I would like an explanation as how you think Christians in Sri Lanka are somehow to blame for the New Zealand shootings.
Sri Lanka blast kills over 180 people
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I would like an explanation as how you think Christians in Sri Lanka are somehow to blame for the New Zealand shootings.
CuriousonTruth
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He wasn't saying that, he was saying it was their casus belli.
well he said "Don't them idiots know that we're not allowed to copy the enemy in their evil"
maybe the English here is clumsy, but who is "we"? He is making a direct connection between people on this board, and the guys who blew up churches in Sri Lanka.
This comes after you just claimed you had a murderous hatred for Europeans, Hindus, etc.
What do you think non-Muslims would think if they saw this kind of rhetoric?
CuriousonTruth
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By "we" he means muslims in general I presume.
Not sure where you got "murderous" from, but I have nothing to fear about hating Europeans, Russians, hindus, etc. I don't bend over backwards like liberal muslims. I have witnessed history and have formulated how to behave with the aforementioned groups, I don't entertain the idea of repeating the same naiveity of the Native Americans with the whole "Kind, polite" behaviour nonsense with Europeans.
For the liberal muslims who still haven't learned from history, they will eventually pay a heavy price and lose everthing they hold dear just like Andalusia and Ottomans did.
But anyway that is not the topic of discussion here.
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When did I say Christians in sri lanka are to blame?, I just guessed the reason why isis did it even before the sri lankan foreign minister confirmed it.
I think isis' 'rationale' is the same as the one the extremists always give innit?, it goes something like this 'you kill our civilians and we kill yours!' And in this case, 'you kill our worshippers and blah blah blah' :Emoji29:
I think all these nutjobs saw was a christian guy who massacred those Muslims in newzealand as they wouldn't understand about the white supremacist and neo Nazi nuances and all that
ISIS has made it clear in press releases and on their own boards that they do not kill Christians and others simply because Muslims are attacked. In other words, these are not revenge killings.
They kill anyone who does not follow their brand of Islam, and who has not pledged allegiance to the organization. Not simply in Middle-Eastern countries--anywhere. They are a roving, genocidal cult.
So I think we need to be careful when the word "we" is used in reference to that group, even if the intention is to be snarky or ironic. As a westerner, I do not consider the psycho who gunned down Muslims in New Zealand to be one of "us" --he is an outsider, a criminal.
Likewise, I find Curious' reference to "they" (as in all westerners, regardless of country or ethnicity) as enemies of Muslims everywhere to be something right out of an Jihadist press release. The idea that westerners are out to genocide Muslims like the Native Americans were (which isn't even true to begin with--it is a lot more complicated), or to seize countries and lands violently (Andalusia was originally conquered by Muslims) is inflammatory and simplistic.
Does the US practice soft imperialism through sanctions, diplomacy, and even military action? Absolutely. Is the US out to conquer the Middle-East and butcher everyone who lives there? Nonsense.
Do France and England want to seize land in the ME and partition the region? This isn't the early 20th century.
Meanwhile, European nations have welcomed millions of migrants, refugees, and immigrants from Muslim countries. Thousands of mosques have been built in Europe, the mayor of London is Muslim, etc. That certainly doesn't look like a hostile people who are out to destroy Muslims. Quite the opposite.
This "us vs. them" rhetoric has to stop. It plays into the hands of racists, jihadists, and others who want to sow discord and hatred.
CuriousonTruth
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First of all if you want to speak about me, you can speak directly to me.
Secondly, this guilt tripping tactics is old. Correlating real and genuine muslim (and other colonial subjects) resistance with extremist groups is a tactic used by you people to ensure the end of resistance and to ensure complete submission. I hope no one here falls for these tactics.
"They are a roving, genocidal cult."
For sure they are, but I don't see how they are different from USA, Israel, France, UK, Poland, Germany, Australia. ISIS are the arabic versions of European people.
You said a lot of superficial statements, to change the focus of discussion. The West runs the largest anti-islam industry in world's history that is specifically designed to harm and destroy Islam at a philosophical, theological and ideological level. To that end, they fund millions to produce more and more in such content. Furthermore, they produce movies, comics, "satire" to attack Islamic figures and islamic culture. To quote one of the staff of Charlie Hebdo, "We assassinate without the use of bullets."
