stylish beards

[Muezzin]

Sis some men cant grow beards

But some women can

Anyway, judge not lest ye be judged and all that eh? Let's all just get along.

 

[Usmansaab]

lol

it is REALLY rare for a woman to go a beard unless they use some chemicals to make them grow one or sumin like tht lol

 

[Mu'maneen]

Who knows...maybe these brothers are more sincere in there worship to Allah, than a man with a long beard.

We all struggle with our eman,,it goes up and down...may Allah help us all..ameen.

My dear sister, it is better that we safeguard our tongues from the hellfire, and instead of speaking about them, make dua for them.

pls forgive me if i have offended u..

Dear Sister, the beard is 100% Fard, so whoever shaves off his beard is committing Haram.
So a man who shaves off his beard, cannot be classified as having strong Eman as one who has strong Eman will be scared in disobeying Allah in major acts, such as shaving off the beard.


---------------------

Visit my new Islamic Site:
http://hstrial-besmail.homestead.com/islam.html

WIN A PRIZE NOW!
http://www.islamic-faith.net/111.html

 

[Aly]

:sister: I have noticed unislamic acts among muslims. Especially in nasheed artist they are meant to be a role model for our next generation. E.g sami yusuf, does his beard ever grow?? Its seems as if he is trimming it everytime. Another example zain bhika, more like a box beard!! Alhamdulilah yusuf islam is perfect!! Am i back chatting?? may allah(swt) forgive, am just trying to solve the matter. As we are meant to follow are prophet muhammad(saw) his our guidance to jannah!! But wot r we doing? I knw am a girl, raising a issue lyk this am just curious!! hope i am not offending anyone. Same with jilbaabs, ppl are doing certain thing are not respecting what they are weaing!!

Hmmm again i will say we should make stylish beard if we wanna make beard then make it properly but here come again that there is nothign written that you must have beard in islam ,i do accept that its part of islam but its not necessary to have it .

 

[Aly]

Hmmm again i will say we should make stylish beard if we wanna make beard then make it properly but here come again that there is nothign written that you must have beard in islam ,i do accept that its part of islam but its not necessary to have it .

i mean not say on ist line should not lolzzzzzzzz :giggling:

 

[Aly]

i mean not say on ist line should not lolzzzzzzzz :giggling:

omgggg i mean noooooo wots happening wid me

 

[SirZubair]

Anyone thought about practical reasons why people might like to cut their beards shorter than fist length? i.e. getting it caught in your coat zip?

Now i have a million and 1 reasons to love this brother. :brother:

Even though i have a beard,i have a problem with people who makes comments such as "look at that brother,he doesnt have a beard!astugfirullah!"

I mean,billy the goat and santa claus have beards.....they arent going to heaven....

A person with a beard and a person without a beard can have just as much iman and taqwa.

Ofcourse a beard is good to have,allhumdulilah.

but to those people out there that feel that it is their right to lecture those people without beards....get stuffed.

(..no..no..i wont get all worked up...)

 

[Helena]

Now i have a million and 1 reasons to love this brother. :brother:

Even though i have a beard,i have a problem with people who makes comments such as "look at that brother,he doesnt have a beard!astugfirullah!"

I mean,billy the goat and santa claus have beards.....they arent going to heaven....

A person with a beard and a person without a beard can have just as much iman and taqwa.

Ofcourse a beard is good to have,allhumdulilah.

but to those people out there that feel that it is their right to lecture those people without beards....get stuffed.

(..no..no..i wont get all worked up...)

ur kinda rite...am not totally wid u...wots wid the goat and santa cluse example...thats out of order...

beard is the sunnah of our prophet(saw)....his our role model, we shud follow his every example, without a beard, isnt it incomplete?

 

[Aly]

Now i have a million and 1 reasons to love this brother. :brother:

Even though i have a beard,i have a problem with people who makes comments such as "look at that brother,he doesnt have a beard!astugfirullah!"

I mean,billy the goat and santa claus have beards.....they arent going to heaven....

A person with a beard and a person without a beard can have just as much iman and taqwa.

Ofcourse a beard is good to have,allhumdulilah.

but to those people out there that feel that it is their right to lecture those people without beards....get stuffed.

(..no..no..i wont get all worked up...)

:X well

 

[SirZubair]

beard is the sunnah of our prophet(saw)....his our role model, we shud follow his every example, without a beard, isnt it incomplete?

It might be incomplete,it might not be.

At the end of the day,only Allah swt can answer that.

