strange/troubling hadith are shaking my faith...

[Muslim Woman]

Walaykum as Salaam

Assalaamu Alaykum,

For people other than the OP, please avoid using the anonymous account as it leads to confusion. Jazakallaahu khayran.

time to start anonymous 1, 2 , 3 , 4 options ?

 

[Asiyah3]

Salaam,

I read some of your posts and their appear to be confrontational. Someone is asking for some clarification. Instead of attacking them personally, you need to address the particular question that they are asking.

Fine. I apologize. I didn't intend to attack or anything. My intention was only to help. I will edit that post.

If anyone finds any other posts of mine rude or confrontational etc. please let me know. We learn from our mistakes, insha'Allah.

 

[Snowflake]

Sis/Bro

I can understand how not understanding something shakes your belief. But you need to understand that much of our doubts come from not having sufficient knowledge about something. I used to question lots of things before Allah subhana wa ta' ala bestowed His favours on me and strengthened my imaan. Even to this day there are things I don't understand, and may never do. But they, in no way affect my belief in Islam. Especially as I now realize that everything I didn't understand before and questioned was due to my own lack of knowledge.


Have you read the passage from the Noble Quran where Shaytaan promises to mislead mankind to the Hell-Fire? If not I urge you to read the Quran with meaning insha Allah. The shaytaan is clever at making us doubt Allah and His deen. I sincerely advise that you read the Quran with transation insha Allah. The Quran by Allah's permission will give you whatever you hope to achieve by it. Read it for knowledge and you will gain that. Read it for shifa and it will become a source of shifa. Read it for reward and it will be as such insha Allah. We can read all the Islamic books, articles and hadiths in the world. But, until we read and understand the Quran, we will never taste the full sweetness of imaan. So please, make that your number one priority insha Allah.


And when you are confused about a matter, ask Allah to enlighten you. Because we can't see or hear Allah, we forget that He is the All-Aware and He sees, hears and knows everything we do, say or think. He is forever aware of our needs, so whenever you need anything, ask Him and He will respond in the way he knows to be best for you.

I also urge you to google the sciences of hadith. It will help you understand how hadith come to be classified as authentic. It was a long gruelling process, and not just something done on a whim.


Lastly, there is no reason whatsoever why Adam (as) could not have been 60 cubits talls. We see 'evidences' of all sorts of possiblities around us all the time. These are tell-tale signs that Allah can do whatever He wills. For instance compare the tallest man in the world with the smallest one. With Allah there is nothing that is impossible.

 

[anonymous]

Lastly, there is no reason whatsoever why Adam (as) could not have been 60 cubits talls. We see 'evidences' of all sorts of possiblities around us all the time. These are tell-tale signs that Allah can do whatever He wills. For instance compare the tallest man in the world with the smallest one. With Allah there is nothing that is impossible.

I don't think people are understanding what i mean when i say it would be impossible... i mean PHYSICALLY it wouldn't be possible. if he was still human, and still had our basic shape and structure, 90 feet tall would literally not be able to exist. others have mentioned that he could have been in a different form, or maybe he had different DNA... if thats the case though, i don't think we could still call him a man, right? he would then be a different creation from what i can tell. also, some have mentioned that giant animals have existed in the past... but i've yet to find any animal that was close to being 90 feet tall. thats just too big. the closest i've found was some kind of dinosaur that was about 100 feet LONG, but still not 90 feet tall... so i don't think one can use the size of other things in creation as evidence...

Also, i'm not in any way trying to doubt a hadiths authenticity... my only point is that based on my (albeit limited) research, this hadith, if taken literally, should not be true because of its physical impossibility. i've searched online, and it seems like the only people who argue for it being possible are the muslims who want to believe it. it is utterly rejected by those who study or have knowledge of the earths history, or physics... if someone can show me how this would actually be possible (with actual, trustworthy information and sources) then i would be very glad to see it... but i've been looking around for quite a while now, and it seems like there isn't any reason to think this aside from blind faith. this is basically my problem.

also, for those asking why i'm worried about something so minor... well, if in fact this hadith is authentic (which it seems to be), but there's reason to think it's false... then i consider that a big problem, and its what i'm here to try and solve.

however, some have also mentioned that the hadith IS in fact ambiguous, and that we don't know if adam was 90 feet tall on earth, or just in heaven when he was first created. like i said, if this interpretation is valid, then i can start to make sense of it all... again, i apologize for the question, since it seems to have created a bit of controversy.. but then again, i guess this is what the anonymous account is for.

