Sikhism

[unbreakable]

I don't understand how you can acknowledge him as a prophet if he contradicts sikh doctrine. How can you respect him if he teaches different things about God, which in sikh eyes is untrue about God?

We respect him. Thats all. I respect you for your views, but I do not believe in them.

We have never been told to believe in Mohammed.

He claims that he is the last prophet, that is a lie, he is lying, if you want to put it that bluntly.

Feel free. It will probably be better to start a new thread with any questions you have. Or maybe you can continue here

I believe it would be best to agree to disagree.

As far as I am concerned, this topic is over.

 

[unbreakable]

well now, I am finding my self only able to believe in the worth of Guru Nanak (Dev Ji). Could it be that he received in Prayer that it was permitted for him to present himself as an adequate alternative to Mohammed to profess Faith within the teaching of, and because he himself is a believer in Qur'an. But that he lived at a time in which there were disputes between the Religious tradtions existant in India shows that in Allah he could have been accepting upon his own self the comprehension that it was more important at that time for Peace to exist, than that a perfect form of Islam be adhered to. So therefore we can all accept, that if indeed, as the case seems to quite obviously evidence, Guru Nanak is of Mujahideen, then we can also assume that he under took a huge burden of responsibility in having accepted to his own account that of not fully adhereing to Islam, but in the cause of Peace. Perhaps it was that at that time in India there could not have been a definitive victory of Islam over other Hindi religious worship. But surely what is important in this whole context is that all worship in India is clearly effected positively by the fact that Islam has been the dominant Religion in India. My belief is that hearing recitation of Qur'an and reading, can make a positive impact upon the future genetics. And so long as a persons sustains belief in One God, that such a positive impact is a part of the miracle of Qur'an. If one man choses not to accord his behaviour to every available teaching of Mohammed, but sustains Faith in One God, and Faith in Qur'an, then what business it is of another man to fault him. But perhaps in that very interest of Peace, we can never know whether Guru Nanak is in fact a true follower of Mohammed. And we can know that the more closely we follow the exact teaching of Mohammed, the less sever our penalty will be through the visit in the fires of Hell before attaining Jannah.

Thankyou for those website links. (from a quick look at it is clear that Guru Nanak was able to inspire persons with the same feeling of Allah's Grace as had Mohammed been)

Sorry Sister.

You have a good command over the english language.
But I disagree with your views.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji a follower of Waheguru/Allah.

 

[unbreakable]

There was a connection in the literature I had to a large water project. It has a story about a boy whom made a decision to carry water for his family all by himself back from the well. Then he went on the cause that a large region in India received clean drinking water in his adult life. He is Sikh, but I can not remember where he was based, only that it was in a part of India.

It would be helpful if you had more details to go on.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

There was a connection in the literature I had to a large water project. It has a story about a boy whom made a decision to carry water for his family all by himself back from the well. Then he went on the cause that a large region in India received clean drinking water in his adult life. He is Sikh, but I can not remember where he was based, only that it was in a part of India.

Not sure what you're getting at sis?

 

[Mohsin]

We have never been told to believe in Mohammed.

He claims that he is the last prophet, that is a lie, he is lying, if you want to put it that bluntly.

Thankyou very much. Finally, after 5 weeks someone finally decides to give a clear answer. its all I've been asking for. Ok thats fair enough if you believe he was a liar

I hope AvarAllahNoor is reading, he's the one that told me sikhs believe Muhammed PBUH is a messenger of God. So i guess he's a liar aswell then!

 

[Mohsin]

I jus want to clarify then Unbreakable, do you believe Muhammed PBUh ever received revelation, or did he receive it and then disobeyed God?

PS With all due respect to AvarAllahNoor, i would prefer it if Unbreakable would answer, as you have on a couple of occasions given me wrong information and led me to waste my time barking up the wrong tree for a whole month asking you questions qhich you repeatedly ignored. On several occasions you have been exposed as a liar here

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Thankyou very much. Finally, after 5 weeks someone finally decides to give a clear answer. its all I've been asking for. Ok thats fair enough if you believe he was a liar

I hope AvarAllahNoor is reading, he's the one that told me sikhs believe Muhammed PBUH is a messenger of God. So i guess he's a liar aswell then!

Sikhism isn't supposed to be about 'my religion is right and yours is wrong kind of thing! But when put in such a postion it's fair to say that stand has to be taken. I never said Mohammed was a Sikh prophet, did i? He's a muslim prophet and he's respected by Sikhs that is all!

As i've said the Kuran had to ahve been changed, as the claim that he is the ONLY last prophet makes him egotistical!

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

PS With all due respect to AvarAllahNoor, i would prefer it if Unbreakable would answer, as you have on a couple of occasions given me wrong information and led me to waste my time barking up the wrong tree for a whole month asking you questions qhich you repeatedly ignored. On several occasions you have been exposed as a liar here

Well that's your opinion, and proof of these post would be beneficial. some people have different version of Sikhism, just as muslims do of Islam!

