Still want to vote? -

[Far7an]

on one side you could say `we vote for the less of the evils`

Im sure you mean "less of the two evils" :shade:

or at least that is what I have been told

 

[S_87]

yup i think thats what my dad told me :thumbs_up

 

[S_87]

BUMP - everyone here needs to read this inshaAllaah

i ask
do these people know the severity of calling others infidels? is that what they do? mcb may be a bit yh but calling them munafiqs? i want a good answer on these people please

and number two

who is behind this site?

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Again, I will repeat that the majority of scholars agree that the Muslims should vote to bring about Islamic values.

Question:
The UK general election is coming up and I find myself harassed and called kafir by those who believe political participation is haram? What can we do to resolve this contentious issue? Why do Islamic authorities not do more to educate people that voting is not haram and it should be our duty to promote good government everywhere in the world?
What should I say to those that say voting is haram? I cannot help but feel they are harming the Ummah by doing nothing and encouraging others to do so too... thank you.

Answer:
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Imparting sound education and true Islamic consciousness is the only key. It is the duty of all imams, scholars and intellectuals in the west as well as other countries to make Muslims aware of the urgent need to take responsibility to change their conditions, and stop blaming others for their failures; unless we do so we will remain forever in the despondent state we are in.

Active participation in our communities is a religious duty we cannot run from.
Shaykh Ahmad Kutty

Question:
Are we allowed to vote in United States for non-Muslim candidates or laws, specially if we think those are better or less evil for Muslims and a more moral society.

Since only Allah(SWT) can be seen as the law-maker and we are discouraged from cooperating with the koffar, can we participate in the voting process at all? Is this a problem having to do with towheed, since our participation in voting may appear as a compromise in our faith or as acceptance of the way of the koffar (i.e. that people can vote to change laws).

Thank you.

Answer:
Voting in the United States is a part of the mechanism of administration and management. When you live in any town or city, your municipal affairs like sanitation, traffic, education, shopping, and police are all needed and the Muslim pays taxes for all these things. The only way we can utilize our rights after paying taxes is to go through polling system. Of course, our priority is to lessen damage that could happen to us, without which we are liable to big moral and physical losses. Nothing of that activity has to do with one's faith or deen. It is totally what we do with managerial and administrative work. The only thing a Muslim believes is haram is when we vote for or amend a law that is contradictive to Islam.

Good website backed with evidences rather than personal opinion and following of desires on the impermissibility of voting.

This did not seem like a very authorative website. I am not sure what you consider "evidences".

evidence from Quraan and sunnah?

Actually, that burden of proof rests on you. You have to prove that voting is haraam, because in islam, everything is halal unless otherwise stated.

So legalising prostitution , the consent age, nightclubbing, drinking, drugs - thats all helping establish islam?

Actually you've just proven my point. These are all things which are against Islam, so we should vote against them! If we don't vote, then we are allowing this evil to become established, and we are sinning.

Dont forget the manifesto is what they show just to get you to vote so that their side can win! Once they are in power its a whole different story - everyone was witness to this with the labour party.

They will only show you one side of their policy.

That's hardly a reason not to vote! This kind of treachery only occurs because muslims don't vote so they care very little about our views. If all muslims began to vote, then we would have a huge influence on politics, and no party would dare to betray us. If they did, they wouldn't be able to get back in office.

Anyways, you asked for evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah, so I'll give it to you.

EVIDENCE THAT VOTING IS AN ISLAMIC DUTY​

​

3:104 Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.

Muslims are commanded to enjoin what is good and forbid what is bad. If we see an evil thing taking root in our country, then we must forbid it and take action against it. We must vote for the good and against what is bad. We cannot be silent and allow evil to become established, that is against the Qur'an.

For example, if a party is known to be hateful to muslims, we should vote against them, and vote for those who are loyal to Muslims.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand [by taking action]; and if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out]; and if he cannot, then with his heart [by feeling that it is wrong] _ and that is the weakest of faith." (Narrated by Muslim, 49)

In non-muslim countries, we see many things that are being done wrong. Why is it that we do not take action? What prevents us from actiing upon this hadith? We should stop the evil with our hands, by using our hands to cast the vote- a vote against kufr, and a vote for Islam.

 

[General_Mujahid]

Salaam brother.

I've seen this before brother, and i shall explain it as quickly as possible.

You gave this hadeeth.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand [by taking action]; and if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out]; and if he cannot, then with his heart [by feeling that it is wrong] _ and that is the weakest of faith." (Narrated by Muslim, 49)

yes i know of this hadeeth Very clearly and know how Important it is.
However, you have taken this hadeteh out of context.

let me explain, yuor argument is that by voting against let';s say labour you are enjoining the Good and Forbidding the evil. This is incorrect.