 

[anonymous]

^btw, this is the OP again.

 

[Snowflake]

A 90ft man wouldn't be a man, he'd be another creation? Are people born with disabilites another creation? Are conjoined twins not human? I don't think anything anyone says is going to be of benefit, so I'm going to leave this matter with Allah as we can only advise. It is Allah who guides.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

i hope nobody takes offense, tries to belittle me, or dismisses my concerns here since i really am feeling troubled by all this. basically I've lately been coming across hadith that sound very strange. some disturbing, others just don't seem to make sense or they seem to clash with islam as a whole.

just recently i came across a hadith that, while not disturbing, caused me to have some doubt. it's the one that i believe is in bukhari, about the prophet adam being 90 feet tall. based on what i know, that size for a human being isn't supported by any evidence, and i don't think it's physically possible for a human to exist at that size. i heard another hadith that was about the prophet pbuh ordering people to kill lizards or geckos, saying there was a reward for doing so... why is this? doesn't this go against the general islamic rules about being kind to animals? these are just two examples of the most recent hadiths that i've found... but as i'm sure most of you know, we come across new hadiths every day, and i know i've come across others that i didn't understand... some even more confusing than these, and others that seemed disturbing or full of old superstitions.

its things like this that shake a persons faith, especially because they come from bukhari and muslim.. and those are supposed to be authentic right? if these are authentic, and our prophet pbuh was supposed to have actually uttered him... well, this is troubling... is there any advice for what to do when you come across things like this? any advice on how can i understand these things to be true? is there somewhere i can go to get trustworthy information about strange or troubling hadith? thanks in advance

Asalaamu Alaikum, Jazakallahu khayr for sharing your issues with us as it is knowledge that will enable us to gain clarity on any matter.

Firstly we must realise that we cannot rely on science to dictate to us what is and what is not possible. According to science God does not exist, does that mean we will believe science over our religion? According to science Jinn does not exist nor does angels. So how is it physically possible for Jinns and angels to exist? Can Science explain it?

How about the 7 heavens? We know from the Qur'an and hadith that they exist but can they really be explained scientifically? How do we know that one day they wont be discovered? Remember any discovery made is ONLY by the will of Allah. If he wills then certain discoveries will be made.

Science cannot explain something that has not been discovered yet. If we look at the time the Qur'an was revealed we will realise that the Qur'an contained many scientifc facts that has only been discovered recently. For example regarding sprem production, about the cerebelum, constellation of the stars, cloud structure, different water densities not mixing, mountains holding the land together and many more examples.

Now how do you think the people at that time who read such verses felt? They had never heard of such things before and at the time there was no such studies or technology to be able to make such discoveries. They simply beleived in what Allah had mentioned in the Qur'an to the best of their undrstanding. But now that we do have the technology we can confirm and attest to the facts in the Qur'an 1400 years ago and so we have a deeper understanding of those verses than those in the past could.

Sameway whilst right now there isn’t any evidence of the fact that Adam (As) was 90 feet tall there also is no evidence against it. So the same applies as it did in the past. We can only try and interpret it to the best of our ability and know that there are many possibilities to this. Just like the 7 heavens have not been discovered yet in the sameway Adam (As) bones have not been discovered yet. It may or may not be discovered in our time no one knows but Allah.

Maybe people used to be that gigantic but when Noah’s flood came and destroyed all the people, their bodies were washed up and there is no trace for archaeological findings. There are many possibilities.

There werent even that many people in those days so if they did all die then it would be highly unlikely they would be found but there is always a possibilty that they will.

Do you seriously beleive that everything in this Earch has already been discovered? We havent even scratched the surface yet. There is SO much yet to be discovered. Did you know there are still rainforests on Earth that have not even been explored yet? Did you know there are still MANY places in this Earth that have not even been discovered. So the potential for discovery is enormous. Scientific fact can be scientific fact today but tomorrow they may change completely.

