Somali Islamists Flee Kismayo

[AHMED_GUREY]

Your analogy is irrelevant. There are bad drugs available in western society like a cigarette.

you fail to process my analogy,listen in Somalia there is no such thing as cocaine and heroine but in the west there is and these hard drugs are shunned up on by traditional western families that have morals and values because they have a negative side effect, no sane western mother would allow her daughter or son to be sucked into something as negative as hard drugs even if the Government gave those young kids the choice to engage in it these parents would not sit back,this feeling these western families would have if it was made legal is equivalant to the feelings Somali families and community elders have today in Somalia when X-rated movies are shown AK-47 are sold at low prices and other negative things are being done in their communities, you need to understand this is the worst thing that can happen to a religious community and has the same negative effect as hard drugs would have in a western community, for a decade this non-islamic lifestyle destroyed families,women,children,elders etc etc and therefore your advice of them just sitting back and let more of their kids be sucked in is illogical

There is also I must point out a huge difference between drugs and religion. So the comparison you make cannot really be taken seriously.

"O You who believe, intoxicants, gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them , that you may succeed." Qur’an (5:90)

They ask you about intoxicants and gambling: say, "In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for the people, ( alcohol in medicine for example, cocaine in anesthesia and pain medications) But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit. ........" Qur’an (2:219)

but again you fail to process my point this about the values of a community who want the best for their children but they are being hi-jacked by the so-called representing Powers and all the things that are shunned upon are being allowed in disguise of something else wich you call ''freedom'' or ''democracy''

Are you really making the comparison between drugs in the western world being the same as free thought in the Islamic world?

again you fail to process my point this about the values of a community who want the best for their children but they are being hi-jacked by the so-called representing Powers and all the things that are shunned upon are being allowed in disguise of something else wich you call ''freedom''

 

[Abu Zakariya]

People seem to forget what state Somalia was in before the ICU got control over the country.
They say that the ICU "terrified" them into submission, but they don't mention that what this actually means is that crime went down and people were safe again (they terrified the criminals and bandits). Also, the airport was opened again (after having been closed for a decade) as well as the docks so people could do their business with the ships.
Take a look at this article (from the BBC):
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-affairs/31571-shariah-somalia.html

And some of the arguments here are ridiculous:

Are you really making the comparison between drugs in the western world being the same as free thought in the Islamic world?

The drugs were forbidden by the ICU, nobody said anything about forbidding free thought. In fact (from the article):

Questions then flowed thick and fast from other women.

"Will you allow women to work in the media? Are you the Taleban?"

A known moderate, Mr Ahmed sought to allay their fears: the Islamists, he said, did not want to stop women working.

"Actually, I am happy a woman is asking this question - at a university campus," he said.

How somebody can turn a ban on drugs into a ban on free thought is beyond me.
By the way, as a Jew, how do you feel about ban on free thought in Israel? Is it allowed to deny the Holocaust there?

 

[rav]

How somebody can turn a ban on drugs into a ban on free thought is beyond me.

I did not say that, you misunderstood my post. Someone was saying the USA bans bad drugs which is the same as Somalia banning what you can listen to.

By the way, as a Jew, how do you feel about ban on free thought in Israel? Is it allowed to deny the Holocaust there?

Of course Israel is banning free thought in this situation, but as a supporter of the Arab rights to ban free thought in Muslim countries which occurs about one thousand times more, I would not use that as an argument.

Please, elaborate on why it is a crime say Muhammod was false in Saudi Arabia.

Same thing.

But that is off topic, and I do not intend on getting into a religious debate or insulting anothers faith.

 

[Abu Zakariya]

I did not say that, you misunderstood my post. Someone was saying the USA bans bad drugs which is the same as Somalia banning what you can listen to.

You quoted that person, so I know what was being said. Khat isn't music, its drugs.

Of course Israel is banning free thought in this situation, but as a supporter of the Arab rights to ban free thought in Muslim countries which occurs about one thousand times more, I would not use that as an argument.

But why did you use that argument? That's hipocrisy. I'm not using that argument, I'm just pointing out your hipocrisy. If you support the ban on free thought in Israel, you aren't in a position to criticize other countries for doing the same.

