State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron

[Thinker]

The question is: does Islam allow Muslims to ‘integrate’ into a non-Muslim society?

If you don’t agree with my statement . . . .
Is it not the case that Islam specifically commands that Muslims not only must not integrate they must do everything they can to not to take on the appearance of or adopt the customs and culture of non-Muslims?

Do you then agree with the counter statement. . . . .
Islam allows and encourages Muslims to integrate they must do everything they can to take on the appearance of and adopt the customs and culture of non-Muslims?

 

[GuestFellow]

Tell me which part is wrong? Are you saying for example that Islam does not command that Muslims look differently than non Muslims? Why do Muslim men wear beards?

Muslim men do not wear beards...they grow it. XD

Hi group

Howdy.

The question follows: does Islam allow Muslims to ‘integrate’ into a non-Muslim society?

As long as we can still practice Islam, then I see no problems.

 

[Thinker]

why do monks, Jews, sikhs and countless others sport beards?

Why does barnacle Bill the sailor wear a beard, why does any none Muslim wear a beard - because they want to. Why do Muslim men wear a beard and why must it be a fist long and with a shaven moustache? You know and I know why and it's not because they want to or because it's fashionable; or do you know why, maybe you don't know what Islam commands?

 

[جوري]

The question is: does Islam allow Muslims to ‘integrate’ into a non-Muslim society? If you don’t agree with my statement . . . . Is it not the case that Islam specifically commands that Muslims not only must not integrate they must do everything they can to not to take on the appearance of or adopt the customs and culture of non-Muslims? Do you then agree with the counter statement. . . . . Islam allows and encourages Muslims to integrate they must do everything they can to take on the appearance of and adopt the customs and culture of non-Muslims?

Quote us from the Quran and ahadiths pls.
also do you see something wrong in keeping ones identity?.. do you integrate with homosexuals, transvestites and prostitutes because they're a popular sub-culture in your society? You need scotty to beam you up so you can formulate better questions.. I have seen better questions from fifth graders!

 

[جوري]

Why does barnacle Bill the sailor wear a beard, why does any none Muslim wear a beard - because they want to. Why do Muslim men wear a beard and why must it be a fist long and with a shaven moustache? You know and I know why and it's not because they want to or because it's fashionable; or do you know why, maybe you don't know what Islam commands?

Really Jews and sikhs and monks sport beards because they want to? Perhaps you can quote me from the source directly.. again.. I prefer things that are sourced from reputable references than from out of your ass and I think most people will agree to that!

 

[Thinker]

why do monks, Jews, sikhs and countless others sport beards?

They wear beards because they want to. Why do Muslim men wear beards and why must they be a fist long and with a shaven moustache - I know the reason and you know; if you don't know the reason you show a shallow knowledge of Islam!

 

[جوري]

They wear beards because they want to. Why do Muslim men wear beards and why must they be a fist long and with a shaven moustache - I know the reason and you know; if you don't know the reason you show a shallow knowledge of Islam!

still waiting for your source on the afore mentioned groups.. or was there a part of what I'd written that was difficult for you to understand?

 

[جوري]

if you don't know what a reputable source is, and not speaking out of your ass, please let me help you along:

Question 11.1.5: Dress: Why do many Jewish men sport beards and/or long sideburns?

​

Answer:

The Torah, the Five Books of Moses, has a commandment not to shave the
corners of the head. [Specifically, Leviticus 19:27 says, "Do not
round the corner of your head."] The Torah also forbids a male Jew
from removing hair from one's sideburns and temple are (known as
pei'ot ha-rosh). Actually, the sideburns merely have to be long enough
that one can pull on the hair, and the beard area can be shaved with
something other than a sharp blade (many people accept the use of
electric shavers). But specifically within the Chassidic community,
there is a custom not to shave (and frequently not even to trim) the
beard, and to permit the sideburn area (all the way up to the top of
the ear) to grow long as well (the long sideburns are called peyot) .
Some tuck the hair up under their kipot/skullcaps, while others curl
the hair. Many Orthodox say the payes (a.k.a. earlocks/sidelocks)
begin right at the temple, to just behind the ear, and must grow no
shorter than the top of the cheekbone. Then they are to be worn pushed
forward of the ear so as to be visible. Many, following Rabbi Nachman,
grow them long because he said he could "pull them by their payess out
of hell" once he was in Paradise!