Just recently they have discovered of many new pyramids in Egypt that are yet to be discovered buried in the desert and they only found out due to new satellite technology.

So the truth is that there is SO much yet to be discovered so whilst at the moment there is no proof or evidence for Adam (As) being 90 foot, yet there is also no proof or evidence against it.

So we should never rely on science to prove aspects of our religion because science is and always will chang depending on what is discovered. Everytime a discovery is made then science has to change accordingly whereas our religion has and always will remain the same until the end of times and the Qur'an and Sunnah has already been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that science is even confirming the facts in the Qur'an and Sunnah all of the time and to this day NOT one scientific fact in the Qur'an has been disaproved but has actually been proven to be correct.

So just like the seven heavens have not been discovered as yet then the same applies to the bones of Adam (As) yet we do not need these discoveries to be made to know that they are the truth because we know that they exist and it is ONLY by the will of Allah that they will ever be discovered by man. Looking at the potential for discovery there is always the possibility that they will be discovered if Allah wills.

And Allah knows best in all matters

 

[anonymous]

According to science God does not exist

But that's not actually true. science says nothing about God.

So the point i am trying to make is while there isn’t any evidence of the fact that Adam (As) was 90 feet tall there also is no evidence against it. There are many possibilities.

So the truth is that there is SO much yet to be discovered so whilst at the moment there is no proof or evidence for Adam (As) being 90 foot, yet there is also no proof or evidence against it.

but what i'm trying to say is that based on what i know, and what others have said regarding the matter... there does seem to be evidence against it. (that is, if you decide that adam was still a MAN like us, and that he roamed our earth... then problems arise, at least from the debates i've seen on different forums...

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

But that's not actually true. science says nothing about God.

Science and scientists are always trying to disaprove the existence of God. Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawking and many many other great scientists. There is no doubt that the majority of scientists do not believe in God and many of the works of the greatest scientists also attest to this fact.

but what i'm trying to say is that based on what i know, and what others have said regarding the matter... there does seem to be evidence against it. (that is, if you decide that adam was still a MAN like us, and that he roamed our earth... then problems arise, at least from the debates i've seen on different forums...

That is totally incorrect though what evidence is their against it? They are pure assumptions. As i mentioned in my last post there is NO evidence for or against the fact that Adam (As) was 90 foot tall.

I would personally say there is more evidence for because of the fact that there were many ancient huge temples and shrines found which only could have been used by much bigger humans. On top of that if Dinosaurs existed then how can big humans not have been able to walk the Earth?

Even if big humans were discovered it would be very worrying for scientists and would certainly disaprove their evolution theories. I would not be surprised if scientists went as far as to destroy such evidence.

Check this out. Do not know how real it is but though it was interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-8bVEIVUh8&feature=player_embedded

 

[جوري]

There is no doubt that the majority of scientists do not believe in God and many of the works of the greatest scientists also attest to this fact.

I don't think that the majority of scientists disbelieve in God .. having two or three vocal atheists who hold doctorate doesn't represent nor speak for the entire scientific community. In fact some studies attest that the majority of scientists do believe in God, but my personal opinion is that is a waste of resource, that is to run studies on people's beliefs as well for any scientist to use his authority in a field to branch out into a philosophical one. It simply can't be proven or disproven especially when comes to the origin of life..

 

[Alpha Dude]

But that's not actually true. science says nothing about God.

According to science God does not exist

The point is, there is no consensus on the existence of God. They haven't 'scientifically proven it'. So what we're saying here is, why give yourself grief on the matter of how they existed at that height, when you are believing in Allah without it having been proven to you 'scientifically' in the first place.

It's always going to be a matter of faith (but shouldn't be blind faith). Like dagless said, if you see 99 reasons to believe and come across one thing which doesn't make sense to you, surely the 99 parts would make you realise that the other thing must be true as well (even though you personally can't understand why).

If you go walking to Allah, he comes running to you. So be sincere, ask Allah for guidance from the depths of your heart and inshaAllah what you find confusing on this matter will be resolved.

