ka-un kahai.
God says, all hearts are mine, and I am in all hearts. Who can explain this to one who is confused?


ਜਿਸਹਿ ਦਿਖਾਲਾ ਵਾਟੜੀ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਭੁਲਾਵੈ ਕਉਣੁ ॥
जिसहि दिखाला वाटड़ी तिसहि भुलावै कउणु ॥
jisahi dikhaalaa vaatrhee tiseh bhulaavai ka-un.
Who can confuse that being, unto whom I have shown the Way?


ਜਿਸਹਿ ਭੁਲਾਈ ਪੰਧ ਸਿਰਿ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ਕਉਣੁ ॥੧॥
जिसहि भुलाई पंध सिरि तिसहि दिखावै कउणु ॥१॥
jisahi bhulaa-ee panDh sir tiseh dikhaavai ka-un. ||1||
And who can show the Path to that being whom I have confused since the beginning of time? ||1||

Contemplate the last line.

As for SatGuru and prophet-they are not on the same levels as dhur ki bani states that mukhti (liberation) can only be achieved by the True Guru.

Here are extracts from a gupt site about Sikhi


"Sikhs are often asked, for the sake of argument, if Guru Nanak was a Prophet. Sikhs do not need to entertain the question whether the Guru Nanak was a Prophet. Guru Nanak and the other nine Sikh Gurus were not "prophets" in the Semitic sense. For instance, they never tried to impress people by performing miracles or by making predictions. They did not put their own people on a high pedestal in their holy book. Their teaching does not revolve around some small nation, its history, or its future. They did not scare people with a fear of an everlasting hell, or lure them with reward of a heaven."

"SGGS over and over stresses the importance of "Gurmat Naam". Without Gurmat Naam no one can find Akaal or reach sachkhand. Gurmat naam is only available in the house of Guru Nanak: "Nanak kai ghar keval, naam" . Keval means "only".

Without naam, no one can find God. GurbaaNee is clear about this fact:

Nanak naam binaa ko mukath n hoee
Translation:O Nanak, without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, no one is liberated

Where is this naam to be found? From the Guru.

bin gur naam n paaeiaa jaae
Translation:Without the Guru, the Naam cannot be obtained.

Satguru Nanak is the only true Guru who has preached naam, and given gurmat-naam.

As for other acts of "religion", this is what Guru Nanak says:

theeruthh thup dhaeiaa dhuth dhaan ||
Pilgrimages, austere discipline, compassion and charity

jae ko paavai thil kaa maan ||
these, by themselves, bring only an iota of merit.

suniaa muniaa man keethaa bhaao ||
Listening and believing with love and humility in your mind,

athurugath theerathh mal naao ||
cleanse yourself with the Name, at the sacred shrine deep within.......

So, unless someone receives Gurmat Naam from Guru Nanak, there is no liberation. They will be rewarded for their good karma, but not liberated. They don't want liberation! Christians are content with heaven, and they will receive it. But then they will enter the cycle of births and deaths again, hopefully in a life which will bring them closer to liberation. Gurmat Panth's respect of all religions goes as far as saying that they are not sent to eternal hell, they will get what they work for. Like Harmandir Saahib: God is open and available to all directions and all people of the world, but the path to God is ONE: Gurmat.

About other faiths:
eik jainee oujhurr paae dhhuruhu khuaaeiaa ||
Some are Jains, wasting their time in the wilderness; by their pre-ordained destiny, they are ruined. panna 1285

hidhoo anhaa thurukoo kaanaa ||
The Hindu is blind; the Muslim has only one eye. panna 875

In many other places it is made clear that Gurmat, the way of the Giani, who meditates on Gurmat Naam is the only path to Akaal. Others will get their heaven etc. but not find Akaal.

All faiths will get what they work towards. Only Gurmat has a concept such as Sach Khand and God-Realisation in such a clear way. Thus, Gurmat is the only path to Sach Khand and merger with Akaal.

Who else is the true Guru of status of Guru Nanak? Mohammad? Jesus? Krishna? Rama? There is none. These prophets don't come close to even the Sikhs of Guru Nanak, let alone Guru Nanak himself. GurbaaNee leaves no doubt: "Sabh tay Vadaa Satgur Nanak, Jin kal raakhee mayree" meaning Satuguru Nanak is THE GREATEST who has protected my honour in this age of darkness (Kaljug)."





As chacha jalebi similarly says- your faith is beautiful to you and ours is to us.


bhul chuk maaf

 

[Mohsin]

Ok JSS and unbreakable, how about you two answer my remianing questions then.

So what is your position of Prophet Muhammed PBUH. i find this very difficult to understand. did he receive revelation then from God? Ie was he a messenger? Or was he according to you a liar, ie he must have been lieing that he claimed to be given revelation from God, like how us muslims believe Guru nanek to be lieing if he claimed to have received revelation from god. Please clarify Sikh doctrine

 

[unbreakable]

salaam

kidda unbreakable

what you gota understand is that, guru nanak ji wrote them words during his time, he hadnt seen the real muslims, he writes down the criteria for calling yourselfs muslims & all the criteria fits RasoolAllah (saw) and the sahaba, so you cant argue, and i agree we should stop comparing because no - one will accept each overs view, like it says in Quran, "there hearts have been sealed" and " for me is your religion and for you is yours"....