Another note related to the "not rounding of the corners". This is in
direct relation to the passage about not harvesting the corners of the
field, but leaving it alone for G-d. Finally, in not rounding "the
four corners" of the face, we have a comparison with the tzitzis at
the four corners of the tallit. People forget that the hair, the
harvesting, and the tallit are all mitzvot.

On a practical level, shaving or trimming of the beard is not
permitted on the Sabbath or Holidays, and for a few stretches during
the year [such as portions of the time between Pesach and Shavuos]. A
beardless man will grow days or weeks of stubble, but a bearded man
who doesn't shave or trim his beard during that time will not look
significantly different.

To be specific, the Law is that one must not use a straight razor
(including safety-razors) on one's temples or to shave one's beard.
Those Jewish men who have wanted to be clean-shaven have had various
options; in the past century, either depilatory powder (ancestor to
Nair), or electric shavers. Electric shavers (at least most of them;
check with your local Orthodox rabbi for acceptable brands) function
like a scissors: two relatively dull blades pinch off the hair, rather
than one very sharp blade slicing it off.

Chasidim and some others have kabbalistic reasons for growing a beard,
so they will not take advantage of modern technology. Otherwise,
Jewish men having beards have it for other reasons, be they simply "to
look Jewish" or style or whatever.

As for sidelocks, that is a result of a peculiar interpretation of the
law against shaving one's temples. The basic law is that there must
remain enough hair to bend it over with one's fingers; that can be as
little as 1/2 inch or so. Some, notably Hungarian chasidim and
Yemenites, do not cut the sidelocks at all, and they grow very long.
Most chasidim have short sidelocks: thin, 2-3", that they tuck behind
their ears, so you won't see them.

Many who grow long peyos do so for Kabbalistic reasons. One of the
opinions in Kabbalah is that the peyos need to be worn long only until
the beard grows in. Once the beard grows, the peyos of the side of the
head should not be allowed to grow down beyond where the sides of the
beard begin to appear.

Finally, some Jewish men just don't like to shave.


http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/05-Worship/section-42.html


Now, how about asking Jews if they can or are willing to integrate in British culture and hold on to British values (whatever those maybe) or is it just a Muslim's beard that bothers you?
or let me sum it up for you.. are you a hypocrite? Yes, yes you are!

all the best

 

[GuestFellow]

Now, how about asking Jews if they can or are willing to integrate in British culture and hold on to British values (whatever those maybe) or is it just a Muslim's beard that bothers you?
or let me sum it up for you.. are you a hypocrite? Yes, yes you are!

You raised a good point. What are British values? What are Muslims to be integrating into...

 

[R Khan]

The Prophet Muhammad(sas) instructed the men to "grow the beard"; "leave the beard" but he also told the men to take care of it's appearance (not to look messy) so some companions adopted the "fist-size" length in order to cut any excessive hair. One of the key reasons growing a beard is: it something the Prophet(sas) himself did and what the other Prophets had also done, but also for the Muslim men to have their own "look" (shortened/trimmed moustache and a beard). The sikhs grow their hair, beard and moustache. The Jews also grow a beard.

Shaven moustache because we aren't supposed to drink water which passes through hair (unhealthy), so if you have a long moustache it will pass through it.

 

[Thinker]

You raised a good point. What are British values? What are Muslims to be integrating into...

So many but let's start with one. We great each other with handshake; if we offer our hand and it is refused, culturally that is offensive. That is one of our values it is our culture and it has been stated om this forum that Muslim women will not (should not) shake hands. That is just one of many. We can start there if you like?

 

[جوري]

You raised a good point. What are British values? What are Muslims to be integrating into...