As George Curzon, the West will never allow a political establishment of Islam to be ever established. To that end, the West has promoted secualrism, atheism, homosexuality around muslim world either through their vassal states (UAE, pre-shia Iran), through universities, through NGOs and funded secular political activists. When that was not enough, they have worked to destroy any islamic movement, with only Turkey's AKP being the only survivors. And even when that is enoguh they have launched invasions that has killed millions of people.
And there's RAND file on how the US plans to divide muslims into four groups so they keep fighting each other, instead of kicking Europeans out of muslim countries.
"Do France and England want to seize land in the ME and partition the region? This isn't the early 20th century. "
No there is already Israel and USA to do that. And France and UK are still looting the resources of Africa, while USA is looting ME and will eventually loot Venezuela and Iran.
"Meanwhile, European nations have welcomed millions of migrants, refugees, and immigrants from Muslim countries."
Now this is just commercial ad level propaganda. This is so ridiculous, I'm not sure if it warrants a reply. Not even 5% of the European people wanted any muslim or African refugees. The governments didn't have the people's mandate and were acting on their own. That's all nearly ALL of those governments have been kicked out of power, and will never be elected again. Even Merkel who was once the world's 3rd most influential politician is having to resign.
It is "Us vs Them", it always was. Europeans think they are the knights and everyone different than them are the evil monsters who need to be purged (be they native americans, gypsies, muslims, communists, etc) and muslims are just the new Orcs in line of succession. I am guessing if Europe takes down Islam, they will go after China next.
Bruv, let me tell u something very important about the corporate media, nearly everything they say is a lie. It's all propaganda just to assist them and their politicians' agenda.
I'll give you an example:
After the London 7/7 bombings, sky news was playing the videos of the suicide bombers and in the videos all the suicide bombers said that they are doing this as uk bombing is killing civilians in Iraq, straight after showing these videos a panel started discussing why they did the bombings
I'm like, er, why are they discussing this as these guys just plainly said in English why they did it, and guess what?, they completely ignored what was said from the bombers themselves and after some discussion they concluded that the reason why they did it is, they just want to change our way of life :Emoji46::Emoji46::Emoji46:
CuriousonTruth
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trueactivist.com/isis-commander-arrested-by-libyan-authorities-exposed-as-israeli-mossad-agent/?fbclid=IwAR1GG9lJq4wiRLQSR_jfARPuMmfWxT_tnF-2f5ShOiN8HDrGGZ3iqBbTF2M
[FONT="]‘ISIS Commander’ Arrested By Libyan Authorities Exposed As Israeli Mossad Agent[/FONT][FONT="]
Read More: https://www.trueactivist.com/isis-c...QSR_jfARPuMmfWxT_tnF-2f5ShOiN8HDrGGZ3iqBbTF2M
So this is a bit old but I wonder how credible this is.[/FONT]
[FONT="]‘ISIS Commander’ Arrested By Libyan Authorities Exposed As Israeli Mossad Agent[/FONT][FONT="]
Read More: https://www.trueactivist.com/isis-c...QSR_jfARPuMmfWxT_tnF-2f5ShOiN8HDrGGZ3iqBbTF2M
So this is a bit old but I wonder how credible this is.[/FONT]
You say the west is engaged in an anti-Muslim propaganda campaign? OK, and I'd invite you to compare that to how the west portrays Christianity in the media and press: countless movies and television shows have shown priests and pastors to be predators, criminals, etc. the church as a militant, corrupt organization. Artists funded by the US government have taken photos of crucifixes floating in urine, or have painted pictures that insult and desecrate the faith. Feminists protest the church by throwing blood at churches.
There is far more "anti-Christian" stuff out there than anti-Muslim, believe me. It isn't even close.
You call all Europeans ISIS, say you hate them, post stuff about the bombings in Sri Lanka that looks celebratory, and then wonder why only 5% of Europeans (if true--I doubt it) want Muslims in their countries?