Chacha jalebi :heated: I believe its best you stick to your jalebi's. Your statement has no truth, no fact, infact it is a waste of time. Please think with that brain Allah has given you before posting, backed by proof. I am not talking about what you talk about with your friends, uncles, so called scholars of comparative religions (dr zakir naik) or the iman at your local mosque.

So think and read my post it no way says anything vulgar towards a Muslim. Think about it, go on, it might do you some good.

History is witness that the Sikhs are extremely understanding and tolerent of other faiths. This is not the case with Muslims. i.e. destorying of the buddhist idols in Afghanistan. The Sikhs throughout history and even recently have rebuilt mosques.

So be on your way and come back when you want to learn and talk about Allah.
Moderator's comment: If you have a problem take it up with one of the mod's. If you want to post on this forum you have to follow the rules.

Questioning/protesting rules, or moderator's action, in public 20% warning
Oppose rule or show disrespect to an LI official 20% warning


Wikipedia's section on Islam is as acruate as it gets, they invite you to edit it, so go on, if you think you know the truth, go, sign up and correct it. Otherwise just sit back and do your jobs properly.:giggling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Waheguru.

 

[Fishman]

For the :brother: Mods, HOW DARE YOU modify my post, edit it and remove the links. You call yourself tolerant, whats up, afraid your brothers and sisters might learn the truth. If you have any faith in Allah then restore my post to its original state or do what you normally do and BAN ME


Waheguru.

What's wrong with deleting inacurate information? Orthodox Islam believes in the Mahdi and the second coming of Isa (pbuh). Any site that denies this is obviously not orthodox. If there is a sect which denies the Mahdi or Isa's (pbuh) second coming, that doen't mean that Islamic belief in these things is a myth.

Also, you raised a point about Sikhs being kind to Muslims historically. Whilst this is good, this does not count as evidence for whether Sikhism is true or not.

 

[Mohsin]

For the Mods, HOW DARE YOU modify my post, edit it and remove the links. You call yourself tolerant, whats up, afraid your brothers and sisters might learn the truth. If you have any faith in Allah then restore my post to its original state or do what you normally do and BAN ME

What are you afraid of? Afraid you might learn something about your history?

I'm guesing you psoted unauthentic sites from anti-islamists. You said the Qur'an was written by Uthman, and immediately we are not going to take you seriously, because clearly you are just reading blindly from anti-islamists. If you yourself had used your own logic and brain, you wouyld have seen how it is impossible and illogical for Uthamn to have changed the Qur'an. As i expalined previously the Qur'an was originally transmitted orally, and people would memorize the Qur'an. People before Uthamns time would have gone to different parts of the world and spread the tecahings of Islam and other people there would have learnt the Qur'an by heart. Yet even after Uthamns time every single place in the world the Qur'an is still exactly the same!
Also, ask yourself don't you think there would have been uproar by people if Uthman were to have changed the Qur'an??

:uhwhat It gets quite depressing and sad when people make such baseless claims without using their own brains and isntead just copy and pasting ideas from anti islamic sites

 

[unbreakable]

Ok JSS and unbreakable, how about you two answer my remianing questions then.

So what is your position of Prophet Muhammed PBUH. i find this very difficult to understand. did he receive revelation then from God? Ie was he a messenger? Or was he according to you a liar, ie he must have been lieing that he claimed to be given revelation from God, like how us muslims believe Guru nanek to be lieing if he claimed to have received revelation from god. Please clarify Sikh doctrine

Moshin, you clearly have not read my posting properly, that or the mods have taken chunks out, which I find surprising.

Prophet Muhammed PBUH is regarded in Sikhism as a beloved of Waheguru.

Upon talking to Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims, they all seem to have their own versions of everything, but that is after Muhammed.

Remember all these different "schools of thought" came into their own after Muhammed PBUH, while he was here everybody was under him, but that changed as soon as he went, people got greedy for power..etc.

Sikhism is noway slanders, puts down other faiths, infact its the opposite, we are encouraged to help people be firm in their faith.

If you are a Muslim be a good muslim, if you are a hindu, be a good hindu..etc.

 

[unbreakable]

What's wrong with deleting inacurate information? Orthodox Islam believes in the Mahdi and the second coming of Isa (pbuh). Any site that denies this is obviously not orthodox. If there is a sect which denies the Mahdi or Isa's (pbuh) second coming, that doen't mean that Islamic belief in these things is a myth.

Also, you raised a point about Sikhs being kind to Muslims historically. Whilst this is good, this does not count as evidence for whether Sikhism is true or not.

That site did not deny his coming. It based a view according to Muslim belief.

Sikhs do not have to prove anything, like I said in ths beginning when this thread was started, this is a cheap way of slandering a faith, clearly that is what you are being taught.