 

[tigerkhan]

just recently i came across a hadith that, while not disturbing, caused me to have some doubt. it's the one that i believe is in bukhari, about the prophet adam being 90 feet tall. based on what i know, that size for a human being isn't supported by any evidence, and i don't think it's physically possible for a human to exist at that size.

if u are told that a man is alive in today world and his agess is 1400 years !!! would u blv ? surely it will be difficult to blv bcz we see nowadays a person after 100 years bcm much weak. but Quran says Noh AS preech for 950 years and his age was more than that. so things are diffrent in that time and even scinece is proving them. the ppl of saba were as tall as tree and i remember there was some pictures of that huge skelton in jordan and scientist says that was of ppl of saba...so its very clear that ppl of that was very tall and have long life.
thats much clear, so the the pbm i am seeing with u is, u have weak basic...so my humble request is plz first focus more on towheed, ahrra, janat, etc and then proceed further.
Abudulah Ibn Masood had siad, tahalum nal iman, suma tahalum nal quran.

 

[Dagless]

but what i'm trying to say is that based on what i know, and what others have said regarding the matter

Well nobody knows because we were not alive at that time.

... there does seem to be evidence against it.

How can there be evidence against something we have no knowledge of? The evidence is only based on us now.

(that is, if you decide that adam was still a MAN like us

A man, but at 90ft obviously not like us.

, and that he roamed our earth... then problems arise, at least from the debates i've seen on different forums...

Not exactly 'our earth' since the earth changes in terms of atmosphere, temperatures, etc. as time passes. It's not something we can know for sure.

Why isn't the explanation that he (pbuh) was 90ft in heaven acceptable?

 

[anonymous]

Why isn't the explanation that he (pbuh) was 90ft in heaven acceptable?

That explanation IS acceptable, but I wanted to know if that explanation was acceptable in and of itself... if it was a valid interpretation... Since most of the opinions i see are of Adam being 90 ft tall on earth, and then we gradually decreased in size over the years... this is the interpretation i (and others) havce issues with. also, i dont think people here are understanding what i mean about it not being possible, and that i should just have faith... 90 feet tall is TALL... i can't think of a single land animal (alive or extinct) that came close to that height... even animals that are tall are build differently in order to physically stay up and not fall apart. if adam was still a man, and was still shaped like us and proportioned like us, then 90 feet tall would be physically impossible to maintain (unless of course Allah (swt) suspended the laws of physics to accomodate adams size... i'm sure you can see how that is unlikeley though... also, about the evidence... i understand that we cant expect to find fossils, but if people of that size were roaming the earth, even if it was for a relatively short while, then there should be SOME signs, right? houses, tools, etc... (actually, while browsing the internet and forums looking for answers to this, i saw someone bring up an old scholar who had a similar observation about the lack of evidence towards giant people... i don't remember the scholars name though.. i think it was something like ibn hajr, or ibn hajar... i could be wrong though) although to be honest, i can't really imagine what they would build things with, since they'd be so incredibly big (try to imagine a 90 foot tall being anywhere and you'll see just how strange that would look)...

Sorry for disappearing for a while, i've been busy... but as you can see, this question is still bugging me, and i dont' feel like i've gotten a definite answer yet... please be patient with me, and thank you for all your responses so far.

 

[May Ayob]

That explanation IS acceptable, but I wanted to know if that explanation was acceptable in and of itself... if it was a valid interpretation... Since most of the opinions i see are of Adam being 90 ft tall on earth, and then we gradually decreased in size over the years... this is the interpretation i (and others) havce issues with. also, i dont think people here are understanding what i mean about it not being possible, and that i should just have faith... 90 feet tall is TALL... i can't think of a single land animal (alive or extinct) that came close to that height... even animals that are tall are build differently in order to physically stay up and not fall apart. if adam was still a man, and was still shaped like us and proportioned like us, then 90 feet tall would be physically impossible to maintain (unless of course Allah (swt) suspended the laws of physics to accomodate adams size... i'm sure you can see how that is unlikeley though... also, about the evidence... i understand that we cant expect to find fossils, but if people of that size were roaming the earth, even if it was for a relatively short while, then there should be SOME signs, right? houses, tools, etc... (actually, while browsing the internet and forums looking for answers to this, i saw someone bring up an old scholar who had a similar observation about the lack of evidence towards giant people... i don't remember the scholars name though.. i think it was something like ibn hajr, or ibn hajar... i could be wrong though) although to be honest, i can't really imagine what they would build things with, since they'd be so incredibly big (try to imagine a 90 foot tall being anywhere and you'll see just how strange that would look).