Pregnant wife of Sri Lanka bomber detonates suicide vest during raids, killing her children and three police officers :Emoji29:
https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/...s/news-story/2c37c204a8bb080d79275347f786f458
https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/...s/news-story/2c37c204a8bb080d79275347f786f458
CuriousonTruth
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Your comprehension skills need real work
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The US government is one of the most radical christian governments in the world. I would say it is actually the last political christian establishment given that although Central America and South America are more religious, they have no real political establishments. In USA, the Evangelicals in the Bible Belt are mroe conservative than Pakistanis. I saw US TV programmes where the christian preacher said he went to heaven and saw Jesus with Trump and Jesus told him that Trump is his man, and those who reject Trump are the anti-christ. Now go and spin this same story in Pakistan about Imran Khan -everyone will laugh at you.
Yes in some countries liek France there is anti-christian propaganda but that is because they gave up christianity after the Revolution. That doesn't change the fact that they want to destroy islam as well.
Yes ISIS are arabic versions of Europeans, I'll say it again without a doubt. However, Europeans have a proven track record of genocide, extinction, world wars, etc. In terms of violence, isis doesn't hold a candle to Europe, not even close.
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You know when they are willing to kill their own children, these people are well and truly gone.
Yeah, there's Christians who do similar things. When they want to commit suicide they kill their kids too thinking the kids will be in heaven with them
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There's so much propaganda regarding war thst it's hard to tell whether this is genuine. Libyan government will have it in their interest to make out isis are mossad led; they will obviously say they accused him of being a spy but they know the media will take the 'mossad led' angle.
There could be some mossad spies in there just like there are moderate Muslim spies but that's just to direct air raids and relay info.
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I think u misunderstood. I was quoting the extremist rationale in regards to 'we' and 'us'
Basically they misunderstand a Quranic verse that says 'fight the enemy as they fight you'; while mainstream Muslims take that to mean, fight them in defense, they take it to mean, fight them in the way they fight you, so if they kill your civilians you kill theirs too
They also misunderstand the concept of eye for an eye in Islam. This principle is just for returning abuse or immediate like for like in a fight, however they extend its meaning to killing civilians too
There's a lot of propaganda out there regarding isis so I wouldn't just accept the media's claims.
The shias are traditionally called the 'rafidahs' meaning 'apostates' but this is just a reference to how they apostated in the early days of Islam so the penalty for apostasy doesn't apply to them as they've been non-Muslim (according to 1 opinion) for centuries
The media uses that term to say that's why the isis kill their civilians, however I was following Iraq war very closely. Shias started killing Sunni civilians first and isis started killing shia civilians as an eye for an eye
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Honestly, I don't know what jihadist nonsense you have been reading, but I don't think your opinions match up with that of most Muslims
To say all Europeans are basically ISIS is so silly it doesn't deserve a response.
forgot to explain the killing Sunni civilians part.
Isis do that for reasons of suspected treason and 'assisting the enemy' etc, but not for believing differently to them.
Isis are salafis in creed however they are ultra extreme. 95 percent of Iraqi and Syrian sunnis are ashari so if isis just killed Muslims for believing differently, I think none of the sunnis would be alive in those countries today :Emoji48:
Don't get me wrong, Isis are bad, however their shia and alawite opponents are even more bad, we just don't hear of the genocide their committing :Emoji29:
although assads men severely tortured Sunnis to death, isis just quickly beheaded assads men quick time
Ofcourse the western media will paint isis as the devil incarnate, but let's keep things in perspective when we judge
Isis do that for reasons of suspected treason and 'assisting the enemy' etc, but not for believing differently to them.
Isis are salafis in creed however they are ultra extreme. 95 percent of Iraqi and Syrian sunnis are ashari so if isis just killed Muslims for believing differently, I think none of the sunnis would be alive in those countries today :Emoji48:
Don't get me wrong, Isis are bad, however their shia and alawite opponents are even more bad, we just don't hear of the genocide their committing :Emoji29:
although assads men severely tortured Sunnis to death, isis just quickly beheaded assads men quick time
Ofcourse the western media will paint isis as the devil incarnate, but let's keep things in perspective when we judge
CuriousonTruth
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It is "silly" in that ISIS aren't even remotely close to Europeans when it comes to genocide. And given the decline of Saudis, it is unlikely that any other salafi movement will have the chance to compete with Europeans.
