Stem cell research

still we have the arrogance of the kuffar having the audacity to say this just happened.. Pretty ridiculous.
 
I think the issue is that research to modify the creation of Allah, to extend someone's life in "unnatural" ways is the problem. If people are sick, dying, its their time to die.... its not our time to extend the lifespan of people.
 
Not to mention it is haram to attempt to change the Creation of Allah SWT.

And when the time comes, i.e. when Allah SWT decrees someone to die - nothing can prevent him from dying. and if Allah SWT wills someone to live, no matter how severe the illness, he will survive.

Problem is, those who try to use regenerative stuff, to try to make themselves young again - may Allah SWT destroy such people. Ameen.

There was a case when someone tried to take from a young lad some cells or something to make himself young again. he caught an illness and died.

As Muslims we should embrace death.
 
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Serinity said:
Not to mention it is haram to attempt to change the Creation of Allah SWT.

And when the time comes, i.e. when Allah SWT decrees someone to die - nothing can prevent him from dying. and if Allah SWT wills someone to live, no matter how severe the illness, he will survive.

Problem is, those who try to use regenerative stuff, to try to make themselves young again - may Allah SWT destroy such people. Ameen.

There was a case when someone tried to take from a young lad some cells or something to make himself young again. he caught an illness and died.

As Muslims we should embrace death.
Click to expand...

Stop being stupid for a moment... it's not about trying to prevent death forever. It's about giving people the option to survive. If you get a kidney disease, you can go to hospital, go on a waiting list for a kidney transplant and have the operation. You seem to think that we should do nothing to help save people? Wake up bro... If you accidentally get bitten by a snake or a spider, don't you dare go to hospital for treatment because we should all embrace death. No... It's human nature to want to survive so stop being ridiculous.

There's a reason we're sending medical aid and food to Syria... It's to help save them. God forbid your child gets a life threatening illness and you think you won't take him to hospital because Allah will save him for you. That's just stupid talk, just because Allah can save him doesn't mean he ever will. Go stand in front of a train and see if Allah saves you...

With regards to embryos, the soul does not enter the fetus until the 120th day so it's not haram to use embryonic cells. You think Allah gave us the intelligence, the curiosity and the ability to pursue science if he didn't want us to? Allah gave us incredibly powerful brains for a reason. In fact I argue it would be a crime against Allah not to use what he gave us to create a better, safer more vibrant world for ourselves.

I hope you're not one of those people who thinks nothing is worth pursuing because we're all going to die anyway. You wanted to do programming right? What's the point? It's meaningless, you're going to die soon anyway. That's idiocy.
 
Serinity said:
Not to mention it is haram to attempt to change the Creation of Allah SWT.

And when the time comes, i.e. when Allah SWT decrees someone to die - nothing can prevent him from dying. and if Allah SWT wills someone to live, no matter how severe the illness, he will survive.

Problem is, those who try to use regenerative stuff, to try to make themselves young again - may Allah SWT destroy such people. Ameen.

There was a case when someone tried to take from a young lad some cells or something to make himself young again. he caught an illness and died.

As Muslims we should embrace death.
Click to expand...

EgyptPrincess said:
Stop being stupid for a moment... it's not about trying to prevent death forever. It's about giving people the option to survive. If you get a kidney disease, you can go to hospital, go on a waiting list for a kidney transplant and have the operation. You seem to think that we should do nothing to help save people? Wake up bro... If you accidentally get bitten by a snake or a spider, don't you dare go to hospital for treatment because we should all embrace death. No... It's human nature to want to survive so stop being ridiculous.

There's a reason we're sending medical aid and food to Syria... It's to help save them. God forbid your child gets a life threatening illness and you think you won't take him to hospital because Allah will save him for you. That's just stupid talk, just because Allah can save him doesn't mean he ever will. Go stand in front of a train and see if Allah saves you...

With regards to embryos, the soul does not enter the fetus until the 120th day so it's not haram to use embryonic cells. You think Allah gave us the intelligence, the curiosity and the ability to pursue science if he didn't want us to? Allah gave us incredibly powerful brains for a reason. In fact I argue it would be a crime against Allah not to use what he gave us to create a better, safer more vibrant world for ourselves.

I hope you're not one of those people who thinks nothing is worth pursuing because we're all going to die anyway. You wanted to do programming right? What's the point? It's meaningless, you're going to die soon anyway. That's idiocy.
Click to expand...