I know muslim brothers with the biggest and bushiest beards,who has the worst manners.They treat their mothers,wives,sisters,brother,fathers...pretty much every,like Dirt.never do righteous deeds (and they admit to it)

And i know other muslim brothers without beards,who are kind to Humans,Animals,Insects,..Do righteous deeds at every turn.

Keeping a beard is a Sunnah,but one wont end up in hell for not having one.

Alot of muslims see a beard as an 'iman meter'

Well,...it isnt.

wa'salaam.

 

[Aly]

beard is the sunnah of our prophet(saw)....his our role model, we shud follow his every example, without a beard, isnt it incomplete?

i am agree with you Helena that beard is a sunnah of our PROPHET(PBUH) but i am not agreed that without beard islam is incomplete ,agian i will say its your choice to have a beard but its not necessary ....

for example : if some body cant make a Huj and what will u say his islam is incomplete ? totally rong ....... every muslim should perform huj but if some body cant do it there is nothign rong .....

Again beard is in islam but islam is not in Beard !

 

[SirZubair]

Again beard is in islam but islam is not in Beard !

I should have said that instead of using the Santa Claus and Billy The Goat example... ;D

 

[Aly]

Not to be a butthead or anything, but there is more to Islam than growing a beard. The amount of bearded Muslim guys I've seen chatting with girls is astounding. Not that I'm judging them. Heck, most of 'em are mates of mine. But I don't pick on what I perceive as their flaws, and they don't pick on what they perceive as mine. As a result, everyone gets along just fine.

But when someone drops the H-Bomb (that's 'Haraam' rather than 'Hydrogen') all hell breaks loose.

What was all that stuff we're supposed to be doing to unite the Ummah again?

yeh bro agree , its all our intentions which counts

 

[afriend]

All the great scholars of Islam unanimously agree on this issue that to grow a beard no less than the length of a fist is compulsory upon all Muslim men as it is a distinctive sign of Islam, and it is haram (forbidden) for a mature stable Muslim to shave his beard.

This verdict was reached on the grounds that there are numerous ahaadith where the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam is explicitly commanding the Muslims to grow a beard. In this respect a few ahaadith from Bukhari and Muslim are quoted below.

Translation: Ibn Umar radiyallahu anhu quotes the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam as saying, "Cut short the moustache and lengthen the beard."

(Bukhari and Muslim)
Translation: Abu Huraira radiyallahu anhu quotes the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam as saying, "Shorten the moustache and lengthen the beard."
(Muslim)
Translation: Ibn Umar radiyallahu anhu quotes the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam as saying, "Grow (lengthen) the beard."
(Muslim)
Translation: Yahya ibn Kathir says that, once a person from Ajam (external province) who had grown a moustache and shaved off the beard entered the mosque. The Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam asked him, "What motivated you to do this act? He replied that his Lord had ordered him to do so. The Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam said, "Allah has ordered me to shorten my moustache and lengthen my beard." Besides these ahaadith, there are other ahaadith which support the necessity of growing the beard. Therefore, to shave, or trim one’s beard less than the length of a fist is haram (forbidden) and anyone contradicting this ruling will be committing a major sin and regarded as a fasiq (immoral person).
The above mentioned ruling applies to all Muslims as a general rule, as for an Imaam or a Hafiz it becomes all the more important to grow a beard as he will have to lead the prayers and the Imamat (leadership) of a person who shaves or trims his beard is makrooh-e-tahrimi (severely disliked), although the prayer behind such a person will be valid. It is stated in a hadith of Ibn Majah that (page 77), ‘Let not a sinful and immoral person lead in a prayer of a true believer.’ It is also stated in Raddul Mukhtar (page 560, vol. 1), ‘It is makrooh-e-tahrimi for a fasiq (immoral person) to lead the prayers. An Imaam is the best person in the community worthy of leading the people in their prayers, he should be pious and apparently free from sin and immorality.’ In a hadith of the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam it is stated, "If you wish that your prayers are accepted, than the most pious amongst should act as your Imaam, for he is a messenger between you and your Lord."

It is apparent from these ahaadith that an Imaam must grow a beard in order to lead the prayers. According to all four schools of thought (Madhabs), it is compulsory upon a Muslim man to grow a beard and refrain from shaving it, or trimming it to less than the length of a fist. Given below are fatawas (religious verdicts) issued by the four Madhabs and it’s leading scholars on the issue of growing the beard.

Hanafi madhab:

To trim the beard when it is less than a fist’s length, as done by some western people and hermaphrodites is not permissible in the opinion of all the jurists. To shave the beard as done by the Jews, Hindus and others is also not permissible.

(Durre Mukhtar)
Maliki madhab:
To shave the beard is haram and to trim it in such a manner that it changes one’s natural and normal facial features is also haram. It is also quoted in Kitabul Ib’daa’, that without doubt the four Madhabs are agreed that the beard should be lengthened and that shaving it is haram.