If you read my posts on the other thread you can see clearly that voting for a Kuffr system is Sinful. And you seem to forget to mention that. Sure you are voting against labour and eg.. you are voting for Liberal Democrats. You ares til voting for a kuffr Implementation of laws other then that Which Allah (s.w.t) has revealed, so the method you have blatently taken this hadeteh out fo context.

Let me give an example of what you are saying here:
Imagine i am an undercover and need to infiltrate a gang. I need to Enjoin the Good and forbid the evil meaning i need to stop this gang from comitting sins ( drugs ect...) and arrest them. Does that mean, to achieve this, you are allowed to take drugs yourself?

For me to act as one of them and be a aprt of this gang, i must also take drugs. So you are sayin that i am allowed to take drugs as long as my intentions are to arrest these guys because that is forbidding the evil. What you are forgetting that the method i am USING to forbid the evil is Sinful.

Same way voting for a certain pKuffr Party to get rid of another, you are trying to forbid an evil through Sinful means.

I await yuor reply.

ma'salaama

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

yes i know of this hadeeth Very clearly and know how Important it is.
However, you have taken this hadeteh out of context.

I assure you I have never intentionally taken a hadith or ayat out of context. I have quoted the entire matn as it appears in the Islamic texts. If you could show me ottherwise, I would appreciate it.

If you read my posts on the other thread you can see clearly that voting for a Kuffr system is Sinful.

I assure you, that if there was a vote as to whether we should have a "hufr system" or an Islamic system, we muslims would vote for the Islamic system. We are NOT voting for a kufr system when wer cast our vote in non-muslim countries. We are voting for Islamic values to be implemented gradually to replace the "Kufr system". Our duty as Muslims is to spread the light of Islam. We can't accomplish that by hiding in our homes. We need to vote so that we have an Islamic influence in these countries.

And you seem to forget to mention that. Sure you are voting against labour and eg.. you are voting for Liberal Democrats. You ares til voting for a kuffr Implementation of laws other then that Which Allah (s.w.t) has revealed,

Please elaborate. I fail to see how voting for Islamic values constitutes voting against what Allah swt has revealed.

As a matter of fact, I have supported my position with what Allah swt has revealed, while it is interesting to note that the opponenets of voting have not supported their side with any islamic evidence.

so the method you have blatently taken this hadeteh out fo context.

Again, I ask you to demonstrate to me what remains of the hadeeth that I have left out.

Let me give an example of what you are saying here:
Imagine i am an undercover and need to infiltrate a gang. I need to Enjoin the Good and forbid the evil meaning i need to stop this gang from comitting sins ( drugs ect...) and arrest them. Does that mean, to achieve this, you are allowed to take drugs yourself?

The analogy is flawed in itself because of a number of reasons:
-Muslims were sent by the Prophet Muhammad saws to live oin non-muslim lands, hence it is permissable to live in a non-muslim country. Meanwhile, It is not permissable to join a gang.
-Intoxicants are prohibited, while voicing Islamic values is an obligation

What you are forgetting that the method i am USING to forbid the evil is Sinful.

You would first have to prove that voting is haraam, before we can accept such a notion.

On this issue, Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Saalih Al-Munajjid says:

It may be the case that the interests of Islam require Muslims to vote so as to ward off the greater evil and to reduce harmful effects, such as where two candidates may be non-Muslims but one of them is less hostile towards Muslims than the other, and Muslims’ votes will have an impact on the outcome of the election. In such cases there is nothing wrong with Muslims casting their votes in favour of the less evil candidate.

In any case, this is the matter of ijtihaad based on the principle of weighing up the pros and cons, what is in the interests of Islam and what is detrimental. With regard to this matter, we have to refer to the people of knowledge who understand this principle. We should put the question to them, explaining in detail the circumstances and laws in the country where the Muslim community is living, the state of the candidates, the importance of the vote, the likely benefits, and so on.

No one should imagine that anyone who says that it is OK to vote is thereby expressing approval or support for kufr. It is done in the interests of the Muslims, not out of love for kufr and its people. The Muslims rejoiced when the Romans defeated the Persians, as did the Muslims in Abyssinia (Ethiopia) when the Negus defeated those who had challenged his authority. This is well known from history. Whoever wants to be on the safe side and abstain from voting is allowed to do so. This response applies only to elections for influential positions. And Allaah knows best.

Hence, you're condemnation of voting is against the Ijmaa of the scholars.

 

[sonofadam]

Hence, you're condemnation of voting is against the Ijmaa of the scholars.

Lots of scholars also disagree so it cant be Ijmaa.

This did not seem like a very authorative website. I am not sure what you consider "evidences".

The site is still under construction, but still has articles on the kufr of voting referenced with verses from Quraan etc. - maybe thats not enough evidence for some.