Muslims believe that death is unavoidable at its written time and place.
However the point of medicine is not to prevent death, or even to prolong life,
But it is to ease the suffering of our fellow human, and do our best to treat their illness with whatever knowledge we have.
You can survive for a lengthy period of time with kidney failure with or without dialysis, but one is more painful an existence than the other.
When we treat a patient we should do it with the best of manners and the utmost humility, and remember that we do our part but ultimately it is Allah who heals. (So treatment itself can be a dawah)
Two patients with the same illness can be given the same treatment with the same medication and one will survive and the other may die. We do the best we can, but we are not the ones to decide the barakah in the medicine.
Somebody with a more dunya centric view will chalk this up to a difference in genetics causing different subtle reaction to the medication, which is indeed the mechanism, but we know that the causation of this is ultimately by Allah's Will.

So Serinity you are correct in saying that death is unavoidable, but that does not mean we should not pursue knowledge of medicine and try to improve the health of those who are suffering. I think what you are referring to is needless plastic surgery that celebrities do and stuff.

And EgyptPrincess you too are right in stating that Allah has blessed us with intellect to pursue knowledge. Through the pursuit of knowledge it is our responsibility to realize that this universe and our existence in itself is perfect and humbling and realize the existence of a Creator and appreciate the perfection and Mercy of our Creator.

I think you are both correct, but there was simply some small misunderstanding in between.
 
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Cpt.America said:
Muslims believe that death is unavoidable at its written time and place.
However the point of medicine is not to prevent death, or even to prolong life,
But it is to ease the suffering of our fellow human, and do our best to treat their illness with whatever knowledge we have.
You can survive for a lengthy period of time with kidney failure with or without dialysis, but one is more painful an existence than the other.
When we treat a patient we should do it with the best of manners and the utmost humility, and remember that we do our part but ultimately it is Allah who heals. (So treatment itself can be a dawah)
Two patients with the same illness can be given the same treatment with the same medication and one will survive and the other may die. We do the best we can, but we are not the ones to decide the barakah in the medicine.
Somebody with a more dunya centric view will chalk this up to a difference in genetics causing different subtle reaction to the medication, which is indeed the mechanism, but we know that the causation of this is ultimately by Allah's Will.

So Serinity you are correct in saying that death is unavoidable, but that does not mean we should not pursue knowledge of medicine and try to improve the health of those who are suffering. I think what you are referring to is needless plastic surgery that celebrities do and stuff.

And EgyptPrincess you too are right in stating that Allah has blessed us with intellect to pursue knowledge. Through the pursuit of knowledge it is our responsibility to realize that this universe and our existence in itself is perfect and humbling and realize the existence of a Creator and appreciate the perfection and Mercy of our Creator.

I think you are both correct, but there was simply some small misunderstanding in between.
Click to expand...

It just seems that Serinity doesn't see the point in medicine or scientific treatment because ultimately it's Allah who decides who lives and who dies. Therefore if you get cancer or a life threatening illness it's pointless to go to the hospital for treatment because whether you have the treatment or not, it's Allah's decision who lives and who dies.

Statistics how that those who have cancer treatment survive more than those who do not have it. In fact not getting the treatment has proven 100% mortality rate. So it would seem that Allah NEVER saves those who do not try to save themselves.

Cancer WILL kill you... but with treatment and medication, Allah may spare your life.
 
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I never said not to try to save life. you are misunderstanding me.

As Muslims - As Cpt.America said - our belief is that death is unavoidable - so one can't prevent a death Allah SWT decreed.

What I am saying - those who attempt with science to avoid death are but in delusion - everyone will die, and everyone will taste death.

And I don't find it right to INTENTIONALLY abort something, and use it for 'science'. Sounds inhumane. If it is possible to save a human life - or to let him live - who are we to prevent that?

There are those who do not fear Allah SWT and tries to make themselves young again, thinking they can escape death. When death comes, it will happen.

There was such a case once, who tried to make himself young, but died in the process.

I don't think it is ethical to intentionally abort for scientific purposes.
There is a cure for every illness except death.
 
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EgyptPrincess said:
It just seems that Serinity doesn't see the point in medicine or scientific treatment because ultimately it's Allah who decides who lives and who dies. Therefore if you get cancer or a life threatening illness it's pointless to go to the hospital for treatment because whether you have the treatment or not, it's Allah's decision who lives and who dies.

Statistics how that those who have cancer treatment survive more than those who do not have it. In fact not getting the treatment has proven 100% mortality rate. So it would seem that Allah NEVER saves those who do not try to save themselves.

Cancer WILL kill you... but with treatment and medication, Allah may spare your life.
Click to expand...