Shafe’ee madhab:

It is quoted in Al Ibaab’, that Imaam ibn Ar’rifaah says that Imaam Shafe’ee, in his book, Kitabul Umm, has categorically stated that shaving the beard is haram.

Al Azraiy says that the correct position in the Shafe’ee madhab is that to shave the beard without a valid medical reason is haram. Similar verdict of prohibition has been issued by Zarakhshi, Baihaqi in his book, Shu’ab Al Iman, and by his teacher Qa’ffal Shashi in Muhasin As Shar’iyyah.

Hanbali madhab:

It is narrated in Shar’hul Muntahaa’ and Shar’hul Manzoomatul Adaab, the most accepted view is that it is haram to shave the beard. Some Ulama like the author of ‘Insaf’, have categorically stated that it is haram. There is no report from anyone to the contrary.

Sheikhul Islam ibn Taymiyyah says, "Shaving the beard is haram."

Ibn Hazm has narrated Ijma (consensus of the Muslims) regarding the obligation of trimming the moustache and keeping the beard, he brings the following ahaadith in support of this Ijma:

Translation: "Oppose the Mushrikeen polytheists), trim the moustache and lengthen the beard."

(Muslim)
Translation: "Whosoever does not trim his moustache, he is not from amongst us."
(Ahmed Tirmidhi and Nasai)
The following are some fatawas given, issued by some prominent Muftis of the Arab world, in recent time regarding the necessity of keeping the beard.
Sheikh ibn Abdur Rahman Al Banna writes in Fathur Rabbani, "Shaving the beard is strictly haram. This is the madhab of Hanbalis and Zahiriyyah. Sheikh Nasir Uddin Albani writes, "Due to the above references, it is wajib to lengthen the beard and to shave is haram."

Sheikh Abu Bakr Al Jazari writes, "One should leave his beard until it fills his face, because the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam has ordered, shorten your moustaches and lengthen your beards."

We can conclude from what has been said that to keep a beard is compulsory and to trim it or shave it is haram.

Keeping the beard has been the practice of the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam, as it has also been the practice of the earlier Prophets before him.

When Musa alaihis salaam returned from his journey of Mount Tur and found the Israelites engrossed in idolatry, he became furious and in severe anger he pulled the beard of his deputy (and brother) Haroon alaihis salaam who said:

Translation: "O son of my mother, seize me not by my beard nor my hair." In the books of ahaadith, numerous hadith describe the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam as having a copious beard.

Translation: Umm Ma’bad radiyallahu anhu says that the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam had a copious beard.

At an age when moral and spiritual decline is at its peak, acting upon a single prophetic tradition could insure success in the hereafter. It is narrated in a hadith,

Translation: "One who is steadfast upon my Sunnah at the decline of my Ummah, for him there is the reward of a hundred martyrs."



One Maulana has said, "Within a body there is nothing which we can imitate the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam. Our hands, feet, chest, eyes, ears, nose etc. cannot imitate the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam. There is only one thing and that is the beard, in which we can imitate the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam. He had a full, dense beard. We should try to imitate him in this matter.

Acting upon the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam brings the pleasure of Allah and in turn great rewards in the hereafter. Similarly, opposing the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam brings the displeasure of Allah. It is stated in a hadith,

Translation: The messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihe wasallam has cursed those men who imitate women and those women who imitate men.

The beard is a distinctive sign of a man and removing it is like imitating a woman and anyone who commits this crime earns himself the displeasure of the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam and to displease the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam is to displease Allah. May Allah save us all from Allah’s displeasure and wrath. Ameen.

Modern scientists and doctors have realised the benefits of keeping a beard.

One doctor writes, that by continually shaving, the veins of the sight are affected, resulting in failing eyesight. Another doctor writes that a lengthy beard stops harmful germs from reaching the throat and chest. Another goes so far as to say, "If men shaved for seven generations, the men in the eighth generation will have no beards. This means that the sperm gets weaker in every generation, until in the eighth this quality is completely destroyed."

Keeping the beard is the right of every individual. Therefore, even parents cannot order their children to shave the beard. The Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam said,

Translation: "There is no obedience to any creation when the creator is being disobeyed."

In such situations where children are forced to shave their beard by their parents, the children must oppose them, for there is no obedience to anyone when the rules of Shari’ah are asked to be violated.

A Muslim should strive hard to imitate the blessed Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam in all aspects of their life and refrain from imitating the non-Muslims.