 

[Mohsin]

Well that's your opinion, and proof of these post would be beneficial

As you wish

Unbreakable has told me that;

1) According to Sikhism, Muhammed PBUH is not a Prophet

and

2) He has also told me according to Sikhism the Qur'an is not the word of God

The above two statements are also similar to what IS Dhillon also said

Lets see what you said

I asked here the following

Do you believe Muhammed was a prophet? Sorry if you feel i am repeating myself, or you will be repeating yourself, can you please just answer though, and i will ask my next question. I feel asking one question at a time would be easier as otherwise confusion will be caused

In which in the very next post here you replied

He was a prophet!

No mention of anything about respect, you said he was a prophet, not that you respect him, in clear words you said he is a prophet, and if you read the rest of the thread from there onwards you'll see how i based the rest of my questions to understand sikhism on those premises, so basically i was wasting my time because i was given false information

My next question here

Ok thankyou very much for replying. So is the Qur'an the word of God. Do you believe it to be completely the word of God, 100%?

You replied here

Well the Guru Granth Sahib says it's the word of God, so yes, it is!

:? Now you see my confusion, you say one thing, which is absolutely illogical, and say Sikhism says it. Not only are you doing injustice to yourself, but also to your religion, and also other sikhs who try to spread its true message, like people like Dhillon or Unbreakable. If you don't know, just simply say so, no need to act like you know


Now I know of several other times you have been exposed badly. I shall give you one example

You made a blatant outrageous pathetic lie here about what it says in the Qur'an, claiming it said prophets will come after Prophet Muhammed pbuh here

Fact is the Kuran speaks of many messengers to have come before Mohammed and many more to come after. It's the Kuran that states this not me. If you don't believe what the Kuran says then you're not following Islam!

I couldn't believe my eyes, basically might AvarAllahNoor had read a passage in the Qur'an that billions of muslims over the last 1400 years had over looked

I replied here

Not once, this is an outrageous lie. Not once does it suggest another Prophet is to come after this. Proove it, and don't cop out of this one, i have been followng the whole thread and not once did you bring any apparent verses showing Allah said more Prophets are to come. I can't believe you have stooped to making such disgraceful lies. Bring me an ayyah that even suggests it, PLEASE!

And you repeatedly ignored it again and again when i kept asking you

HERE

and HERE

and finally here

So this is my 5th time of asking you! Subhanallah, you have kept avoiding it, just admit to your error and remember in future before you talk about your religion also

some people have different version of Sikhism, just as muslims do of Islam

Not really, In islam it's mainly Sunni's and shia' muslims. The rest are minor differences, but the main belief about oprophet Muhammed PBUH, salvation, purpose of life is the same

I look forward to your reply, and hope this time you have the guts to reply

 

[Mohsin]

. I never said Mohammed was a Sikh prophet, did i? He's a muslim prophet and he's respected by Sikhs that is all!

See my above post where you comically contradict yourself

As i've said the Kuran had to ahve been changed

Look here at what you said here

Well it was in the times of the Gurus. But that was in the 16th century. I'm not sure if the Koran has been altered since then (apart from take a muslims word for it)

We still have Qur'ans from the Uthamanic Caliphate in the 7th century which is exacly the same as today, so if it was ok in the 16th century, then it definitely is ok today. Furthermore I have provided you with clear proofs that it is unchanged, and also statements from non-muslim historians testifying to its authenticity! You continually ignore these proofs. It seems you are clinging on to this weak idea simply because it is the only way in which your religion according to you won't contradict itself

 

[unbreakable]

Thankyou very much. Finally, after 5 weeks someone finally decides to give a clear answer. its all I've been asking for. Ok thats fair enough if you believe he was a liar

I hope AvarAllahNoor is reading, he's the one that told me sikhs believe Muhammed PBUH is a messenger of God. So i guess he's a liar aswell then!

Moshin, my Muslim Brother,


Forgive me, but I should not have said Mohammed is a liar, for that is insulting him and Islam, that is wrong and really bad for a Sikh to say anything bad about other followers of Waheguru, and my temper got the better of me, I simply could not understand why you failing to understand again and again and again

OKAY, here I go again.


Mohammed is indeed the last prophet. But not for the Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists..etc.

He is the last prophet only for the Muslims, Jews and Christians.

OK. He is not the last prophet for the Sikhs, but only for the Muslims.

He is the last prophet for the Muslims ONLY and not the Sikhs or Hindus..etc.

You cannot compare Islam to Sikhism, or Hinduism, like a sister was doing here with her overstated use of english. Islam has nothing to do with the Vedas. Get that straight. This is a FACT.

In no way shape or form does the Holy Qu'ran talk about salvation for a Sikh, for a Hindu, for a Buddhist..etc.

Please find me a verse where the Qu'ran talks about salvation for a SIKH. for a SIKH. Then you can say the Qu'ran is the word of God.

It is only in Sikhism where you can find guidance on how to live a pure way of life for every follower or every faith. This I have proved.

Hence it is now established that Guru Ji's words are truely divine and universal.

IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM does Guru Ji put any followers of any faith down. I challenge anybody here to prove that using FACTS.

Why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj have Muslims in his army fighting muslim invaders?