Good example is:

Anas ibn Malik reported: A man said, “O Messenger of Allah, should I tie my camel and trust in Allah, or should I untie her and trust in Allah?” The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Tie her and trust in Allah.”
Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 2517

Seeking medical treatment is tying our camel.

A person who does not seek cancer treatment may live for a long time and then die (as Steve Jobs did. He didn't get treatment for his pancreatic cancer)
And a person who did recieve treatment, may find themselves in remission and die.

The fact that death is unavoidable does not excuse us from failing to seek treatment.
Our bodies are a trust from Allah. It is our responsibility to Allah to keep them in good health.

Having a fatalistic view is unislamic. People with extreme fatalistic views are the ones who say that "What is the point of life, Allah already knows who will go to Jahannam and who will go to Jannah" and then choose not to work towards Allah, in effect choosing Jahannam for themselves.

Likewise, a person who is ill and has the means to take care of their bodies and chooses not to, is doing a disservice to Allah, and showing the intention of their choice. Allah is the One who prolongs life or chooses not to. (For example: Doing good deeds is one way to increase the rizk that is written for us and may also result in prolonged life in some cases if Allah wills)
If it is our intention to not make an attempt,
it is most likely that it is that intention which will be granted to us.
 
Serinity said:
I never said not to try to save life. you are misunderstanding me.

What I am saying - those who attempt with science to avoid death are but in delusion - everyone will die, and everyone will taste death.

And I don't find it right to INTENTIONALLY abort something, and use it for 'science'. Sounds inhumane. If it is possible to save a human life - or to let him live - who are we to prevent that?

There are those who do not fear Allah SWT and tries to make themselves young again, thinking they can escape death. When death comes, it will happen.

I don't think it is ethical to intentionally abort for scientific purposes.
Click to expand...

Again it's not about trying to get around death. Death is avoidable but if a child of 8 years old has cancer, should we treat him? Should we use the brains that Allah swt gave us and try to save his life? Or do we sit on our hands and do nothing for him and guarantee that he will die?

Allah swt gave us the ability to heal people. If an innocent old lady is stabbed in the chest, do we just let her bleed out and hope that Allah swt will save her life? No.. she will bleed out on the street and die.

Whether you accept it or not, Allah swt gave us (some of us) intelligence to make the world and mankind better and healthier. It seems that Allah is biased towards smart people... cross the road without looking and chances are you're going to get hit by a car... look before crossing and chances are you'll survive. Allah does not favour stupid people it seems.
 
Cpt.America said:
Good example is:

Anas ibn Malik reported: A man said, “O Messenger of Allah, should I tie my camel and trust in Allah, or should I untie her and trust in Allah?” The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Tie her and trust in Allah.”
Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 2517

Seeking medical treatment is tying our camel.

A person who does not seek cancer treatment may live for a long time and then die (as Steve Jobs did. He didn't get treatment for his pancreatic cancer)
And a person who did recieve treatment, may find themselves in remission and die.

The fact that death is unavoidable does not excuse us from failing to seek treatment.
Our bodies are a trust from Allah. It is our responsibility to Allah to keep them in good health.

Having a fatalistic view is unislamic. People with extreme fatalistic views are the ones who say that "What is the point of life, Allah already knows who will go to Jahannam and who will go to Jannah" and then choose not to work towards Allah, in effect choosing Jahannam for themselves.

Likewise, a person who is ill and has the means to take care of their bodies and chooses not to, is doing a disservice to Allah, and showing the intention of their choice. Allah is the One who prolongs life or chooses not to. (For example: Doing good deeds is one way to increase the rizk that is written for us and may also result in prolonged life in some cases if Allah wills)
If it is our intention to not make an attempt,
it is most likely that it is that intention which will be granted to us.
Click to expand...

Great post brother :)
 
EgyptPrincess said:
Again it's not about trying to get around death. Death is avoidable but if a child of 8 years old has cancer, should we treat him? Should we use the brains that Allah swt gave us and try to save his life? Or do we sit on our hands and do nothing for him and guarantee that he will die?

Allah swt gave us the ability to heal people. If an innocent old lady is stabbed in the chest, do we just let her bleed out and hope that Allah swt will save her life? No.. she will bleed out on the street and die.

Whether you accept it or not, Allah swt gave us (some of us) intelligence to make the world and mankind better and healthier. It seems that Allah is biased towards smart people... cross the road without looking and chances are you're going to get hit by a car... look before crossing and chances are you'll survive. Allah does not favour stupid people it seems.
Click to expand...