There are numerous ahaadith in many books of hadith which describe the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam as having a full beard. Given below are some ahaadith regarding this:

Translation: Ali radiyallahu anhu narrates that the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam was neither too tall nor too short. He had long hair and beard.

Translation: Bukhari and Abu Dawood narrate from Abu Ma’mar, who says, "We asked Khabbab radiyallahu anhu, did the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam recite the Qur’an in Zuhr and Asar prayers?" He replied, "Yes." We asked him how he knew this. He said, "From the movement of his beard."

Translation: Muslim narrates from Jabir ibn Samura radiyallahu anhu, who says, "The front part of the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam’s hair and beard had become grey. When he used to apply oil, it was not apparent but when the hair was unkempt it use to become apparent. The Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam had a dense beard."

Translation: At’a ibn Yasir radiyallahu anhu says, "The Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam was in the mosque, when a man entered who’s hair and beard were unkempt. The Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam indicated towards him with his hand as though he was ordering him to adjust his hair and beard. The Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam said, ‘Is this not better than coming with unkempt hair like shaitan.’"

Translation: Aisha radiyallahu anha relates that the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihe wasallam said, "Ten things are of nature in which shortening the moustache and growing a full beard are mentioned."

Translation: Amongst the fitraat (Deen) of Islam is the cutting of the moustache and the lengthening of the beard, for surely the Majoos (Fire worshippers) lengthen their moustaches and cut their beards. In these two hadith, it has been mentioned that the beard is the natural beauty of a man. To shave it is a unnatural act. Also, shaving the beard is imitating the Kuffar, which is forbidden in Islam.

Translation: Ibn Al Jawzy narrates in Al Wafa Bi Ahwal Al Mustafa from Ali ibn Abi Talib that the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam had a full beard.

Translation: Tirmidhi narrates in his Shamaail from Abu Hala, who used to describe the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam. He says that the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam had a copious beard.

Translation: Muslim narrates from Ibn Umar that the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam said, "Oppose the Mushrikeen (polytheists), shorten the moustache and lengthen the beard."

In another hadith, the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam warns the Muslims not to imitate the Kuffar. It is stated in the hadith:

Translation: The Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam said, "One who imitates another nation, he is from amongst them." This is a severe warning to those Muslims who wish to imitate the non Muslims in their dress and appearance.

Translation: Anas radiyallahu anhu narrates that the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam, most of the time used to oil his hair and comb his beard.

The Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam used to take care of his beard and hair. In one of the hadith that has been previously mentioned, the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam told a man to comb his hair and beard. He also given the similarity of a man who has unkempt hair and beard with the devil.

To conclude, the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam has emphatically commanded the Muslims to grow a beard. He also gave a severe warning to those who oppose this command, especially those people who openly oppose it. In a hadith it is mentioned:

Translation: "All the sinners of my Ummah are forgiven except those who commit sins openly."

This is a warning to those people who openly shave their beards and have no shame in doing this act. May Allah give us all the ability to act upon the commands of the Shari’ah. Ameen.

 

[Helena]

It might be incomplete,it might not be.

At the end of the day,only Allah swt can answer that.

I know muslim brothers with the biggest and bushiest beards,who has the worst manners.They treat their mothers,wives,sisters,brother,fathers...pretty much every,like Dirt.never do righteous deeds (and they admit to it)

And i know other muslim brothers without beards,who are kind to Humans,Animals,Insects,..Do righteous deeds at every turn.

Keeping a beard is a Sunnah,but one wont end up in hell for not having one.

Alot of muslims see a beard as an 'iman meter'

Well,...it isnt.

wa'salaam.

i knw wt u mean.....

but still arent we muslims meant to have good character anway..having a beard...acting weird wid ur family...jus insults islam....weakens ur iman and the sunnah...jus playing wid our religion.....isnt beard meant to show islamic values in life....

but widout a beard...can have a same effect too...can be absolutely outrageous to ur family and do certain things unislamic...

afterall we are here for a purpose...if a bro stops growing beard, and follows the non-muslims....its jus not right...blood that flows in our body shud represent islam, we shudnt easily give up...we shudnt forget our sunnah...

Allah(swt) will judge us according to our intention...we can say intentions counts...if that couts...y shud'nt brothers keep beard? wt made them fell behind?

 

[Sohrab]

Hmmm again i will say we should not make stylish beard if we wanna make beard then make it properly but here come again that there is nothign written that you must have beard in islam ,i do accept that its part of islam but its not necessary to have it .

In Sura Hujuraat, Allah Warns:

1. O ye who believe! Be not forward in the presence of Allah and His messenger, and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.

2. O ye who believe! Lift not up your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor shout when speaking to him as ye shout one to another, lest your works be rendered vain while ye perceive not.