 

[unbreakable]

I'm guesing you psoted unauthentic sites from anti-islamists. You said the Qur'an was written by Uthman, and immediately we are not going to take you seriously, because clearly you are just reading blindly from anti-islamists. If you yourself had used your own logic and brain, you wouyld have seen how it is impossible and illogical for Uthamn to have changed the Qur'an. As i expalined previously the Qur'an was originally transmitted orally, and people would memorize the Qur'an. People before Uthamns time would have gone to different parts of the world and spread the tecahings of Islam and other people there would have learnt the Qur'an by heart. Yet even after Uthamns time every single place in the world the Qur'an is still exactly the same!
Also, ask yourself don't you think there would have been uproar by people if Uthman were to have changed the Qur'an??

:uhwhat It gets quite depressing and sad when people make such baseless claims without using their own brains and isntead just copy and pasting ideas from anti islamic sites

Thank you very much. Look at what happens when I (deliberately) post information from a non-islamic site.

But its ok for Muslims here to talk filth about Sikhism without any facts whatsoever.

But again, like I said, its not your fault, its what you are taught, you only follow what you are taught.

So, again, before posting anything about Sikhism, read up information from a Sikhism related site and then pose your question, then we can move forward.

 

[Mohsin]

Moshin, you clearly have not read my posting properly, that or the mods have taken chunks out, which I find surprising.

Prophet Muhammed PBUH is regarded in Sikhism as a beloved of Waheguru.

Upon talking to Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims, they all seem to have their own versions of everything, but that is after Muhammed.

Remember all these different "schools of thought" came into their own after Muhammed PBUH, while he was here everybody was under him, but that changed as soon as he went, people got greedy for power..etc.

Sikhism is noway slanders, puts down other faiths, infact its the opposite, we are encouraged to help people be firm in their faith.

If you are a Muslim be a good muslim, if you are a hindu, be a good hindu..etc.

I asked simple questions. You answer with riddles. What does a friend of Waheguru mean.

This is what i interpret. if someone claims that God has said something, and told me i am a messenger and have to do this and so and so person who follows such and such a religion is going to hell because God has told me, now if such a person is lieing he is the worst of people, and is a disgrace to have lied in God's name. Now this is what Sikhs believe prophet Muhammed PBUh to have done, they think he is not telling the truth when he says you have to be a muslim to attain salvation, so surely if this would be true, ie that he is lieing, you would consider him to be a bad person, but yet you say he is a friend of God, someone who, in your eyes has said lies about what God has said, is a friend of God????

 

[Mohsin]

Thank you very much. Look at what happens when I (deliberately) post information from a non-islamic site.

But its ok for Muslims here to talk filth about Sikhism without any facts whatsoever.

But again, like I said, its not your fault, its what you are taught, you only follow what you are taught.

So, again, before posting anything about Sikhism, read up information from a Sikhism related site and then pose your question, then we can move forward.

Lol, thats funny, seeing as how i was getting my information from Sikhs (AvarAllahNoor or IsDhillon) then how is it my fault if i have been misinformed. Yes it would be different if i had gone to muslims and asked about Sikhism, who probably wouldn't give very fair answers, it would be unfair and hypocritical of me, and yet it is exactly what you have done. Have you before this asked any muslim site on this forum about if uthman wrote the qur'an himself?

 

[unbreakable]

I asked simple questions. You answer with riddles. What does a friend of Waheguru mean.

This is what i interpret. if someone claims that God has said something, and told me i am a messenger and have to do this and so and so person who follows such and such a religion is going to hell because God has told me, now if such a person is lieing he is the worst of people, and is a disgrace to have lied in God's name. Now this is what Sikhs believe prophet Muhammed PBUh to have done, they think he is not telling the truth when he says you have to be a muslim to attain salvation, so surely if this would be true, ie that he is lieing, you would consider him to be a bad person, but yet you say he is a friend of God, someone who, in your eyes has said lies about what God has said, is a friend of God????

I don't know which Sikhs you have been talking to, so I cannot speak for them.

According to Sikh doctrine Muhammed is recognised as one of many prophets, messengers belonging to Waheguru. But we do not believe he was the last.

But according to Islam he is. That is your belief and we respect you for your belief, but that doesn't mean we shall agree and start practising Islam?

I suggest that you stop listening to people who have no clue and concentrate on your faith.

Again, Moshin, stop comparing, its not going to help you or me. Learn to accept that there are many paths to Allah apart from Islam.

 

[unbreakable]

Lol, thats funny, seeing as how i was getting my information from Sikhs (AvarAllahNoor or IsDhillon) then how is it my fault if i have been misinformed. Yes it would be different if i had gone to muslims and asked about Sikhism, who probably wouldn't give very fair answers, it would be unfair and hypocritical of me, and yet it is exactly what you have done. Have you before this asked any muslim site on this forum about if uthman wrote the qur'an himself?

You see difference between you and me I don't need to put down anothers faith, create doubt and confusion in order to convert them, so that I can re-afirm my own beliefs.

I don't want to know about Islam, to me personally its a waste of my time, as it would be to a Muslim.