"Jihadist" nonsense? The importance of the discussion of European nationalism, European history, European xenophobia are not discussed in salafi circles. They only understand two types of people: themselves and the kuffar (which includes all non-muslims). Nothing more. Infact they don't take kindly to criticism of Europeans. You know arabs love European people (TE Lawrence anyone?) and they consider special focus on Europeans as racism.
Infact my understanding comes from European history, anti-European revolutionary leaders, some helpful Europeans who voluntarily spill the truth for us: https://nypost.com/2006/11/26/the-eurabia-myth-muslims-take-over-europe-sorry-theres-no-chance/
It honestly doesn't matter if those muslims don't understand, they will go extinct liek the gypsies, aboriginals, and native americans then.
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uh huh their scholars literally declared ashari and maturidi aqeedah as kufr based on greek philosophy. They didn't kill those sunnis because they forced them to follow salafi aqeedah.
And so what? Between a virus and a pathological bacteria, choosing neither is good. It's like choosing which company of rat poison you want to die to.
Good thing both they and their sect is dead, good riddance, no one will miss them.
Well all salafi's say ashari and maruridi is kufr based on their assumption that it contains 'grave worship' but they never forced anyone to accept their creed afaik.
Anyway, the bottom line is, they never killed anyone for believing differently other than the devil worshippers the yezidis
They're dead? They just pulled off a massive terrorist attack bro so what do you mean they're dead? Those Americans should just give them their own state as they are more deadly when they operate clandestinely like this
Your people (the Turks) butcher 1.5 million Armenians in the 20th century, and now you are going to lecture Europeans on mass-murder? And yes, I've seen your Armenian Holocaust-denial nonsense--not legitimate scholar or researcher anywhere in the world supports the claim that the killings never happened, or were simple a few "war casualties".
Well before the Armenians were put to the sword, the Byzantine Greeks were brutalized during the conquest.
This is just hypocrisy at the highest level
CuriousonTruth
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You are confusing sufi practice with Aqeedah. No the main contention is the physical shape of God, the throne, the "descent" of God, etc.
"but they never forced anyone to accept their creed afaik."
I think you need to research better on this topic.
"They're dead? They just pulled off a massive terrorist attack bro so what do you mean they're dead? Those Americans should just give them their own state as they are more deadly when they operate clandestinely like this"
When you cut the throat of an animal like a cow or dog, you will see it moves and shifts around violently and struggles before it eventually dies - this is the state of ISIS. The only countries where further ISIS attacks could happen is Europe and that is only if the Europeans let it happen to create public sentiment against islam further.
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We went over this before, the whole "Armenian genocide" nonsense is a western conspiracy to diplomatically pressurize Erdogan. Let me make this as clear as I can be, if Erdogan wasn't in power, and a pro-west secular dog was in power, you wouldn't even know a country called Armenia today, let alone anything related to "armenian genocide".
But I have to admit, Europeans are good at fairy tales. They made the greek myth, roman myth, christian myth and now Armenian myth. Whatever it takes to further your cause right?
The only time Greeks were dealt properly was by Sultan Mehmet II, and even he only had about 30-50k Greek civilian casualties, which was collateral damage, rather than a determined attempt to expel Greeks. Believe me, if Ottomans wanted to make Greeks, Serbians, Bulgarians, ROmanians disappear, they could easily have. But they didn't because of some weird tolerance philosophy and jizya farming.
And then we wouldn't have been talking because atleast half of Europe would remain under Ottoman control today. They lost most of their land because of rebellion. So much for tolerance lol.
SeekerOfTrurh
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Hello guys, I'm silent observer of this forum, though ridiculous posts of CuriousonTruth made me want to post my 2 cents in this thread.
You forget that muslim empires were not much tolerant either. Even now in many arab countries there is literally apartheid and segregation between muslim arabs and 2nd grade citizens. Best example is Quatar - many workers from poor states are working almost as slaves - for 200$ and without even right to go back(many have confiscated passports).
Its funny cause in europe there are political parties and mainstream media that are reversing situation and try to picture all muslims as evil people and potential terrorist. Am I , mixed polish-german christian in my 20s responsible for world wars or Iraq invasion? Are you as muslim responsible for ISIS massacres?