With regards to voting and in particular legislating one of Allah (SWT)’s attributes is AL HAKIM meaning the only law-giver. So if anyone who legislates laws that are that are not from qur’an and sunnah, then this person becomes a taghoot (a falsr god/deity) as only Allah is AL HAKIM the One who legislates Law. There are many verses of the qur’an to prove that Allah (swt) is the only law giver “The hukm (legislation) is for none but Allah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him, that is the straight religion, but most men know not” (Yoosuf 12:40) and “And He makes none share in His decision and rule (hukm)” (Al-Kahf 18:26)

These verses of the qur’an prove without doubt that only Allah has the right of making laws that should be followed by man. And we as muslims can not obey any Laws that have been legislated by other than ALLAH. “Or do they have partners with Allah to legislate for them in the deen what Allah does not allow” (ash Shoora 42:21) and “And eat not of that on which the name of Allah is not pronounced, for surely that is fisq (an act of disobedience). And verily the Shayaateen inspire their friends (from mankind) to argue with you. And if you obey them then you would indeed be mushrikoon” (Al-An’am 6:121)

All these verses prove that if we take someone as a law giver besides Allah (SWT), then we would be guilty of committing major shirk with Allah. Now if a person is voting to elect a certain political party into power, which will implement kufr laws. Then not only is he recognising the taghoot, but he/she is giving the party the power to become the taghoot and to implement kufr.

Even scratching the surface and not going into too much detail on the topic of Allahs Names and Attributes prove the misguidance of voting for man made law - Shirk in the Names and Attributes of Allah. (Shirkul Asmaa was Sifaat) Allah is Al Haakim, Al Hakeem, Al A’leem (The All Knowing), Al Khabeer (The All Aware), Al Wakeel (The Disposer of Affairs), Al A’dil (The Just), Al Kaafi (The Sufficient), Al Malik (The King), An Naasir (The Helper), Al Waali (The Governor and Ally) So the one who turned to man in order to legislate for him and to guide him in lifes affairs in contradiction to tawheed has rejected many of the Names and Attributes of Allah and by this he entered into shirk with regards to these attributes so that he considered man made law more just than the law of Allah and did not consider the shari’ah as sufficient for legislation and guidance. Allah (swt) said “Most of them do not believe in Allah except that they join partners with Him” (Yoosuf 12:106) and “That He may punish the hypocrites men and women and the mushrik men and women those who have an evil opinion of Allah…” (al Fath 48:6) and “Surely Allah will not forgive the association of partners with Him, but He forgives less than that of whomever He wishes.” (an Nisaa’ 4:48)

Also if we look at the methodology adopted by the Prophet (saw), the Nabi (saw) united the Muslims under tawheed and fought against shirk verbally and physically and always governed by shari’ah, he never sought judgement from kuffaar in contradiction to the revelation. Allah (swt) says “And whoever contradicts and opposes the messenger after the right path has been shown clearly to him and follows a way other than that of the believers, We shall keep him in the path he has chosen and land him in Hell, what an evil destination.” (an Nisaa’ 4:115). The Nabi (saw) also never compromised, When the mushrikoon of the Quraysh sought Nabi (saw) to compromise the exclusive call to tawheed Nabi (saw) rejected their call and sooratul kaafiroon was revealed which gave the clear answer “Say: O you disbelievers! I worship not that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way and to me mine” (al Kaafiroon 109:1-6)and “And whoever seeks a deen other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers.” (aali I’mraan 3:85) and “So obey not the deniers. They wish that you should compromise with them so they would compromise with you.” (al Qalam 68:8-9)

Also the prohibition of obeying anybody accept in good throws the argument that we can stop some evil out of the window, so even if the man-made laws had agreed outwardly with the shari’ah this still would have been munkar as its motivation and intention was not to please Allah and not to obey Allah but only to arrange affairs to please people, business groups, political parties and to receive a salary. However, the laws contradicted Islam in its belief and details, they contradicted the belief by declaring that man should legislate and decide his own way of life and to separate all religion from education, politics and society. In the details they made halaal alcohol, riba, pornography, abortion, fornication, adultery, homosexuality, public indecency etc. Nawaas bin Sama’aan that Nabi (saw) said “There is no obedience to the creation in disobedience to the Creator.” (BAGHAWI in ‘Sharhus Sunnah’ [10/44] AHMAD, AL HAAKIM) and A’li reported that Nabi (saw) said “…There is no obedience in disobedience to Allah. Obedience is in Ma’roof.” (MUSLIM kitaabul Imaarah [no.4536], BUKHAARI [Eng vers. Vol. 9 no.259])

Hence the following fall within the aspects of Shirk -

1 Voting for man made legislation
2 Standing for election to legislate
3 Membership of a party that is established to legislate
4 Calling on people to support and vote for man-made legislation

Whoever has performed any of these acts then they should repent to Allah and try to inform others who they have previously called to these errors.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

If we were to accept the points of this article, we would have to accept that it is haraam to live in a non-muslim country. But as we know, the Prophet saws sent Muslims to luve under non-muslim rule, and the practice occured with the salaf as well.