Same thing.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. It's the same thing, so why bring that up?

 

[rav]

But why did you use that argument? That's hipocrisy. I'm not using that argument, I'm just pointing out your hipocrisy. If you support the ban on free thought in Israel, you aren't in a position to criticize other countries for doing the same.

No it is far from it. When did I mention I support Holocaust denial laws in Israel? Are you making assumptions?

 

[skhalid]

May Allah(s.w.t) Grant victory to the believers against the munafiq and those who take the unbelievers as their lords and protectors. Ameen.

Aaamin...we are all praying ....especially for peace in the world!!!

 

[Abu Zakariya]

No it is far from it. When did I mention I support Holocaust denial laws in Israel? Are you making assumptions?

Yes, I made an assumption. But only after asking you and not not having gotten an answer. But still, I shouldn't have assumed anything, you're right. I'm sorry. I guess you don't support the ban on free thought in Israel?

By the way, you made an assumption about me as well.

 

[rav]

Yes, I made an assumption. But only after asking you and not not having gotten an answer. But still, I shouldn't have assumed anything, you're right. I'm sorry. I guess you don't support the ban on free thought in Israel?

By the way, you made an assumption about me as well.

I'm not the biggest supporter of Israel's policies anyway. It is run by a secular entity and acts sometimes as an oppressor, forgetting the days we were oppressed. Now this does not mean Israel is wrong at all, or any more accountable than the Palestinians or Arab world in general who have continually refused to recognize Jewish existence in Israel, and have subsequently attacked Israel many times.

Therefore, I view Israel strictly within the context of Jewish law.

Israel should respond to attacks against it, but should always act with higher morality, then its enemies, because the enemies of Israel show no morals in battle and Israel should defeat them with morality as its largest weapon. For the Jews are commanded to be moral, and we should always act morally superior to our enemies.

Holocaust denial laws are a very tough subject. The Holocaust happend, it is fact, millions upon millions of Jews were led to gas chambers to die and never see their families. The survivors went back to find their houses taken by their non-jewish neighbors, many were slughtered by resident of towns after surving years of death camps as slaves with little food in freezing weather. A perfect example of ingorance is nothing was done as the bodies were burn into ashes and many of these camps were over looked by Polish towns. Here is an example of what happend to the Jewish corpses after being killed:

They were burn into ash. This ash is still there and in a dome a mountain of it is saved as a rememberance:

So now I must as this question. Should it be against the law to deny facts? No matter how disgsting it is, should denial of a fact be against the law? My answer is probably no. It could hurt many feelings, but in reality, we cannot lower ourselves to the opression Germany and most of Europe was under during Nazi reign. This was the kind of censership they had, and we should not have it, although I am not sure if we could seriously compare Nazi censorship, to Europe and Israel's censorship to denying a fact because how emotional and terrible it was and how many survivors and children of them there are that lost all of their family.

I still stand by my opinion though.

Yes, these are pictures I took when I visited the place over 50 of my family members died, and the place my grandfather refuses to and will never go back.

 

[Abu Zakariya]

I do know how painful these things can be. My father was taken to a camp and tortured by the Serbs simply for being Muslim and I've lost family members in the genocide of Muslims in Bosnia, so I know, on a personal note, how one feels when somebody denies or even justifies these kind of things. So I want to make it clear that I haven't questioned the Holocaust. I do, of course, believe it happened.
What I'm saying is, the Western countries that send people in prison for simply denying something shouldn't be criticizing other countries for restricting certain aspects of freedom of speech, since they do it themselves.

 

[rav]

I do know how painful these things can be. My father was taken to a camp and tortured by the Serbs simply for being Muslim and I've lost family members in the genocide of Muslims in Bosnia, so I know, on a personal note, how one feels when somebody denies or even justifies these kind of things. So I want to make it clear that I haven't questioned the Holocaust. I do, of course, believe it happened.
What I'm saying is, the Western countries that send people in prison for simply denying something shouldn't be criticizing other countries for restricting certain aspects of freedom of speech, since they do it themselves.

Good Post.