Some Ahadith regarding Beard:

1) Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Trim (your) moustaches and lengthen/grow (your) beards.” (Sahih al-Bukhari & Sahih Muslim)

2) Sayyiduna Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Cut off moustaches, leave beards and do otherwise than the fire worshippers.” (Sahih Muslim, no. 260)

3) Sayyiduna Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Trim moustaches, lengthen/leave beards and do not imitate the Jews.” (Tahawi, Sharh Ma’ani al-Athar, 4/230)

4) Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) ordered the trimming/clipping of moustaches and the leaving of the beards.” (Sahih Muslim, no. 1/222)


Practice of Sahaba....

Imam al-Bukhari relates in his “Sahih” from Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Do otherwise than those who ascribe partners to Allah (al-mushrikin): leave beards, and trim moustaches.” And Ibn Umar, when he went on Hajj or Umra, would grasp his beard with his hand, and removed what was in excess of it.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, 7/206)


I believe that Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) was known among other Sahaba (May Allah be pleased with them) as the one who most precisely followed Rasulullah (SallAllahu Alaihe Wassallam).

Keeping all this in mind, i would never say that it's not written anywhere that Beard is a must in Islam. Not complying with this strong recommendation (wajib) for any reason is a different matter, but saying that it's not necessary....i seriously doubt it.

May Allah give us all bros Tofeeq. Ameen :brother:

 

[Aly]

i knw wt u mean.....

but still arent we muslims meant to have good character anway..having a beard...acting weird wid ur family...jus insults islam....weakens ur iman and the sunnah...jus playing wid our religion.....isnt beard meant to show islamic values in life....

but widout a beard...can have a same effect too...can be absolutely outrageous to ur family and do certain things unislamic...

afterall we are here for a purpose...if a bro stops growing beard, and follows the non-muslims....its jus not right...blood that flows in our body shud represent islam, we shudnt easily give up...we shudnt forget our sunnah...

Allah(swt) will judge us according to our intention...we can say intentions counts...if that couts...y shud'nt brothers keep beard? wt made them fell behind?

Helena ok if we keep beard thats fine , but there are many brother who been taunted or been sakced coz of beard ... look now when i asked to one of colegue that what come in your mind when u think about muslims ? he replied AK47 WITH BIG BEARD

 

[Daffodil]

asalamulaikum

I'm just trying to help them, to fear allah(swt)!!!

With all due respect sister, n im sure ur intentions are pure but ur not exactly helping them by discussing other ppls beards on a internet forum.

Sister like i sed in the thread about sisters wearin hijabs but at the same time wearing tight clothes etc u need to remember that every one starts from some where, they may have only just started practicing, or may not be able to grow a beard it could have taken them years n years just to get it a couple cm's even. We shud think of 70 excuses for our brothers and sisters before we assume bad of them.

A person with a very short "stylish" beard may have more imam then a guy with a big massive huge beard n be more loved by Allah swt then those with beards.

Yep when we know some one is openly rebelling n knows whats right yet are doing the oposite because of low imam or wateva then its our duty to step in n giv some naseeha using kind words and eliquent speech.

No one is perfect we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

Asalamulaikum

 

[Aly]

asalamulaikum



With all due respect sister, n im sure ur intentions are pure but ur not exactly helping them by discussing other ppls beards on a internet forum.

Sister like i sed in the thread about sisters wearin hijabs but at the same time wearing tight clothes etc u need to remember that every one starts from some where, they may have only just started practicing, or may not be able to grow a beard it could have taken them years n years just to get it a couple cm's even. We shud think of 70 excuses for our brothers and sisters before we assume bad of them.

A person with a very short "stylish" beard may have more imam then a guy with a big massive huge beard n be more loved by Allah swt then those with beards.

Yep when we know some one is openly rebelling n knows whats right yet are doing the oposite because of low imam or wateva then its our duty to step in n giv some naseeha using kind words and eliquent speech.

No one is perfect we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

Asalamulaikum

you Rockin man coool , u rite !

 

[Helena]

Helena ok if we keep beard thats fine , but there are many brother who been taunted or been sakced coz of beard ... look now when i asked to one of colegue that what come in your mind when u think about muslims ? he replied AK47 WITH BIG BEARD

astagfirulla that shudnt cum in ur way...if u truly believe Allah(swt) and follow correctly our prophets(saw) example...then Allah(swt) will guide u inshalah, no matter wt this wrld says about brothers with beard....

Remember one day we will all return to our creator, every soul shall taste! and this world is jus a simple test.....every move we make is a test..

nothing shud cum between us and our lord...nothing...