And, I pointed out that no one is voting for the system itself, so based on that point, your entire argument collapses. We are voting for Islamic values to be established.

And lastly, I even showed you the quote from Shaykh Saalih Al-Munajjid. Your ijtihad cannot supercede the Ijmaa of the scholars. If he says that no one can call muslim voters committing kufr or shirk, then that's it. Unless you are saying that he is misguided in his fatwa. If you are not saying that he is misguided, then you must cease this campaign against voting.

 

[Celestial]

salaam

If we were to accept the points of this article, we would have to accept that it is haraam to live in a non-muslim country

i would to mention one thing to you brother and that is: we are allowed to move to a kufr country, HOWEVER under one condition and that is that we spread that religion of Allah. under no other circumtances can we move to a kufr country.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Yes, and on this topic, Shaykh Khalid Al-Maajid says

There should be a legitimate need for settling in their country, which cannot be met in the Muslim lands, such as trade, da’wah, officially representing a Muslim country, or seeking knowledge that is not available in a Muslim country either because it does not exist there, or what is available is not of good quality. Or there should be fear of death, prison or torture, not mere harassment, for oneself or for one’s family and children, or fear for one’s wealth.​

And doubtlessly, if one is going to stay there, then they should have the intention to establish Islamic values and bring about change in the system, which is accomplished by voting.

What I don't understand is why someone would live in a non-muslim country if they don't want to vote? The claims that it is submitting to kufr rule means that these Muslims who hate voting should not be living in western countries, because they are "submitting to kufr rule" themselves! If they don't want to vote, they should go to a muslim majority country.

 

[sonofadam]

If we were to accept the points of this article, we would have to accept that it is haraam to live in a non-muslim country. But as we know, the Prophet saws sent Muslims to luve under non-muslim rule, and the practice occured with the salaf as well.

And, I pointed out that no one is voting for the system itself, so based on that point, your entire argument collapses. We are voting for Islamic values to be established.

And lastly, I even showed you the quote from Shaykh Saalih Al-Munajjid. Your ijtihad cannot supercede the Ijmaa of the scholars. If he says that no one can call muslim voters committing kufr or shirk, then that's it. Unless you are saying that he is misguided in his fatwa. If you are not saying that he is misguided, then you must cease this campaign against voting.

What Ijmaa of the scholars? and as for your absurd statement

If he says that no one can call muslim voters committing kufr or shirk, then that's it.

is Saalih Al-Munajjid a Prophet getting revelation from Allah? Is he not human who can make a mistake? Honestly what a stupid statement and for the record I do believe he is misguided in this issue.

We are voting for Islamic values to be established.

Yeah....such as the bombing of Afghanistan, Iraq, support of the illegal Zionist state of so-called 'Israel' (may Allah destroy it) and the rest of the puppet Kaafir states, and recognition of same sex marriages, fornication/adultery, freedom to insult Allah, His Prophets (like Salman Rushdie did - may Allah give him a painful death) etc, and many other 'values'....yeah...why not vote for such upright values and principles....some people need to wake up.

 

[Khattab]

Yeah we should sit back and not do anything, get rolled over and when Allah (SWT) questions us regarding what we did to prevent further attacks on our muslim brethern, we will say nothing, we had no voice in the country we lived, we didnt vote and put our points forward. Instead we lay down, and put none of our views across. You need to stand up or you arent heard, we need push these politicians and hold them to there word of what they say, when it comes to dealing with issues close to the muslims. I go with the majority of the scholars and common sense, which says vote.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

is Saalih Al-Munajjid a Prophet getting revelation from Allah? Is he not human who can make a mistake? Honestly what a stupid statement and for the record I do believe he is misguided in this issue.

I find this quite amusing, since you were the one throwing his fatwas at me before when I was only quoting Qur'an and Hadith, and now you turn around and call him misguided!

And I don't know how you can say he is misguided on this issue since the same ruling has been given by multiple committees of scholars around the world. This is definitely the Ijmaa' because you can't even show me ONE reliable scholar who states otherwise!

Yeah....such as the bombing of Afghanistan, Iraq, support of the illegal Zionist state of so-called 'Israel' (may Allah destroy it) and the rest of the puppet Kaafir states, and recognition of same sex marriages, fornication/adultery, freedom to insult Allah, His Prophets (like Salman Rushdie did - may Allah give him a painful death) etc, and many other 'values'....yeah...why not vote for such upright values and principles....some people need to wake up.