WHY, because the Sikhs were not fighting ISLAM, they were fighting EVIL. Sikh history is full of accounts where our Muslim brothers have sided with us.

But I digress.

No disrespect to you Moshin, you believe in Allah, so do I. We both come from the one Waheguru. You shall disagree, but this is a FACT.

I respect you for your firm faith in Islam and I encourage you to be firmer.

You shall never hear a Muslim encouraging Sikh/Hindu (unless they personally know them, depends on circumstances) to become firm in their faith, nor shall you hear a Hindu say that to a Muslim.

It is only in Sikhism where you shall find true tolerance and universality of God.

Mohammed PBUH is the last prophet for the Muslims. NOT FOR THE SIKHS.

So yes you are right, he is the last prophet, for YOU MOSHIN.

NOT FOR ME, a SIKH.

Try to understand this.


I know why you cannot understand :heated: where I am coming from, Truth can sometimes be hard to understand. it is because you are listening to Imams..etc. who are not Spiritual Teachers, they are just translators with their versions. in my opinion, you may argue this is wrong.

But Moshin I tell you this now, if you truely was following Muhammeds Islam, then you would not be fighting me Brother. Believe me you would not be here.

This shall be my last post here, if anybody wants to talk more, email me here [email protected]

Please forgive me if I have been out of line.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji Ki fateh.

I recommend that my Sikh Brothers and Sister do not post here anymore . This is not going to benefit us or our Muslim brother and sisters.

oh and forgive me for any spelling mistakes..etc..

May Waheguru/Allah bless all of you and guide you on the right path.

Waheguru.

Good Bye. :thankyou:

 

[Curaezipirid]

unbreakable: what I can not understand is why it is so important to you to be arguing this point with Muslims in a Muslim web site.

I am truly valuing what you are expressing to us, and am taking your statement of belief very seriously.

Yet who am I, or you, to be trying to fully Reconcile Sikhi with Islam. Especially when the grounds for contextually comphrending that such is possible are, in this time, suitable to not one of us. If we are not careful we will soon by trying to argue that Guru Nanak was a re-incarnation of Mohammed, and such an argument could serve no person since Jesus is the only Man to have lived truly in a full RE-incarnation. While Hindi teaching about trans-migration of the Soul righteously belongs within the Vedas that teach of Faith within that non-dualist model of comprehending God and the Universe through a sacred self of a Master, that is closer to a true Christian belief (eg from within the tradition of following John the Baptist), than it is to a Muslim belief structure.

There are altogether too many challenging matters to attempt to comprehend for most Muslim, Christians, and modern Jews, just in this post alone. So how can we expect that a Muslim could be able to conceptualise what you are teaching of Sikhi. A Muslim needs taqleed/tawheed of Islam, and until we are able to connect with a know and respected teacher within Islam, in the relating of Sikhi to Islam, it is just not possible to prove any of Sikhi to a Muslim. The argument can only, and necessarily, especially if what you say is true, disprove itself!

I am enjoying it, but that is a reflection upon my status as Jinn!

 

[afriend]

Hmmmm.....allow me to find myself a dictionary to comprehend your literature, as it is much too difficult for me to understand.

 

[Curaezipirid]

My apology for not being specific enough. I am not refering in any way to my expressions so much as the totality of the ideas I am trying to express. It is factual that Mujahideen may comprehend the interlocking pieces of different of the world's Religions and how all true Religions that promote faith in One God, come back to Qur'an, whether they teach to obey Mohammed or not. But it is truly also wrong to expect every Muslim to be able to entertain such comprehension. It is not right taqleed/tawheed.

Also, I should add about the questioning of the more previous post that I made about a water project in India: I am only trying to place the very little information that I have about Sikhi into a broader Sikh context, so as to ensure that my own comprehension is correct.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

See my above post where you comically contradict yourself


Look here at what you said here


We still have Qur'ans from the Uthamanic Caliphate in the 7th century which is exacly the same as today, so if it was ok in the 16th century, then it definitely is ok today. Furthermore I have provided you with clear proofs that it is unchanged, and also statements from non-muslim historians testifying to its authenticity! You continually ignore these proofs. It seems you are clinging on to this weak idea simply because it is the only way in which your religion according to you won't contradict itself

I'm not going to go against what Unbreakable and Dhillion have said, but everything i've said is true. I follow the Sikhism i was taught by Guru Nanak. And if the Guru Granth Sahib says the Kuran is the Word of God then it is! (personal views on the matter are IRRELEVANT MR!!) So call me a liar, but it's the truth. You seem to want to pick faults so you can then have another relgion to attack which will fit nicely into your agenda! Unbreakable has apologised for saying Mohammed was a liar, YOU find me the verse that says that and i'll own up. So saying i'm not 'true' to my religion is ludicrous!

So, if i started bashing your religion you'd not have a leg to stand on, so refrain from making ubsurd claims!

Gur Fateh!

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Also, I should add about the questioning of the more previous post that I made about a water project in India: I am only trying to place the very little information that I have about Sikhi into a broader Sikh context, so as to ensure that my own comprehension is correct.