He is specifically talking about people such as [Ray Kurzweil] who are under the impression that immortality is achievable and seek to achieve it through medicine and technology. Such people are of course in error to assume that such a thing would be possible.

It is different than talking about healing.

Edited: I erroneously mixed Kurzweil with Richard Dawkins originally until I was corrected.
 
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EgyptPrincess said:
Again it's not about trying to get around death. Death is avoidable but if a child of 8 years old has cancer, should we treat him? Should we use the brains that Allah swt gave us and try to save his life? Or do we sit on our hands and do nothing for him and guarantee that he will die?

Allah swt gave us the ability to heal people. If an innocent old lady is stabbed in the chest, do we just let her bleed out and hope that Allah swt will save her life? No.. she will bleed out on the street and die.

Whether you accept it or not, Allah swt gave us (some of us) intelligence to make the world and mankind better and healthier. It seems that Allah is biased towards smart people... cross the road without looking and chances are you're going to get hit by a car... look before crossing and chances are you'll survive. Allah does not favour stupid people it seems.
Click to expand...

It is the belief of a Muslim that death is unavoidable - when Allah SWT decrees death - none can stop it. It is unavoidable at its written time and place.

Allah SWT gave us common sense, and we should try our best to survive with whatever means we have.

It isn't about being stupid or smart. Allah SWT will judge fairly. It is about having common sense.

Allah SWT will judge you based on what He SWT gave you, and what you chose to do. Allah SWT won't be biased in regards to who is smart or who is 'stupid'.

The one who crosses the road carelessly should blame himself. Similarily the one who does not seek treatment and dies should blame himself.

If one gets cancer - that is Qadr of Allah SWT. But Allah SWT gave us another Qadr which will prevent the other Qadr..

For example:

your house is on fire - that is what Allah SWT willed and decreed. But He SWT provided you with fire alarms etc. So if we don't take advantage of what Allah SWT gave us to survive. we have only ourselves to blame.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said any wrong. Ameen.

And Allah SWT knows best.
 
Cpt.America said:
He is specifically talking about people such as Richard Dawkins who are under the impression that immortality is achievable and seek to achieve it through medicine and technology. Such people are of course in error to assume that such a thing would be possible.

It is different than talking about healing.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I never implied to not seek treatment of which Allah SWT provided.

What I am saying is for those who do not fear Allah SWT, they'll think they can become immortal, or 'God'. and control the universe.

They attribute their success and abilities, what they achieve with science to themselves, thankless of Allah SWT. Thereby becoming arrogant and narrowminded.

For example, when they see something they could never even IMAGINE in the Creation of Allah SWT, they deludedly say 'what a coincidence' denying Allah SWT.
 
Cpt.America said:
He is specifically talking about people such as Richard Dawkins who are under the impression that immortality is achievable and seek to achieve it through medicine and technology. Such people are of course in error to assume that such a thing would be possible.

It is different than talking about healing.
Click to expand...

When has Richard Dawkins ever said that immortality is achievable? I don't really follow these kinds of people but nothing is immortal, even stars die eventually...

If you look throughout history the maximum lifespan of humans has increased dramatically.

23307aaa4c1c6476f3cd57a4077ccb5f-1.png


but achieving immortality would be something impossible in my opinion. The only way a human could live for hundreds or thousands of years is if we could somehow transfer our memories and consciousness to a computer. Which I think is impossible.

In a hundred years or so the average lifespan will probably be about 120 or so. Allah is giving us the means to live longer lives.
 
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In the Quran Allah SWT says that everyone will taste death, so immortality is out of the question.

In the time of Adam AS they lived way longer than us. So yeah.
 
Serinity said:
In the Quran Allah SWT says that everyone will taste death, so immortality is out of the question.

In the time of Adam AS they lived way longer than us. So yeah.
Click to expand...

Which is why I said it's impossible. It flies in the face of what Allah swt tells us. We know from science that even the universe itself will die which the Quran also says something similar.

"That Day We will fold up heaven like folding up the pages of a book. As We originated the first creation so We will regenerate it. It is a promise binding on Us. That is what We will do. (Qur'an, 21:104)"
 
afaik, Adam AS was very tall, and humanity degraded over time, by the will of Allah SWT.

There was something called 'bottleneck'.
 
Serinity said:
afaik, Adam AS was very tall, and humanity degraded over time, by the will of Allah SWT.

There was something called 'bottleneck'.
Click to expand...

Well there have been a few small occasions where mankinds average lifespan dropped due to extreme illness and war but as the graph grows, life expectancy has risen dramatically due to advancements in healthcare and medicine etc.
 

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