State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron

What is wrong with saying hi or hello? I do that all the time when I used to work and no female staff was upset/offended.

I think it is safe to conclude that British people do not have a official set of values..everyone does what they want as long as the law permits it.

It's not about what the law permits it's about what society accepts as its norms. Refusing a handshake is legally your right but is also refusing to accept a cultural norm which in turn is refusing to integrate. Again, your legal right but you should come out and say I will not integrate or I will.
 
It's not about what the law permits it's about what society accepts as its norms. Refusing a handshake is legally your right but is also refusing to accept a cultural norm which in turn is refusing to integrate. Again, you legal right, so either come out and say I will not integrate or I will.

go ahead shake hands don't be shy..

Large_ulcer_Nigeria_hand_large-1.jpg
 
Yes, so what is you problem if Muslim women do not shake hands with men?

If you can't see that this is a (one of) the problems you are fooling yourself. It is just one of many reasons why Muslims are setting themselves apart and saying we will not integrate. That's your legal right, you can do that but you are too frightened to say it because you know the questions that will follow.
 
If you can't see that this is a (one of) the problems you are fooling yourself. It is just one of many reasons why Muslims are setting themselves apart and saying we will not integrate. That's your legal right, you can do that but you are too frightened to say it because you know the questions that will follow.

So in other words you want an excuse to touch women?
I will say it here: we aren't frightened; if you culture and your so-called "norms" contradict our principles then in return we walk away from such things and hold onto our principles.

It's not about what the law permits it's about what society accepts as its norms. Refusing a handshake is legally your right but is also refusing to accept a cultural norm which in turn is refusing to integrate. Again, your legal right but you should come out and say I will not integrate or I will.

What about.. if I don't like you so I won't shake your hand?

Your using something so small as a hand shake for your arguments about integration, try something more higher please.
 
We can dance around the details all day but the simple question is - does Islam allow Muslims to ‘integrate’ into a non-Muslim society? Yes or no? And integration mean acceptance of the fundamental values of that society which is about accepting its cultural values - simple as that. Yes or no?

Wats wit this yes or no black n white attitude. chillax! Its not that complicated as u are making it out to be now is it. Theres gotta be a middle ground somewhere.

A non-Muslim does not have to follow my ways/traditions beliefs, Same goes for me. Why must I accept their tradition. Theres a big difference between respect & acceptance. I have to respect other peoples cultures n beliefs that doesnt mean that I have to be part of their crowd.

To clarify, by respect I mean to know that its their choice to do wat they see fit. But it doesnt mean that I think highly of some of the aspects of western societies.
 
I know many Jewish men who will not hand shake any women
I know many Jewish women who will not hand shake any man.

But the 'Jewish Community' are deemed as being 'Integrated'
 
Cheap - very cheap. Shame on you.


How so? you'd deny that you'd not shake hands with a sick person? or that you'd respect a Japanese custom or even a Jewish one.. yet all that ever bothers you is that Muslims like to hold on to their identity? So who is cheap and a sellout?
 
We can dance around the details all day but the simple question is - does Islam allow Muslims to ‘integrate’ into a non-Muslim society? Yes or no?

Yes, as long as we can practice Islam.

And integration mean acceptance of the fundamental values of that society which is about accepting its cultural values - simple as that. Yes or no?

What cultural values?

It's not about what the law permits it's about what society accepts as its norms. Refusing a handshake is legally your right but is also refusing to accept a cultural norm which in turn is refusing to integrate. Again, your legal right but you should come out and say I will not integrate or I will.

By refusing a handshake with a female staff, that means I'm not integrating? -_-;;

What is wrong with a simple smile and hello? I always say that and it works.

@ τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

What happened to that hand? O_O
 
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This debate surrounds 'muslims' accepting the 'host' cultural 'values'.
What about 'host' accepting certain values of muslims?!
 
@ thinker: I'd like to use my shaking hand and do a machine-gun slapping maneuver on that monkey face of yours till you evolve into a human! grrrr RAWR.
 
:sl:

I googled British values and here there are:

I. The rule of law. Our society is based on the idea that we all abide by the same rules, whatever our wealth or status. No one is above the law - not even the government.

II. The sovereignty of the Crown in Parliament. The Lords, the Commons and the monarch constitute the supreme authority in the land. There is no appeal to any higher jurisdiction, spiritual or temporal.

III. The pluralist state. Equality before the law implies that no one should be treated differently on the basis of belonging to a particular group. Conversely, all parties, sects, faiths and ideologies must tolerate the existence of their rivals.

IV. Personal freedom. There should be a presumption, always and everywhere, against state coercion. We should tolerate eccentricity in others, almost to the point of lunacy, provided no one else is harmed.

V. Private property. Freedom must include the freedom to buy and sell without fear of confiscation, to transfer ownership, to sign contracts and have them enforced. Britain was quicker than most countries to recognise this and became, in consequence, one of the happiest and most prosperous nations on Earth.

VI. Institutions. British freedom and British character are immanent in British institutions. These are not, mostly, statutory bodies, but spring from the way free individuals regulate each other's conduct, and provide for their needs, without recourse to coercion.

VII. The family. Civic society depends on values being passed from generation to generation. Stable families are the essential ingredient of a stable society.

VIII. History. British children inherit a political culture, a set of specific legal rights and obligations, and a stupendous series of national achievements. They should be taught about these things.

IX. The English-speaking world. The atrocities of September 11, 2001, were not simply an attack on a foreign nation; they were an attack on the anglosphere - on all of us who believe in freedom, justice and the rule of law.

X. The British character. Shaped by and in turn shaping our national institutions is our character as a people: stubborn, stoical, indignant at injustice. "The Saxon," wrote Kipling, "never means anything seriously till he talks about justice and right."

Source
 
Waah machine-gun slap! :O this bradda is RAGING!

You could probably just train him and level him up a bit and then he'll evolve eventually, most pokemons evolve.
 
@ τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ What happened to that hand? O_


It is a mycobacterium pretty much like that which causes TB and Leprosy .. called Mycobacterium ulcerans causes Buruli ulcer.. you can read about it on google if you want..
people should really learn how the other half lives before they fixate on such trivialities!

:w:
 
. The rule of law. Our society is based on the idea that we all abide by the same rules, whatever our wealth or status. No one is above the law - not even the government.

Is this the same rule that applied to MPs, when they made false expenses claims? Oh Please!!!
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1411074 said:


It is a mycobacterium pretty much like that which causes TB and Leprosy .. called Mycobacterium ulcerans causes Buruli ulcer.. you can read about it on google if you want..
people should really learn how the other half lives before they fixate on such trivialities!

:w:

:sl:

Oh man, that is really sad...may Allah ease their pain.
 

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