This website will give you all the information (correct) for all you need to know!

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page Now i'm not sure what relevance a water project in India has to do with Sikhism!:?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Yet who am I, or you, to be trying to fully Reconcile Sikhi with Islam. Especially when the grounds for contextually comphrending that such is possible are, in this time, suitable to not one of us. If we are not careful we will soon by trying to argue that Guru Nanak was a re-incarnation of Mohammed, !

That's the first time ever such a statement has been made! The idea has never been entertained by a Sikh. But nice of you to compare.

As for 'Reconciling Sikhi with Islam' who is? We're not! Now this shall be the last time i shall post this here! Being a panjabi mein adat ton majboor! and can't stop! :rollseyes

With the roots of Sikhism growing out of an increasing resistance to the Mugal or Muslim rule in India during the fifteenth century, many assume that Sikhism as a religion is simply an offshoot of Islam. This being the case as well as an increased amount of ignorance it is important to discuss the Sikhism and its philosophy. Some of the Muslims try to show that the first Sikh Guru, Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Muslim. In the following paper I will systematically answer many of the misrepresentations and clarify their wrongs.

In addition to discounting the Guru Nanak Dev Ji they also say that Bhagat Kabeer Ji (a holy saint who’s writings are contained in Guru Granth Sahib Ji) was a Muslim. Muslims try to justify that Kabeer Ji was a Muslim and Guru Nanak Dev Ji was greatly influenced by Kabeer Ji which makes Guru Nanak Dev Ji a Muslim as well. I will give you some quotes specifically from Kabeer Ji’s writing as well as Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s writings so you can understand whether they were Muslim or not.

Misconceptions about Guru Nanak Dev Ji:

Guru Nanak Dev Ji preached oneness of God and He got this idea from Islam. Second reason they give is that Guru Nanak Dev Ji visited Mecca. Third reason: Guru Ji wore Islamic type of turban and fourth He carried Holy Quran with Him all the time.

Here are the answers:

1) Guru Nanak Dev Ji did preach oneness of God but this idea was not taken from Islam. It can be said that Prophet Mohammad preached the same thing and he copied this idea from Christianity so therefore Mohammad was a Christian, but Muslims would disagree. in the same way this argument does not hold true in the case of Guru Sahib because even though God is one, God’s description, His characteristics and gender are the main parts that make Sikhism a separate religion from Islam. Let me clarify.

In Islam, God is described as someone who only likes Muslims and Muslims are called the chosen people. God does not like “nonbelievers” or non-Muslims. To God women are inferior who are created to serve men. God only lives in the west or in Mecca. If you do not worship God by being a Muslim, he gets upset and you will burn in the fires of hell. Also, if you are not Muslim then you will go to hell – and it doesn’t matter if you do good things all your life.

In Sikhism, God (called Waheguru) is someone who is without hatred and fear, and is self created. God created everyone and loves you no matter what religion you belong to. God’s love is for everyone whether you worship Him or not. God’s love is like rain which falls on earth equally. God does not live in the west. He is in all directions and He is infinite. There is no limit to Him and His creation. God is all pervading. He resides in everybody’s heart. He is not sitting in heaven or living in Mecca but He is ever close to you. Guru Nanak Dev Ji says:

I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, page 1136)

This shows that Guru Ji never accepted teachings of Islam and Hinduism. There are many names of God and Sikhs accept that. This is why Guru Ji used both names saying that He is not taking any sides. He is teaching to unite humanity together literally under ONE GOD.

2) Now the next answer about going to Mecca. Actually this ties the third and the fourth question together. Muslims have totally manipulated the reason why Guru Ji visited Mecca. Muslims go to Mecca to pay their homage and worship God (this pilgrimage is called Hajj in the Islamic faith), but this was not the purpose of Guru Ji to go there. Guru Ji says:

I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2|| I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers. I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, page 1136)

This shows that Guru Ji did not visit Mecca to worship Allah. Instead, He went for different reasons. Muslims believe that God is in the west and only likes Muslims. Guru Ji visited Mecca to clear their doubts and to show them the right path. He went to preach oneness of God who does not reside only in the west. Guru Ji said there are infinity heavens, hells and solar systems. There is no end to God or His creation.


Bhai Gurdas Ji (a much respected Sikh), depicts these incidents in one of His books which shows that Guru Ji got into Mecca and preached the truth.

Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca. He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his armpit, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress. Now he sat in a mosque where the pilgrims (hajis) had gathered. When Baba (Nanak) slept in the night spreading his legs towards the alcove of mosque at Kaba, the qazi named Jivan kicked him and asked who was this infidel enacting blasphemy. Why this sinner is sleeping his legs spread towards God, Khuda. Catching hold of the legs he lynched (Baba Nanak) and lo and behold the miracle, the whole of Mecca seemed to be revolving. All got surprised and they all bowed. (Bhai Gurdas Ji, Var 1, page 1)

Qazi and maulvis got together and began discussing religion. A great fantasy has been created and no one could understand its mystery. They asked Baba Nanak to open and search in his book whether Hindu is great or the Muslim. Baba replied to the pilgrim hajis that, without good deeds both will have to weep and wail. Only by being a Hindu or a Muslim one can not get accepted in the court of the Lord. (Bhai Gurdas Ji, Var 1, page 1)

Guru Ji preached the truth and by listening to Him Muslims treated Him as their Pir (Holy Saint). Muslims believed God spoke through Guru Nanak Dev Ji. When he was about to leave, Muslims asked Him to leave something of His behind. So he left his slippers which the priest kept inside Mecca that time. When the priest retired he took it with him back to his home and his family still has this slipper. This is how much respect the Muslims had and have for Guru Nanak Sahib Ji.