Lets be honest - we all prefer people from same cultural circle and sudden appearance of group of strangers had to make some tensions.Public opinion in europe changed with time, and sadly refugees are not without blame too. Many of them have demanding attitude and wants social benefits from their new countries(usually very high in many european states), but refuse to blend into society or even learn language. Also we should remember that some of those refugees took part in terror attacks in europe, overall crime rate among immigrants is also very high. On top of that add economic slowdown and high financial burden - It is not really suprise that people are not that welcoming as Bible or Quran teaches us to be.
Lets say situation is reverse and waves of refugees are marching toward middle east from war-plunged europe. Would the Arab world be more hospitable? Obviously not, some of persian gulf states didnt do almost anything to help their brothers in faith.
You have simple problem - you talk about history, but you dont know anything about that. History shows us that every powerful country/organization is very agressive toward other states. Look even now - in Middle East you have two major powers - Iran and Saudi Arabia. How many refugees they took? Do they care for Syrians or Yemenis? Was Ottoman Empire more tolerant toward christians than British Empire toward native Americans? Only a bit. Christians under Ottomans were second grade citizens taxed more heavily, enslaved into jannisaries and with only apparent religious freedom. Do you know that many Albanians and Bosnians conversed to Islam only cause of very high taxes?
So whats the point of this post? Only to show you that you cant label people as evil only cause they are christians/muslims/Americans/Arabs/Turks/German.You make same mistake as new zealand killer. As muslim supremacist you are not better than him. Its same dangerous and immature ideology.
You forget that muslim empires were not much tolerant either. Even now in many arab countries there is literally apartheid and segregation between muslim arabs and 2nd grade citizens. Best example is Quatar - many workers from poor states are working almost as slaves - for 200$ and without even right to go back(many have confiscated passports).
Its funny cause in europe there are political parties and mainstream media that are reversing situation and try to picture all muslims as evil people and potential terrorist. Am I , mixed polish-german christian in my 20s responsible for world wars or Iraq invasion? Are you as muslim responsible for ISIS massacres?
Lets be honest - we all prefer people from same cultural circle and sudden appearance of group of strangers had to make some tensions.Public opinion in europe changed with time, and sadly refugees are not without blame too. Many of them have demanding attitude and wants social benefits from their new countries(usually very high in many european states), but refuse to blend into society or even learn language. Also we should remember that some of those refugees took part in terror attacks in europe, overall crime rate among immigrants is also very high. On top of that add economic slowdown and high financial burden - It is not really suprise that people are not that welcoming as Bible or Quran teaches us to be.
Lets say situation is reverse and waves of refugees are marching toward middle east from war-plunged europe. Would the Arab world be more hospitable? Obviously not, some of persian gulf states didnt do almost anything to help their brothers in faith.
You have simple problem - you talk about history, but you dont know anything about that. History shows us that every powerful country/organization is very agressive toward other states. Look even now - in Middle East you have two major powers - Iran and Saudi Arabia. How many refugees they took? Do they care for Syrians or Yemenis? Was Ottoman Empire more tolerant toward christians than British Empire toward native Americans? Only a bit. Christians under Ottomans were second grade citizens taxed more heavily, enslaved into jannisaries and with only apparent religious freedom. Do you know that many Albanians and Bosnians conversed to Islam only cause of very high taxes?
Believe me, if Americans and Europeans wanted to make muslims disappear, they could easily accomplish that(western armies are way stronger). But they didn't because dunno, maybe they are not as anti-muslims as you want them to be?
Once again history - you forget to add that in XIX century Ottoman Empire was in decline and in very bad shape. Whenever such a situation occurs, subjudged nations will try to rise and fight for independence, whatever we say about Greek Christians or Arab Muslims.
So what happened to Armenians? did they commit collective suicide? Sorry, I know - they just casually walk into desert and never went back right? What about Greeks or Assyrians? Do you really believe that thousands of people disappeared without reason? Turkey has no shame and thanks to their stubbornness they avoid serious talk about reparations. I can assure you that I knew about those genocides long before I knew the name Erdogan...
So whats the point of this post? Only to show you that you cant label people as evil only cause they are christians/muslims/Americans/Arabs/Turks/German.You make same mistake as new zealand killer. As muslim supremacist you are not better than him. Its same dangerous and immature ideology.