Salaam Anonymous;

Why are you disturbed by this Hadeeth? Be frank are you loosing your faith in God because you've read this Hadeeth.
One thing you should know is that God will not ask us about Prophet Adam's height it very irrelevent.
Also Adam's height is not one of the sentiments in the Articles of faith.
We follow the Qura'n first then the Sunnah, And there are many ahadeeth that are not accurate.
I think you should stop worrying about Prophet Adam's height, It's clearly not relevant and will certainly use your time in vain.
I don't see why it really matters how tall giant people were.. We don't have accurate historical facts about this either.
Ibn hajar is a human being in first place his words are not the words of God nor are they the words of His messenger PBUH so if he made a wrong judgement ( he will be rewarded for his effort) and If he made a correct judgement he will also be rewarded for his effort but this is not the case.
Never the less bear in mind that God is Capable of everything and If He wants something to be with a single command : Of merely saying Be) It will exist

I hope I wasn't hard on you, I also hope this helps

Salaam and Ramadhan Mubarak.

 

[Salahudeen]

There are many things in Islam that are beyond our comprehension and we can't understand them, and science has no explanation for them, the human soul is one of the those things, We have a soul that's driving our body like a person drives a car, can science prove we have a soul? Can they proove we don't have a soul? Brother Hamza gave plentiful examples of such instances, can science proove magic and jinn possession? but we believe in that. If we applied your principle and tried to find an explanation of how everything works then we would reject a lot of things in Islam because we don't understand how magic can influence a person, and many other examples exist of things that we don't understand the "how".

Look at this hadith and tell me what you think

"If there is any one of you flies fall in his drink he dip it and take it out, because one of its wings has a disease and the other contains the medicine" [Bukhari].

Many non muslims made fun of this hadith and mocked it saying how can this be true science hasn't proven this, flies are dirty things, but then what happened? New research showed it's actually true, many people when they read this hadith thought it was disgusting and didn't believe it because it was contrary to what they believed to be possible/true.

The problem is your basis for determining truth and falsehood is science/logic you're thinking to yourself "this can't be true because it's not possible according to science/logic so I need to find an explanation that fits with science/logic" but it is for this very reason people rejected Islam in the time of the prophet (pbuh) it wasn't logical/possible according to them that a poor man from among themselves is a prophet of God, it wasn't logical/possible for them that the Prophet went from Makkah to Jerusalem, then ascended through the 7 heavens to meet Allaah, then come back to Makkah all in one night. This isn't even possible in our times, how could the prophet (saw) have done this? We don't understand how but we believe in it because it's the truth.

If you asked me or any scientist how it was possible that a man travels to the heavens on a animal named al boraq they would not be able to explain to you how it took place, they would also not be able to explain how an illiterate man was able to produce a masterpiece in the arabic language it's not possible they would say and so if a person continues down this path he would eventually reject everything that he can not find an explanation for that makes sense to him.

Just like we can't understand how Gibrael filled up the entire sky when he appeared the prophet (saw) after the first revelation we can't understand the mechanics behind how Adam was so big. We can't understand how Gibrael opened the chest of the prophet (saw) and took his heart and washed it in a container, this isn't possible either is it, a person would die if you took their heart out of their chest but yet it happened and we believe in it without understanding "how" it's possible.

I know you don't like blind faith but that's what's required when we can't understand the how of things because the alternative is to reject, and when you reject things that you can't understand then you will reject much of Islam. You will reject many miracles because you can't understand how it's possible that they took place.