A number of Muslims have written many articles to misrepresent Sikhism and to misguide people from the truth. They have portrayed Sikhism as a sect of Islam and Guru Nanak Dev Ji as a Muslim.

“...he dressed like a Muslim and had all the insignia of a Muslim faqir on him. He passed his days with Muslim pirs and saints and ate and drank with them. It was a Muslim sufi he constantly turned to for advice…”

There is nowhere in the history it is found that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had any marks of Muslims nor he ever dressed like a Muslim except when he visited Mecca and I have already stated the purpose of that.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji met Hindu and Muslim saints alike and only preached the truth. Guru Ji not only visited Muslim holy places but also almost all of the Hindu holy places and even went to Italy to meet the Pope. Furthermore, he also went to Tibet to meet Buddhists. But the sole purpose was to dispel the darkness in the minds of Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, Jainis, Buddhists and all others. No one belonging to a particular religion was special to Him. He treated everyone equally. To say that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Muslim is without foundation. Muslims are shooting blank fires in the air.

Furthermore, who was this so called “sufi” Guru Ji turned to for advice? What was his name and where did he live? From what year to what year did this council span? Where is it mentioned in history/historic texts? It is mentioned nowhere because it never happened! It was their prophet Mohammad who needed advice from angels because he was not able to do the required job all by himself. But Guru Ji completed the work given by God and after completing it He thanked only one almighty God not an incomplete prophet Mohammad.

“Traveling through Muslim countries he reached Mecca where he performed Haj (pilgrimage) and is also known to have visited the holy city of Medina.”

Completely false. Guru Ji did in fact visit Mecca, but NOT for Hajj. Guru Sahib rejects this ritualistic practice and writes about Hajj:

I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other. I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan. I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, page 1136)

This clarifies Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s position on both Hajj and on Islamic practices on the whole.

“His choicest friend during these travels was a Muslim, Sheikh Farid, in whose company he passed twelve years of his life.”

It is a known fact in the history that Farid was dead long before Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born. Sheikh Farid lived from 1173-1266 AD. Whereas Guru Ji’s coming was not until 1469 AD.

“Even his first four successors are represented in pictures as Muslims, carrying rosaries in their hands.”

This is another baseless argument for a rosary does not make any individual the follower of Islam or any other faith. The rosary is a universal symbol of faith and contemplation of God. Many Hindus among other faiths also carry rosaries; this does not make them Muslim by association either.

“Guru Nanak also married in a Muslim family. This point is very important because no respectable Muslim family would have taken Nanak as a son-in-law, unless he was known to be a Muslim. Nanak lived in a country under Muslim rule where the marriage of a Muslim woman to a non-Muslim would on no account be tolerated. This clearly indicates that Guru Nanak was accepted as a Muslim by his contemporaries.”

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was married to a woman called Sulakhanee Ji. How can she be a Muslim because Sulakhanee is not a Muslim name? Also history shows that at the wedding no Muslim priests (mullah) came for the ceremony. There were only Hindu pundits who came and wanted Guru Ji to take seven rounds around the fire which Guru Ji clearly rejected and took only four rounds around Gurbani (the Word of God). Thus, this proves not only that Guru Ji was not married into a Muslim family, but also that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had started the marriage ceremony for Sikhs which was different from Muslims and Hindus.

“The words of Guru Nanak as contained in the Guru Granth Sahib (Sikh scriptures) were not collected until the time of Guru Arjan Dev, the fifth Guru, and therefore cannot be relied upon as accurate particularly as Sikhism had by that time assumed an attitude of hostility towards Islam.”

One thing now you have noticed is that Muslims were probably going crazy when they wrote the article and just wanted to write something stupid. Guru Nanak Dev Ji wrote His own writings in a scripture and this was the same scripture he carried to Mecca which Muslims thought was Quran. But it was the scripture which included every single word of Guru Ji’s writings and this scripture was passed onto His family members. This book was then collected by the fifth Guru, Guru Arjan Dev Ji. Also, all of Gurus were the embodiment of the same Nanak. Whatever Guru Nanak Dev Ji preached and practiced was continued by the following Gurus too. The fifth Guru was the fifth form of Guru Nanak Ji and Guru Ji knew what He preached in the first form. However, Muslims show their ignorance in this part. By saying that Guru Granth Sahib’s teaching cannot be relied upon, Muslims are not only showing the disrespect but also questioning the authority of Guru Granth Sahib Ji which no Sikh would ever tolerate. They need to prove how Sikhism was hostile to Islam and in what ways? In Guru Granth Sahib Ji nothing is written against Mohammad only against the doctrine of ritualism that was prevalent at the time.