You need to wake up, because Muslims aren't going to vote for these things, they'll vote against them!

Again, you've proven my point. If we stay silent like you suggest, all the evil you've listed above will happen. But if we take action, by voting, we can prevent this from happening, and allow an Islamic influence on these countries,

 

[S_87]

sonofadam you never answered my question
WHO is behind that site?

 

[ahm]

You got one candidate A supporting gays, but does not want to kill Muslims, no occupation etc.

Another candidate B is against gays, abortion etc., but is in favour of killing Muslims and occupation.

If you don't vote A, then candidate B will get in power.

What do you do?

 

[sonofadam]

And I don't know how you can say he is misguided on this issue since the same ruling has been given by multiple committees of scholars around the world. This is definitely the Ijmaa' because you can't even show me ONE reliable scholar who states otherwise!

There is no Ijmaa - only misguided people with diseased hearts talking from their desires. For your information lets see what one of Saalih Al-Munajjid's former teachers has to say on the subject.
The disbelief (kufr) of electing legislators besides Allah.
The Fatwa of Shaykh ‘Abdullah bin Muhammad al-Ghunaymaan.
The Shaykh, may Allah (swt) preserve him, says: “All creatures are the slaves of Allah (‘ibaad Allah), the Majestic and High, and He created them so that they may become worshipers of Allah, the Majestic and High. The slave must act according to the commands of His Master and a follower of His Speech and Shari’ah (Law), and not (become) a lord or a rival to Him in the legislation (tashree’a) and the judgment (hukm) between the creation. If he is like this, (then) he becomes a competitor with Allah to the same degree that Fir’awn (Pharaoh) and his fellow greater tawagheet did (i.e. those things which have transgressed the limits of Tawheed and are worshipped besides Allah).”
He also said: “And concerning that which makes a creature, which the people establish, choose and say that ‘this act is on my behalf’ or ‘I chose this’ – after which he becomes a legislator of laws which he judges by – (then) he came with something which negates his iman (belief) and he must review himself and seek repentance so he does not fall into shirk, which is the greatest of sins.”

Those who elect legislators along with Allah claim they do so because their intention is not to make them partners with Allah, but rather reformers. The answer of the Shaykh concerning this question which was addressed to him (is as follows): “If one does an action which is the opposite of the Shari’ah, his intention does not benefit him. The one who elects the legislator and (then) he says, ‘I only elect him to become a reformer’, although the action of this legislator is to be a partner along with Allah in terms of His legislation, which is against the Book of Allah and His legislation – (then) verily, the hukm (legislation) is for none but Allah (swt). However, the intention may be accepted if the action is permissible within the Shari’ah.

He also said, may Allah preserve him, “Yes, if a person knows that he elected this person so he can become a legislator, and he knows that (the right of) legislation is for none but Allah alone, the Majestic and High, and he said, ‘I want this person (as a legislator) because I know that he is a righteous person and he will establish righteousness which will prevent the Mufsideen (those who cause corruption) from taking over, and therefore I elect this person’, that will indeed not benefit him.”

He also said, “Although he claims his intention is righteous, it will not benefit him, even if it is righteous. This is because electing him on this basis is not permissible, and due to that he has fallen into a negating factor from among the negating factors of belief (iman).”

He also said in his answer to the question that if the person enters in legislative council and said he will not start legislating and will not practice any forms of legislation, but will only take the position of legislation (what is the ruling upon such a person)? He said, may Allah preserve him: “If he enters the government which consists of legislation and laws, he is surely content with it, and being content with laws from other than Allah, the Majestic and High, is kufr (disbelief). For example, if he allowed himself to become a legislator, that in itself is not only kufr, but he also becomes one of the heads of the tawagheet; and the tawagheet are many. He is one of the tawagheet because he lets the hukm be with him and not with Allah, the Majestic and High.”

He said, may Allah have mercy upon him, in an advice he gave to the voter (for man-made law): “My advice to you is to cling to the commands of this deen (religion), and to be steadfast upon the Tawheed of Allah (swt). And if you fall short of this, (then) you must repent and seek refuge and renew your iman. And the world does not benefit you, so the person must leave these matters and renew his deen should he have fallen into one of the negating factors which negate iman.”

Regarding the validity upon praying behind those voters who elect creatures in the position of legislation, he said, may Allah preserve him: “If one has fallen into that and he knows; praying behind him is not valid. One must pray behind those who have correct ‘aqeedah (creed/belief) and have not fallen into one of the negating factors which negate iman.”

