Silence, acceptance and approval

[MTAFFI]

Who are we to tell how palestinians or iraqis how they should be fighting? If we are so righteous as to judge them, then we should be there fighting with them, as long as we sit in our comfortable chairs, we should really shut up, we don't know what is it like when you wake up in the morning and your home is buldozed to the ground and you have no idea how are you gonna survive, or when you loved ones being taken away and tortured, we can only imagine.
Here is an idea - why don't all of ya righteous ones go fight in iraq or palestine, go face world sole superpower and see how it's like and then come back and rant if you'll be alive and mentally well(unlikely).

Why is it that I should go and fight to know what is right and wrong? I can understand those who fight the US or Israel, I can understand their frustration, I understand they just want their land, but their are two problems with this. One, in Iraq, the majority of the people being killed are not the US or US allies, they are innocent civilians, this is not Islamic, as far as I know. They are killing women children and the elderly and again this is not islamic. Even if it were Islamic, it still wouldnt be right and that is why I started this thread. Two, the palestinians and the Israelis are both in the wrong, I wouldnt fight on either side, because they are both heartless and to me disgusting right now. Neither side wants to give and both sides harbor more hate for one another than probably anywhere else in the world. Also I am not judging anyone I am just gathering information for my own reasons, as to what would need to take place to end the violence in these troubled areas of the world. You speak of torture and this and that, do you not think it goes both ways? Try to take a look on the other side of the road sometime

You come in here with your condesending tone and your comments about going to fight, you are part of the reason the world is as it is today. Instead of telling everyone how righteous they are and telling how no one understands, why dont you try and come up with something constructive like how to stop the fighting rather than going and furthering it along? I would be willing to bet that most of the people that have responded on this thread have a far better understanding of the world around them than you do

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

Why is it that I should go and fight to know what is right and wrong?

Where did I say that you should go and fight? I was referring to muslims, not you.

I can understand those who fight the US or Israel, I can understand their frustration, I understand they just want their land, but their are two problems with this. One, in Iraq, the majority of the people being killed are not the US or US allies, they are innocent civilians, this is not Islamic, as far as I know. They are killing women children and the elderly and again this is not islamic. Even if it were Islamic, it still wouldnt be right and that is why I started this thread.

I'm talking about people fighting occupation, not the ones killing each other, I think that's stupid, there's an invading army and they kill each other, even more stupid is suicide bombing in Iraq, you can bomb something almost as efficient as if you killed yourself, but you will live and can do it again, what's the point anyway? Just from combat efficiency point of view.
As if starting this thread changes anything.

 

[Muezzin]

I'm talking about people fighting occupation, not the ones killing each other, I think that's stupid, there's an invading army and they kill each other, even more stupid is suicide bombing in Iraq, you can bomb something almost as efficient as if you killed yourself, but you will live and can do it again, what's the point anyway? Just from combat efficiency point of view.

There's that, and the fact that suicide (and murder of civilians) is haraam. That's not a judgement call about Palestinians, it's just a fact - if people chose to bomb military targets, there would be nothing wrong with it. Muslims all over the world sympathise with the Palestinians, cry for them, pray for them, but because some say suicide bombing of civilians is wrong in Islam, you get offended? Are you equating condemnation of certain methods as a lack of sympathy?

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

but because some say suicide bombing of civilians is wrong in Islam, you get offended?

Don't care enough about what people type on their keyboards to get offended, never said anything specific about condoning or condemning suicide bombings on civilians, The thread is about appologizing, our non-muslim users feel we dont apologize enough for what some muslims are doing or appear to be doing.

Are you equating condemnation of certain methods as a lack of sympathy?

As if we don't know that muslims generally don't follow basics of islam, as if we dont know that killings of civilians is wrong, it's obviuos, that's not the point.
Muslims are getting killed and have to apologize? Really? Some pocket "imams" in puppet government lead countries *cough*saudi arabia*cough* suppose to tell us what to do? While they are silently at best, mostly vocally praising one of the most pathetic and un-islamic governments in islamic world(after Turkey maybe)?

I'm amazed at some muslims here who even bring those pocket "imams" up in a positive way.

 

[Keltoi]

Don't care enough about what people type on their keyboards to get offended, never said anything specific about condoning or condemning suicide bombings on civilians, The thread is about appologizing, our non-muslim users feel we dont apologize enough for what some muslims are doing or appear to be doing.



As if we don't know that muslims generally don't follow basics of islam, as if we dont know that killings of civilians is wrong, it's obviuos, that's not the point.
Muslims are getting killed and have to apologize? Really? Some pocket "imams" in puppet government lead countries *cough*saudi arabia*cough* suppose to tell us what to do? While they are silently at best, mostly vocally praising one of the most pathetic and un-islamic governments in islamic world(after Turkey maybe)?

I'm amazed at some muslims here who even bring those pocket "imams" up in a positive way.

"Pocket" Imams meaning what? That is beside the point though. The point is not that people in Muslim countries fight militaries. The right and wrong of that is a political opinion, but the real issue is the targeting of civilians, which seems to be the method of choice by the majority of these groups. I don't care if Muslims "apologize", I do care that Muslims acknowledge that these tactics do not and cannot be associated with their religion. You say it is "obvious" that they don't. It might be obvious to you, but those who commit these acts believe otherwise, and it would be foolish to suggest that they are the only ones who share that belief.