When the Muslims king Akbar came to Guru Ji to check if anything in Guru Granth Sahib Ji was written against Islam, he found nothing. He flipped the pages himself and told Guru Ji to read that page and this was the Shabad that Guru Ji read. Read it yourself and see the truth.

Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:
Some call Him, 'Raam, Raam', and some call Him, 'Khudaa-i'. Some serve Him as 'Gusain', others as 'Allaah'. ||1|| He is the Cause of causes, the Generous Lord. He showers His Grace and Mercy upon us. ||1||Pause|| Some bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, and some make the pilgrimage to Mecca.| Some perform devotional worship services, and some bow their heads in prayer. ||2|| Some read the Vedas, and some the Koran. Some wear blue robes, and some wear white. ||3|| Some call themselves Muslim, and some call themselves Hindu. Some yearn for paradise, and others long for heaven. ||4|| Says Nanak, one who realizes the Hukam of God's Will, knows the secrets of his Lord and Master. ||5||9|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, page 885)

The king was pleased by the message given by the Gurus and bowed his head at the feet of Guru Ji and left. But some fanatic Muslims wanted the fifth Guru to write good words about Mohammad which He rejected because Guru Granth Sahib Ji talks only about one God not human beings. Also, during this time Muslims and Hindus in large numbers were becoming Sikhs. Muslims wanted to put stop to this. For this Guru Ji was tortured to death. It was only after the death of the fifth Guru that Sikhs took up arms but that was only to fight oppression and injustice. Had Sikhism been hostile towards Islam, Sikhs would have destroyed Muslim temples but this did not happen. Sikhs took up arms and used their might only to protect the weak and in many cases the oppressor and aggressors were Muslim.

“The congruence of the teachings of Baba Nanak with those of the Holy Quran is so perfect that one cannot escape the conclusion that the Guru had accepted Islam as his religion.”

Not true. Guru Ji’s bani clearly show that His only Guru was God not a human being. Also the word “Guru” is not used by Muslims at all. Guru Ji taught that everyone is equal including women which directly conflicts with the teaching of Islam. Guru Ji taught that there are millions of heavens, hells, solar systems, galaxies, skies and earths but Muslims believe that there are only seven layers of sky up and down totaling fourteen. Guru Ji rejected the idea of priesthood, fasting and many other rituals practiced by Muslims. Therefore, Islam could not have been Guru Ji’s religion because he openly rejected its backward teaching.

Muslims give some quotes from Bhai Bala Ji’s Janam Sakhi to prove that Guru Nanak Dev Ji believed in Islam. Guru Ji’s writing clearly shows that He never accepted Islam. There is nothing of higher status than Guru Ji’s Bani itself. You can read yourself what Guru Ji thought of “real Kalima” and “Hajj”.

Keeping your fasts, reciting your prayers, and reading the Kalma, the Islamic creed, shall not take you to paradise. The Temple of Mecca is hidden within your mind, if you only knew it. ||2|| (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, page 480)

Guru Ji rejected Islamic beliefs and practices. Another important point to be made is that many beliefs of all major religions will be similar and in tune with one another. For instance, monotheism or the belief that there exists only one God; because Christians believe it and Muslims believe it, it does not make Christians Muslim…nor does it make Sikhs Muslim.

“In Bala's Janam Sakhi, we also read that during his pilgrimage to Mecca, Baba Nanak met Qazi Rukn-ud-Din, the Imam and had long conversations with him. It is reported that Nanak said, Rukn-ud-Din, it is written in the Book (i.e., the Quran) that those who drink wine or 'Bhang' shall be punished on the Day of Judgment.

The book Guru Ji referred to is not Quran. The book he referred to was the book of the truth which included the message He received directly from God. Bhai Gurdas Ji refers to this book in his writing.

Qazi and maulvis got together and began discussing religion. A great fantasy has been created and no one could understand its mystery. They asked Baba Nanak to open and search in his book whether Hindu is great or the Muslim. Baba replied to the pilgrim hajis that, without good deeds both will have to weep and wail. Only by being a Hindu or a Muslim one can not get accepted in the court of the Lord. (Bhai Gurdas Ji, Var 1, page 1)

Now you can clearly see that the book is referred to as “His Book” not the “Quran”. If Guru Ji told their highest priest what’s written in “the book” then it means their highest figure of authority was ignorant of this message written in Quran. Furthermore, Quran supports drinking of wine and alcohol which is largely practiced by Muslims today. Guru Nanak Dev Ji never believed in Judgment Day because everyone is judged based on their good and bad deeds right after death. Read what Guru Ji says about this.

Good deeds and bad deeds-the record is read out in the Presence of the Lord of Dharma.

According to their own actions, some are drawn closer, and some are driven farther away. (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, page 8)

But they shall come to regret their actions - they create their own karma. (Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, page 315)

“It is also reported that Baba Nanak kept fasts for a whole year at Mecca and put his fingers in his ears and gave the call to prayer. It is also related that Nanak recited the Khutba of the Prophet and became happy.”