Another thing I can't understand is how angels are in the sky, the prophet (saw) said the sky is filled with angels and there's not an empty space, every space is filled with angels doing ruku or prostration to Allah, I can't understand what the angels are standing on in the sky or how they're doing sajdah in air but I believe in it because the prophet (saw) said it and for me to reject it because it doesn't conform with what little knowledge we have today would be wrong because Allah is the ultimate possessor of knowledge and to reject something because of the little knowledge that people have today would be foolish, the reason it's foolish is because nothing is absolute on Earth, before the Earth was flat today it's round. Who knows what discoveries they will make in another 100 years and you're going to reject this belief because the people of the Earth are saying it's impossible, rather listen and believe in the hadith of the prophet (saw) and give him priority over what the people of Earth tell you because they will eventually tell you what the prophet (saw) was saying all along as previous examples demonstrate.

You have revelation from Allah telling you things, the how we don't know, just as a thousand years ago they didn't understand the "how" of many things we understand today. But they still believed in the things they didn't understand how they could be possible.

 

[Alpha Dude]

An enormous jawbone found in Kazakhstan is further evidence that giant birds roamed - or flew above - the Earth at the same time as the dinosaurs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14466814

Nothing that will conclusively break your doubts, but it's interesting to see that they've found evidence of a giant bird when they thought there weren't any. "People have said there weren't big birds when there were big pterosaurs, but now we know there were."

Plus, they've only found two such examples so far. If we were to assume the human population during the giant days wasn't so much, it isn't hard to see why giant human fossils might not have been found.

 

[BenBa]

That explanation IS acceptable, but I wanted to know if that explanation was acceptable in and of itself... if it was a valid interpretation... Since most of the opinions i see are of Adam being 90 ft tall on earth, and then we gradually decreased in size over the years... this is the interpretation i (and others) havce issues with. also, i dont think people here are understanding what i mean about it not being possible, and that i should just have faith... 90 feet tall is TALL... i can't think of a single land animal (alive or extinct) that came close to that height... even animals that are tall are build differently in order to physically stay up and not fall apart. if adam was still a man, and was still shaped like us and proportioned like us, then 90 feet tall would be physically impossible to maintain (unless of course Allah (swt) suspended the laws of physics to accomodate adams size... i'm sure you can see how that is unlikeley though... also, about the evidence... i understand that we cant expect to find fossils, but if people of that size were roaming the earth, even if it was for a relatively short while, then there should be SOME signs, right? houses, tools, etc... (actually, while browsing the internet and forums looking for answers to this, i saw someone bring up an old scholar who had a similar observation about the lack of evidence towards giant people... i don't remember the scholars name though.. i think it was something like ibn hajr, or ibn hajar... i could be wrong though) although to be honest, i can't really imagine what they would build things with, since they'd be so incredibly big (try to imagine a 90 foot tall being anywhere and you'll see just how strange that would look)...

Sorry for disappearing for a while, i've been busy... but as you can see, this question is still bugging me, and i dont' feel like i've gotten a definite answer yet... please be patient with me, and thank you for all your responses so far.

Mashaallah,brother or sister, you have something i dont have, strong nerves.
Even though i like Muslim brothers and sisters .. they being so adamant to not use their brains drives me crazy. Now lets just take a moment to think why Allah has sent Islam.. because christians and jews added stuff to their religion. And corrupted their beliefs, even changed the books. And Allah swears in Quran that Quran will not be changed. But, there are always other ways to create fitnah and make a religion who gives so much importance to thinking (in Quran its highlighted many times that one should look at creations and should think) and celebrates reasoning (Like in Hz. Ibrahim's story, he kept reasoning to find the truth.. and tried to make his people reason too.. by asking them rhetorical questions.. which rang a bell in their mind but then they adamantly turned back to their traditions) turn into something in which the followers just read words of people and believe them as if its Allah s word and push others to believe as well ... Well, sister or brother.. i dont know your stand about hadiths but.. i would just say consider questioning at least some of them. It wouldnt make you a sinner inshaallah, for that definition of Islam does not require believing every other hadith we hear. And questioning is the way we pray Allah to give his guidance

 

[Insaanah]

^ Welcome to the forum.

May I ask, what made you dig out a thread over four years old as your first post?

 

[BenBa]

Thanks. Well i actually was googling something and it directed me to this very page. Not to the forum,i mean to this thread. And replying that anonymous sister/or brother was the reason i registered to the forum. Because i felt like i have to say something about it, seeing all the "dont question but believe" medieval behaviour.