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

but because some say suicide bombing of civilians is wrong in Islam, you get offended?

Don't care enough about what people type on their keyboards to get offended, never said anything specific about condoning or condemning suicide bombings on civilians, The thread is about appologizing, our non-muslim users feel we dont apologize enough for what some muslims are doing or appear to be doing.

Are you equating condemnation of certain methods as a lack of sympathy?

As if we don't know that muslims generally don't follow basics of islam, as if we dont know that killings of civilians is wrong, it's obviuos, that's not the point.
Muslims are getting killed and have to apologize? Really? Some pocket "imams" in puppet government lead countries *cough*saudi arabia*cough* suppose to tell us what to do? While they are silently at best, mostly vocally praising one of the most pathetic and un-islamic governments in islamic world(after Turkey maybe)?

I'm amazed at some muslims here who even bring those pocket "imams" up in a positive way.

 

[MTAFFI]

Don't care enough about what people type on their keyboards to get offended, never said anything specific about condoning or condemning suicide bombings on civilians, The thread is about appologizing, our non-muslim users feel we dont apologize enough for what some muslims are doing or appear to be doing.



As if we don't know that muslims generally don't follow basics of islam, as if we dont know that killings of civilians is wrong, it's obviuos, that's not the point.
Muslims are getting killed and have to apologize? Really? Some pocket "imams" in puppet government lead countries *cough*saudi arabia*cough* suppose to tell us what to do? While they are silently at best, mostly vocally praising one of the most pathetic and un-islamic governments in islamic world(after Turkey maybe)?

I'm amazed at some muslims here who even bring those pocket "imams" up in a positive way.

If you care so little, then why did you bother to post on this thread? This thread wasnt created for apologies. Muslims dont need to apologize they need to separate themselves from these people, the people you refer to as "pocket imams" speak out for peace, whether their government is corrupt or whatever, what does it matter? Is peace not the main objective, or would you rather just live at war with the world? Call them what you want but they are right. Thank you for posting though, you are just an example of why this thread was created

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

Thank you for posting though, you are just an example of why this thread was created

You're welcome! Proud to be an example , threads like this really change a lot and bring better understanding between us, I can almost physically feel how peace feels the world, it's amazing:thumbs_up

 

[Muezzin]

You're welcome! Proud to be an example , threads like this really change a lot and bring better understanding between us, I can almost physically feel how peace feels the world, it's amazing:thumbs_up

Nothing on an Internet forum can really change the world.

People who post on them have that understanding. Discussions, attitudes or 'solutions' reached between a limited 'community' may then be disseminated in the wider (i.e. real life) community.

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

Well it's time to get rid yourself of these illusions, what we type here doesn't really change anything but a few people's opinions in the very best case(rarely happens), what usually happens is - everyone is trying to prove their own position, in the end we all will have the same position we started from.
So in other words, majority for most of us it's like a hobby, a need to express your opinion and argue a little bit, vent our anger or just rant, like me for instance.

 

[Muezzin]

Well it's time to get rid yourself of these illusions,

Illusions? Dude, you're agreeing with what I said. You'll be able to see that if you chill out for two seconds.

what we type here doesn't really change anything but a few people's opinions in the very best case(rarely happens), what usually happens is - everyone is trying to prove their own position, in the end we all will have the same position we started from.
So in other words, majority for most of us it's like a hobby, a need to express your opinion and argue a little bit, vent our anger or just rant, like me for instance.

Fair enough. But if you have nothing constructive to add to this thread, other than words to the effect of 'the internet is useless, message forums are useless, and I'm only posting because I need to vent, grr', then I suggest you stop posting on this thread as of such stuff constitutes spam, quite frankly.

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

Well I don't pretend that what I type here is actually that important, what's the difference between spam and constructiveness then? I can easily argue that about 80-90% of all posts here are purely spam.

People keep posting, it means they like it or feel the need to, but let's be real - it just what it is, people's opinion's and arguments, sometimes discussion, subtle but mostly open bashing.... anyway one more useless post from me. peace out.

 

[Keltoi]

It's called sharing views, or even communication. It is what humans do.

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

Gotta try that, thanks for pointing that out, I might become a normal human being some day!

 

[Bittersteel]

Sometimes I think many Muslims are afraid to give their honest feelings about many of the terrorist acts committed in the name of their religion because by doing so they might appear to be condoning political actions they don't agree with. Like the Iraq War.

in war people dies.death is inevitable.no it wasn't taught by me from some mUllah or any religious book,but I learnt it from an American,who felt sorry for two US Marines responsible for killing two women in a car mistaking them as insurgents;yet he had no sympathy for the two women(his words directly).
If an insurgent beheads a US serviceman I wouldn't care.and that includes western reporters too(yes I am kind of racist).

Gen Bargewell said statements taken from those involved suggested the marines thought "Iraqi civilian lives are not as important as US lives, their deaths are just the cost of doing business, and that the marines need to get 'the job done' no matter what it takes".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6579511.stm