Baseless. They are saying the same thing again and again. This question has been answered earlier. But just make a note that such a big thing happened and all historians failed to mention it in their books? This is totally wrong. Where is it reported? What book and who wrote it? Bhai Gurdas Ji never mentioned it. Bhai Mardana Ji never mentioned it. Keeping fasts and saying Khutba is out of the question. Guru Ji saw Mohammad as nothing but a mere human being.

“No Muslim disciple of Nanak is known to have given up his belief in Islamic principles nor to have acted against any Islamic injunctions regarding prayers and fasting.”

Just because they don’t know anyone does not mean it never happened. No proof is provided here, like in every other part of this article which upholds the statements made. Thousands of Muslims became disciples of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and were called Sikhs. Guru Ji baptized them all in a Sikh way and gave them strict guidelines to follow. Even today you can find many Muslims in India following the way of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. There are some people who are Muslims but follow Sikhism because of the beautiful message of the Gurus and all those people do not fast nor go to Hajj.

“Nanak's disciples were not harmed in any way let alone being stoned to death. This clearly shows that Nanak was looked upon as a Muslim sufi by his contemporaries.”

This is not true. Guru Ji or his followers were not harmed because everyone Hindus and Muslims alike respected Guru Ji. Just because you are not stoned, does not make you a Muslim. Hindus called Him their Guru and Muslims their Pir. He was dear to both. In the north he had made much influence on the majority of the community and when this movement started growing rapidly Muslim rulers decided to destroy it because large number of Muslims and Hindus were converting to Sikhism. This is why fifth Guru was tortured to death. Why else would Muslims do it if Sikhism was considered part of Islam? Clearly Muslims did not regard Sikhism as part of Islam and this is why they were always out to kill Sikhs. How Muslim Sufis looked upon Guru Ji is different than the reality. If I look upon all Muslims being terrorists does it mean it is the truth? Of course not!

They need to get one fact straight. None of the Gurus were Hindus or Muslims. Sikhism is a completely different religion. If only they took some time to study the religion and its teachings but I don’t think they would want to know the reality. They need to consider some facts about their religion and Mohammad. Read some of the facts about Islam to see if Guru Ji would really follow Mohammad’s teachings.

Muslims and Jews come from the same origin. Jews existed first and Mohammad was born into a Jewish family thus making Mohammad Jewish. At that time Buddhism was the largest religion in the Asia and Arabic countries. It is believed that Mohammad was highly influenced by Buddhism and spent much time studying Buddhism. This must make him a Buddhist.

It was Mohammad who got so scared from the visions he was having. He would get so scared that he would run back to his house and hide under the bed. His wife who was thirteen years older than him took him to his uncle. Then his uncle told Mohammad that he would become a prophet. But ironically it was the same uncle who said to Mohammad, “I rather die than have faith in you.”

Mohammad practiced polygamy. There is sufficient amount of evidence that shows that he had 13 wives. He married the 6-year-old Ayesah, the daughter of his best friend Abu Bakr and thus the prophet became the son-in-law of his best friend. The prophet then married the young daughter, Hafsa, of his another great comrade, Umar who also married the four-year-old half sister of Ayesha (the posthumous daughter of Abu Bakr). Mohammad also made his adopted son to divorce his wife, Zainab, so he could marry her. To him a woman was property of a man which is the basic belief of Islam.

Mohammad was total illiterate which shows why there are so many grammatical errors in Quran. Why are they overlooking this fact? Also he was not accepted by other communities as prophet especially Jews which is why he wrote these lines against non-believers (those that did not believe him).

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers." (5:49, Quran)

Now you tell me if greatest of all Guru Nanak Dev Ji would follow this Mohammad and his teaching? There is no way in hell. Muslims just want to attack Sikhism and misrepresent it. Just remember one thing: Sikhism is a completely independent and different religion.


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Almost everything u stated about Islam Avar are basic misconceptions

God (Allah(swt)) indeed belongs to everyone. A 'believer' is one who believes in ONE God and doesn't ascribe any partners to Him else he is called as a 'kaafir' in Arabic.
Also, we are all His creations irrespective and this is mentioned clearly in this verse: "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know each other (not that you may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you." Qur'an 49: 13, "...and Allah means no injustice to any of His creatures." (Qur'an 3 : 108).

Muslims thus cannot claim to have secured exclusive rights to paradise just because of being born as Muslims.

Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evildoers there will be no helpers. Qur'an 5: 72
The above verse does not exclude those who claim to be Muslims, recite the verses of Surah Fatihah and yet ascribe partners unto Allah and do seek HELP from the living and/or dead saints and/or individuals.

In Islam, women are inferior to men because:
*a man can marry up to 4 wives, a woman can marry only one man

*a man's share of inheritance is bigger than a woman's

*a man can marry a non-Muslim, a woman cannot

*women must wear the veil

This widely held misconception does not remotely follow from the reasons given. The first and most important observation to make about the popular question "Are men and women equal?" is that it is a badly-formed, unanswerable question. The problem which many people conveniently ignore is that "equal" is not defined. This is a very critical point: the equality must be specified with respect to some measurable property. For example, women on average are superior to men if we ask who is shorter in height than the other ("Growth and Development", Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1992). Women are also superior on average if we ask whom do children bond to deeper, mothers or fathers. Women are also superior on average if we ask who has a tendency to socialize more. On the other hand, men are superior on average if we ask who is taller in height than the other. And so on: every question can be turned around, and more importantly these are properties which are irrelevant.