[Taken from a recorded lecture delivered by Shaykh al-Ghunaymaan entitled: ‘And (agree) that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah.’ (Aali ‘Imraan 3:64)]

Other ‘ulema (scholars) who support Shaykh al-Ghunaymaan in what has been mentioned above include Shaykh Muhammad al-Ameen ash-Shinqiti, Shaykh Muhammad bin Ahmad al-Furraaj, Shaykh Naasir al-‘Umar, Shaykh al-Muhaddith Abu Ayyub al Barqawi, Imam Abu ‘Isa ar-Rifa’ee and many others. We will now cite some of what they have said:

Shaykh al-Qahtaanee said: “Because the source of (the legislation in) democracy is the people, then what remains for Allah (swt)? Therefore, democracy, which is built upon this, is definitely kufr (disbelief) which takes you out of Islam…Democracy, by the definition of its people, is clear kufr (kufr buwaa).”

Shaykh ‘Abdullah as-Sad also said: “There is no doubt that democracy is kufr (disbelief), and I ask Allah (swt) to take us away from these things…The people of democracy will not allow you to join them unless you swear to act according to their law, and this is kufr (disbelief). Those people who implement Shaytaan’s law, and who call for democracy and elections, they only want to attract the anger of the Muslims…”

Shaykh Bishr al-Bishr also said: “If anyone is given the right to make law, his is a taghut (false god) because he is calling the people to worship him.”

Shaykh ad-Deebaan said, “From what I know about the Parliament, it is a committee (gathering) of tawagheet and it is not permissible for anyone to enter this on the basis of ‘benefit’ (maslaha) for the Muslims…”

There are also many other scholars who support this view.

As for your statement -

You need to wake up, because Muslims aren't going to vote for these things, they'll vote against them!

this proves how little you understand the nature of the parliamentary system and how little effect the so called 'Muslim' vote will have on policy making due to their small numbers. As a matter of fact the so-called 'Muslim' MP for Birmingham voted for the bombing of Iraq when it came to voting for military action in parliament in 2003 - eventhough he had the option to abstain. Is this your idea of voting against them....wake up. This method is only adopted by the ignorant and with those with diseased hearts polluted with hypocrisy.

 

[S_87]

who is behind the siteeeeeeeeeeee?

 

[ABDULLAH SAOOD]

Inshallah we should vote and do our bit - I have pasted an article that may be on interest

ELECTIONS AND MUSLIMS - AN ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE

An Islamic perspective Before we embark on the issue of whether Muslims will
be permitted or not to vote in the forthcoming General Elections, it would
be appropriate to bring the significance of voting in the light of Shariah
to the fore:-

The Significance Of Voting In The Light Of The Shariah

The elections should not be considered lightly as merely a game or a worldly
pursuit wherein someone wins and someone loses. It should not be perceived
as being a vic- tory or loss in terms of worldly and material gain alone.
Beneath all this machinery and mechanism of the voting and electoral process
there is also the spiritual aspect of either abiding by or transgressing the
Divine Laws Of Shapiah.

In the light of Shariah, casting of votes bears the hallmark of very
important responsibilities viz:

I. Voting as a form of testimony (Giving Shahadah):

Firstly, voting is a testimonial. By voting for a certain candidate or
party, the voters are indirectly testifying to the credibility of that
candidate or party. We, as voters, would be certifying that the party in
whose favour we are casting our votes is capable of delivering the goods in
as far as Islamic values and ideas are concerned. That party will endeavour
and fight for the preservation and survival of our Islamic Beliefs, Laws,
Norms and Values. It will not interfere with our Beliefs and Places of
Worship. It will give us the freedom and right to implement rulings and
judgements in religious issues in accordance with Muslim Personal Law. It
will uphold Islamic values such as eradicating oppression and fostering good
character, peace and harmony among the people.

II. Choosing 'Lesser of two evils ' if confronted with a choice:

As we are in a unique situation where all the parties are non-Islamic and
secular parties will not be able to guarantee all our Islamic requirements
and demands in their entirety. It would be naive to expect that Perhaps,
some party will oblige by guaranteeing most of them, in which case the voter
could then opt for a decision less detrimental to Deen. Rasulullah
(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) has said.

[ Arabic text ]

Translation: He who is confronted with two crucial decisions, should opt for
the decision that is less detrimental [Kashful-khina Lil-Ajlooni vol 2, 322
and Asraarul-Mar-fooaah, Mulla Ali Qari 323).

III. Voting for a party less capable of fulfilling the rights of Muslims is
a breach of trust (Amanah):

Since seeing that voting is a testimony (giving Shahadah) and being aware
that a particular party will be more willing to fulfil our Islamic rights,
not to vote for this party will he tantamount to transgression and breach of
trust in the eyes of Shariah. Voting for a party that is less sympathetic to
the Islamic cause would not only mean giving false evidence (which is a
sin), but it could also mean becoming an instrument and tool of ensuing
havoc, and corruption caused by that party in as far as the complete
disregard of Islamic values and ideas is concerned.