Let me sum up British values as I have learned from the likes of our primeval friend.
1- fornication
2-drunkenness
3-homosexuality
4-hatred and warmongering (especially of Muslims)
5-libel and slander
6- sexual liberation like that French actress that died recently they keep singing her praise as pushing the limits for sexual liberation maria shneider or whatever the hell her name is.. basically taking off your clothes before middle aged men in a movie much ado about nothing save soft porn, then being thrown into a life of drugs and alcohol and lesbianism and early death and that of course is liberation that those brutish muslims may never understand..

are British values or the values that Europe is singing about now a days.. anything to do with morality and common decency think its polar opposite and those are their values.

hope that helps insha'Allah

 

[R Khan]

Yes, so what is you problem if Muslim women do not shake hands with men?

 

[IslamicRevival]

I got it from thie forum;

We are still waiting, Source?

Instead of writing off what I have said itemise what I have said and tell me it is wrong?

We are not forbidden from integrating into ' A Non Muslim society'

Do you then agree with the counter statement. . . . .
Islam allows and encourages Muslims to integrate they must do everything they can to take on the appearance of and adopt the customs and culture of non-Muslims?

You expect us to go against Islamic law for the sake of 'Cultural Values'? Get out of here man

 

[aadil77]

The question is: does Islam allow Muslims to ‘integrate’ into a non-Muslim society?

If you don’t agree with my statement . . . .
Is it not the case that Islam specifically commands that Muslims not only must not integrate they must do everything they can to not to take on the appearance of or adopt the customs and culture of non-Muslims?

Do you then agree with the counter statement. . . . .
Islam allows and encourages Muslims to integrate they must do everything they can to take on the appearance of and adopt the customs and culture of non-Muslims?

I don't agree with any of your statements. Simple answer is we can integrate to the extent it doesn't condradict any islamic principles

 

[جوري]

So many but let's start with one. We great each other with handshake; if we offer our hand and it is refused, culturally that is offensive. That is one of our values it is our culture and it has been stated om this forum that Muslim women will not (should not) shake hands. That is just one of many. We can start there if you like?

for the third time I am asking you, do you find it offensive when the Japanese refuse to handshake and prefer to bow instead or Just Muslims?

do you disrespect everyone's etiquette or just Muslims?

I'd really like an answer to that!

 

[GuestFellow]

So many but let's start with one. We great each other with handshake; if we offer our hand and it is refused, culturally that is offensive. That is one of our values it is our culture and it has been stated om this forum that Muslim women will not (should not) shake hands. That is just one of many. We can start there if you like?

What is wrong with saying hi or hello? I do that all the time when I used to work and no female staff was upset/offended. Give me the entire list...

Let me sum up British values as I have learned from the likes of our primeval friend.
1- fornication
2-drunkenness
3-homosexuality
4-hatred and warmongering (especially of Muslims)
5-libel and slander
6- sexual liberation like that French actress that died recently they keep singing her praise as pushing the limits for sexual liberation maria shneider or whatever the hell her name is.. basically taking off your clothes before middle aged men in a movie much ado about nothing save soft porn, then being thrown into a life of drugs and alcohol and lesbianism and early death and that of course is liberation that those brutish muslims may never understand..

are British values or the values that Europe is singing about now a days.. anything to do with morality and common decency think its polar opposite and those are their values.

hope that helps insha'Allah

:wa:

I think it is safe to conclude that British people do not have a official set of values..everyone does what they want as long as the law permits it.

 

[IslamicRevival]

I think it is safe to conclude that British people do not have a official set of values..everyone does what they want as long as the law permits it.

You just hit the

on the head

 

[Thinker]

We can dance around the details all day but the simple question is - does Islam allow Muslims to ‘integrate’ into a non-Muslim society? Yes or no? And integration mean acceptance of the fundamental values of that society which is about accepting its cultural values - simple as that. Yes or no?

 

[IslamicRevival]

We can dance around the details all day but the simple question is - does Islam allow Muslims to ‘integrate’ into a non-Muslim society? Yes or no? And integration mean acceptance of the fundamental values of that society which is about accepting its cultural values - simple as that. Yes or no?

Sorry to say but you really are a joker of the highest magnitude!