What then, is the really important property which we are worried about in terms of gender equality? Naturally, from the point of view of the Qur'an and Sunnah, the obvious important property is who is dearer to Allah, men or women? This question is emphatically answered in the Qur'an (translation),

[4:124] If any do deeds of righteousness - be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Paradise, and not the least injustice will be done to them.
[33:35] For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for truthful men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.
The Qur'an and Sunnah repeat over and over again that Allah only favors one person over another based on that person's awareness, consciousness, fear, love, and hope of Allah (the Arabic word is difficult to translate: Taqwa). All other criteria are excluded: gender, ethnic group, country, ancestry, etc.

Given that Allah does not favor one gender over the other in His attention to us (and it helps to remember that Allah is neither male nor female), we can now address the differences between the genders in Islam. First, men and women are not the same as we know. The Creator states in the Qur'an (translation),

[3:36]...and the male is not like the female...
Men and women are different in their composition, and in their responsibilities under Islam. However, both are bound by obligations to one another, especially the following important one which must be understood in any discussion on men and women. From the Qur'an (translation),

[24:32] And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
In this verse, the Creator emphasizes that marriage is to be vigorously pursued by the Muslims: the state of being single is not to be maintained. With this in mind, we can begin to understand the four reasons cited above for the nonetheless erroneous conclusion.

Men and women are different in their responsibilities towards the families that they are strongly encouraged to set up. Women are not obligated to work, whereas men are obligated. The man must provide for the family, but the woman does not have to spend out of her money for it, though she gets a reward for doing so. Allah says in the Qur'an (translation),

[4:34] Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.


I know this has nothing to do with Sikhism, but its better not to leave misconceptions behind whereas people will think its correct.

 

[Mohsin]

This is what i emailed to brother unbreakable


Assalamu'alaikum

Hi Unbreakable, this is Mohsin from islamicboard.com

You have made a similar post before, and i refuted it earlier.

You asked where it says in the Qur'an about salvation for sikhs hindus etc, well it says it throughout the Qur'an. the Qur'an was sent for the whole world, not the arabs, not the muslims, not pakistanis, but it is guidance for the whole world, people who are born sikh, hindu buddhist or atheist



Also I am having real trouble understanding how a person can be the last prophet for one person, but not for another?????

Surely the same God is sending the prophets, so if God says to person X you are my last messenger sent to mankind, then it doesn't matter if you are born sikh hindu muslim christian jew, he is still the last prophet to all these people. So how can someone be the last prophet for only one set of race??

By the way you ask where does Guru nanak put down muslims, well people here have posted several verses from SGGS where Guru Nanak questions muslim values on how they kill, why they do pilgrimage etc etc


Also when you say Muslims do not encourage others to be firm in faith, well if we consider others to be on the wrong path, then why would we want them to contine doing this. Many sikhs have stopped me from doing isdlamic acts of worships, such as pilgrimage, growing my beard, having halal meat. Don't make generalistaions bro

 

[Mohsin]

I'm not going to go against what Unbreakable and Dhillion have said, but everything i've said is true. I follow the Sikhism i was taught by Guru Nanak. And if the Guru Granth Sahib says the Kuran is the Word of God then it is! (personal views on the matter are IRRELEVANT MR!!) So call me a liar, but it's the truth. You seem to want to pick faults so you can then have another relgion to attack which will fit nicely into your agenda! Unbreakable has apologised for saying Mohammed was a liar, YOU find me the verse that says that and i'll own up. So saying i'm not 'true' to my religion is ludicrous!

So, if i started bashing your religion you'd not have a leg to stand on, so refrain from making ubsurd claims!

Gur Fateh!

Intersting you again didn't reply to my post for the 5th time where i ask you to bring vforth the verses in the Qur'an where it says God says more prophets are to come after the Prophet PBUH


Anyway, I'm confused again now, if guru nanak said the Qur'an is the complete word of God, why are YOU questioning it like you did in the earlier posts saying muslims may have changed it, why are you doing that if your own religion says it isn't changed.

By the way can you find me a quote from the SGGS saying Guru nanak said Qur'an is word of God

Also, why did you not correct Unbreakable when he made that mistake and said Muhammed PBUH is a liar.

Either way, I believe, although Unbreakaable is trying to be very nice with good intentions, he is just trying to scrath the back of the muslims by saying that. I showed you clear hadith where Muhammed PBUH said no more prophets will be sent to mankind, it didn't say muslims, but it said to mankind, so Muhammed PBUH is saying he is the last prophet for everyone, jews christians muslims arabs sikhs indians hindus atheists everyone. If sikhi says otherwsie it must be saying indirectly muhammed is a liar whether you like it or not