IV. Voting and bribery (Rishwah):

One should also take cognisance of the fact that it has virtually become a
norm of the elections-albeit a corrupted norm that in order to woo voters,
parties tend to offer bribes in exchange for votes. Such bribery should be
rejected with the contempt it deserves. Voting should he based on total
integrity and sincerity wherein priority should he given to upholding the
torch of Islam. The honour and dignity of the Muslims should he maintained
at all times. The Deenul-Islam entrusted to us by Allah Ta'ala should be
viewed not only as a boon but also as an awsome responsibility; hence
extreme caution and diligence should be exercised in keeping its prestige
aloft. One cannot surrender ones Islamic ethics for the sake of pittance of
the Dunya. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) has warned us in a
Hadith that a time will come when a Muslim will sell his Deen for a few
coppers. Hence, if a Muslim exercises his right of voting, he should do so
keeping the consequences of the Hereafter in mind and not regard it as
something to he done impromptu merely because it is a custom of the times or
because ulterior motives can he achieved thereby.

V. Voting as a form of intercession (Shafaat):

Another aspect attached to voting is that it is a form of intercession. In
other words, the voter intercedes for a certain party to come into a
position where it can wield its power to acquire religious and other basic
rights for the masses. Regarding intercession the Qur'an declares:

[ Arabic text ]

Translation: Whosoever intercedes with a good intercession, his shall be a
portion there-from and whosoever intercedes an ill intercession his shall be
a responsibility thereof." (Al Qur'an 4:85)

The ideal intercession in an electoral process would be to intercede on
behalf of the party deemed most likely to safeguard Islamic rights in
particular and human rights in general. Incorrect and misleading
intercession would mean voting and interceding for a party that would be
unsympathetic to the tenets and requirements of Islam. For instance, it
would not be permissible to vote for a party that shows complete
indifference to Islamic Personal Law or/and clings to the now medieval
policy of discrimination on the basis of colour and race; as such policies
and doctrines are in total conflict with Islamic teachings. Interceding for
such a party would mean becoming a tool of oppression and injustice.

VI. Voting must not be an aid to injustice:

Allah Ta'ala says in the Qur'an:

[ arabic ]

Translation: "And assist one another in acts of righteousness and piety and
do not assist one another in act of transgression and sin." (Al-Qur'an 5:2)

[ arabic ]

Translation: "I do not wish to be an aid to the wrong-doers." (Al-Qur'an
28:17).

Commenting on the latter verse Allamah Qurtabi rahmatullahi alaih writes in
his tafseer:

[ arabic ]

Translation: "Ataa rahmtiillahi alaih has said regarding this verse that it
is not permissible to render any assistance to a tyrant and an oppressor."
Allamah Ourtabi rahmatullahi alaih further goes on to quote a Hadith in
which Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) has said: 'Whosoever walks
with an oppressed person in order to assist him with his problems, Allah
Ta'aala will, on the Day of Qiyamah keep the feet of such a person firm on
the Pul-Siraat while the feet of others will be faltering. On the other
hand, he who walks with an oppressor in order to assist him in promoting
acts of injustice, Allah Ta'aala will cause his feet to falter on the
Pul-Siraat on the Day when other feet will also falter.' After quoting this
Hadith, Allamah Ourtabi rahmatiulaahi alaih sums up:

Merely walking (or talking and negotiating for that matter) with an
oppressor is not in itself a crime and sin (especially when the motive is
to steer the oppressor away from4 acts of oppression); but it becomes a sin
when one begins to assist him in spreading oppression and tyranny because
this constitutes a flagrant violation."'(Tafseer-e-Qurtabi Vol 7, 4979).

In a Hadith Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) has sounded a grave
warning with regard to oppression:-

[ arabic ]

Translation:- "Whoever oppresses his brother (in this Dunya), whether it be
in the form of usurping someone's wealth or in any other manner, he should
compensate and make up for that; before a Day comes (the Day of Qiyamah)
when there will be no Dirham or Dinaar (money) at his disposal with which to
redeem himself There compensation will materialise in the form of righteous
deeds being taken from the oppressor (in proportion to the injustice
perpetrated) and given. If perchance the oppressor has no good deeds to his
credit, then the oppressed person's sins will be taken and thrown onto the
oppressor. (Sahih Bukhari; Mishkaat p.4351]

VII Voting as a form of representation:

Voting is also attached to the principle of representation. By voting for a
certain party, one is in essence appointing that party as a representative
for one's Islamic and human rights. Here too, extreme caution has to be
exercised. Only that party should be considered eligible for representation
that can strive for the implementation of our Islamic rights. Incorrect
representation will ultimately lead to corruption and depravity will not he
confined to mere individuals, but will have a broader effect on the Muslim
community as a whole.

VIII. Voting as a form of consultation (Mashwarah):

Shura means to give counsel. Thus a prospective voter is offering his
suggestion as to who, in his opinion is the most entitled to receive the
vote.

 

[Uthman]

That was an excellent and informative article. Jazak'Allah khair. That clears up a lot of things.

There is just one thing which I do not quite understand the meaning of.

It will give us the freedom and right to implement rulings and
judgements in religious issues in accordance with Muslim Personal Law.

Can somebody please help me to understand what this means?

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

There is no Ijmaa - only misguided people with diseased hearts talking from their desires.

You have now called Shaykh Munajjid misguided with a diseased heart. There really is no need to argue further on this since you've exposed yourself, calling the shuyukh misguided, etc.

For your information lets see what one of Saalih Al-Munajjid's former teachers has to say on the subject.

You are quoting from people who practically had no idea what voting is! They had no education of the political system in western countries. This is now based on hearsay, and hearsay is invalid evidence.

The Fatwa of Shaykh ‘Abdullah bin Muhammad al-Ghunaymaan.
The Shaykh, may Allah (swt) preserve him, says: “All creatures are the slaves of Allah (‘ibaad Allah), the Majestic and High, and He created them so that they may become worshipers of Allah, the Majestic and High. The slave must act according to the commands of His Master and a follower of His Speech and Shari’ah (Law), and not (become) a lord or a rival to Him in the legislation (tashree’a) and the judgment (hukm) between the creation. If he is like this, (then) he becomes a competitor with Allah to the same degree that Fir’awn (Pharaoh) and his fellow greater tawagheet did (i.e. those things which have transgressed the limits of Tawheed and are worshipped besides Allah).”

I agree with the above.

He also said: “And concerning that which makes a creature, which the people establish, choose and say that ‘this act is on my behalf’ or ‘I chose this’ – after which he becomes a legislator of laws which he judges by – (then) he came with something which negates his iman (belief) and he must review himself and seek repentance so he does not fall into shirk, which is the greatest of sins.”

I agree with the above as well. But neither of these quotes disprove voting!!

“If one does an action which is the opposite of the Shari’ah, his intention does not benefit him. The one who elects the legislator and (then) he says, ‘I only elect him to become a reformer’, although the action of this legislator is to be a partner along with Allah in terms of His legislation, which is against the Book of Allah and His legislation – (then) verily, the hukm (legislation) is for none but Allah (swt). However, the intention may be accepted if the action is permissible within the Shari’ah.

I agree with the above as well. But it has nothing to do with voting since we accept only the supremacy of Allah swt in legislation, not human beings!

Shaykh al-Qahtaanee said: “Because the source of (the legislation in) democracy is the people, then what remains for Allah (swt)? Therefore, democracy, which is built upon this, is definitely kufr (disbelief) which takes you out of Islam…Democracy, by the definition of its people, is clear kufr (kufr buwaa).”

Unfortunately, Shaykh Qahtanee's statement is not based on a solid understanding of democracy.

The same is true for the remaining statements you have provided.

this proves how little you understand the nature of the parliamentary system and how little effect the so called 'Muslim' vote will have on policy making due to their small numbers.

This is just down right ludicrous! On one hand you are forbidding Muslims from voting, while on the other hand you complain about the lack of influence we have in non-muslim countries!!

You don't become influential overnight. The Muslims are making rapid progress in establishing Islam in the west, but there is only one obstacle in their path - people like you. Those who go against the Ijmaa of the scholars and make haraam what Allah swt has made halal.

As a matter of fact the so-called 'Muslim' MP for Birmingham voted for the bombing of Iraq when it came to voting for military action in parliament in 2003 - eventhough he had the option to abstain.

Who cares? That proves nothing. Just because you can point to a so-called muslim who didn't do his duty, does that mean no one should do their duty?

The analogy is that we wish to defend a person from attack, but you prevent us from doing so by pointing out that once another 'Muslim' went to defend someone but instead killed him.

Poor argument.


And lastly, I will show you another fatwa on the issue of voting, from a scholar who has understanding of what voting is:

Shaykh Salman Al-Oadah:

I hold the opinion that it is lawful to participate in elections, as this may reduce suffering, and it is a way to choose the better among the availible candidates. I believe participating in elections will, in any event, contribute to the reduction of evil and be a forum for countering bad policies and exposing their deficiencies, as well as being an opportunity to present proposals of a different kind that may help people.​

Now I have provided you with the fatwa from both Islam-qa, and Islamtoday, sites with knowledgable scholars and authentic creed. The issue is very clear that voting is permissable, and often encouraged.