Subhanallah how a christian reveals themselves to be false!

[MustafaMc]

Mustafa,
It's a parable in essence a story meant to illustrate a point. It is meant to remind people of the reversal of fortunes of those that do nothing for those around them. In this case the rich for the poor.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom

So, Catholics don't believe in Hell? I can assure you that Baptists do with their "Hellfire and Brimstone" sermons as evidence!

 

[Hiroshi]

So you interpret this passage as not referring to a physical torment of the rich man in the Hereafter, but rather as a parable for an earthly struggle. It seems rather convenient to twist a passage away from an apparent meaning that doesn't fit your dogma to something completely 'out in left field' that does fit.

The correct understanding about the condition of the dead must be based on the whole Bible, not just one scripture. Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV says: “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing”. And Psalms 146:4 KJV says: “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” Revelation 20:13 states that the dead are judged after they come out of Hades, not before: “The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.” (NIV) But the narrative in Luke 16:25, if taken literally, would imply that the judgement, punishment and reward takes place at the moment of death. Nowhere does the Bible teach that Hades is a place of fiery torment. As I explained, it means “the grave” even though different Bible versions commonly translate this word as “hell”. The Douay Version even says that the rich man was buried in hell! “And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell.” (Luke 16:22 Douay) Knox reads: “the rich man died too, and found his grave in hell.” The imagery here is very like the non-literal account in Isaiah 14:8-11 which speaks of “worms and maggots” in the grave.

 

[Hiroshi]

There is repeated reference in the NT about a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. An example is the parable of the good and bad fish caught in a net Matthew 13:49-51 "This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. “Have you understood all these things?” Jesus asked. "Yes" they replied. Another is the parable of the wheat and tares (weeds) in Matthew 13:36.43.

The events in the passage that you quote take place "at the end of the age", not immediately when a person dies. I understand this to be a reference to Armageddon. The weeping and gnashing of teeth is done by the wicked ones because they are facing destruction.

 

[Woodrow]

The events in the passage that you quote take place "at the end of the age", not immediately when a person dies. I understand this to be a reference to Armageddon. The weeping and gnashing of teeth is done by the wicked ones because they are facing destruction.

What punishment would their be in the loss of existence? such a thought does not seem to place any fear into the hearts of atheists. I suspect many people would see the loss of existing as being a reward and strong justification for suicide.

 

[gmcbroom]

MustafaMC,
Oh catholics believe in hell. However, to us hell is being removed from God's grace his word taken from you. It's about love. Hell, is a place without love. That's why there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. A place of total despair. It's not a place I ever wish to go.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom

 

[MustafaMc]

The events in the passage that you quote take place "at the end of the age", not immediately when a person dies. I understand this to be a reference to Armageddon. The weeping and gnashing of teeth is done by the wicked ones because they are facing destruction.

I understand that Jehovah Witness don't believe in Hell, but from my perspective the Bible teaches that there is punishment for some and reward for others in the Hereafter.

What is the basis for your faith? Do you have anything like the Nicene Creed? What are your fundamental articles of faith?

 

[MustafaMc]

However, to us hell is being removed from God's grace his word taken from you. It's about love. Hell, is a place without love. That's why there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. A place of total despair. It's not a place I ever wish to go.

...and neither do I. The concept of Hell varies from one religion to the next. In Islam, Hell is a place of active torment and is similar to the concept I had when I was a Baptist. What does the 'blazing furnace' in the verse I quoted earlier mean to you?

 

[gmcbroom]

MustafaMC,
The parable of the weeds emphasizes patience until the Judgement. The explanation of the parable of the weeds ephasizes the fearful end of the wicked after the judgement. So I suppose one could think hell is a fiery furnace. I hope I never find out personally though.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom

 

[Hiroshi]

What punishment would their be in the loss of existence? such a thought does not seem to place any fear into the hearts of atheists. I suspect many people would see the loss of existing as being a reward and strong justification for suicide.

The Qur'an, on the other hand, contains the most fearful descriptions of hell that I have ever read. But does it balance the scales of justice to inflict infinite (never ending) punshment on the sinner for what could only be finite wrong doing (during our brief life span)?

 

[Hiroshi]

MustafaMC,
Oh catholics believe in hell. However, to us hell is being removed from God's grace his word taken from you. It's about love. Hell, is a place without love. That's why there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. A place of total despair. It's not a place I ever wish to go.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom

I've got some bad news for you then. The Catholic Douay Version says this at Ecclesiastes 9:10: "Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor wisdom, nor knowledge shall be in hell, whither thou art hastening."

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/23009.htm

The verse says that you are hastening to hell. Any thoughts on that?

 

[gmcbroom]

Hiroshi,
So I'm going to hell for offending somone? Hmmmmm.......things to ponder my friend thank you.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom

 

[Hiroshi]

I understand that Jehovah Witness don't believe in Hell, but from my perspective the Bible teaches that there is punishment for some and reward for others in the Hereafter.

What is the basis for your faith? Do you have anything like the Nicene Creed? What are your fundamental articles of faith?

There are a number of accounts in the Bible where someone who has died gets resurrected back from the dead. It would be helpful if any of these resurrected ones could have mentioned anything describing about their experience of being dead so that we could know if they could recall any memory of being conscious. But the Bible unfortunately contains no such description by anyone resurrected. The Qur'an however does.

Surah 2:259 is a account of a man who died for 100 years and then returned to life. What could he remember? Absolutely nothing. He thought that only a short interval had passed ("part of a day") even though it was a century of time.

The Bible agrees that the dead are conscious of nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5). But there will come the time when the dead will be resurrected. Only those "counted worthy" (Luke 20:35) would be resurrected, not everyone. Those resurrected first would go to heaven to be with Jesus and to rule as kings with him for 1,000 years over the earth (Daniel 7:27; Revelation 20:4). Others would be resurrected to llive upon the earth (along with Armageddon survivors) under that kingdom of heaven (Daniel 12:2). Satan and the demons would be cast into an abyss during that 1,000 years (Revelation 20:3). By the end of the 1,000 years those upon the earth would be restored to perfection and be totally free from inherited sin from Adam. Then Satan would be released to be given the chance to launch a last final attack upon perfect mankind to try to corrupt them (Revelation 20:7-8). Some would fall prey to Satan's influence. But these would not be allowed to harm those who loyally choose to take sides with God. Finally all human rebels as well as Satan and his demons would be destroyed forever and no one would ever again challenge God's rulership or the faithfulness and integrity of God's human or angelic creatures.

 

[Hiroshi]

Hiroshi,
So I'm going to hell for offending somone? Hmmmmm.......things to ponder my friend thank you.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom

I didn't say that. Everybody goes to hell, even righteous people like Jacob, Joseph ("I will go down to my son into hell" Genesis 37:35 (Douay)) and Jesus (Acts 2:27).

 

[MustafaMc]

Hiroshi, thank you for clarifying your beliefs.

 

[Hiroshi]

Hiroshi,
So I'm going to hell for offending somone? Hmmmmm.......things to ponder my friend thank you.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom

The most common word translated as "hell" is Hebrew "sheol" which is always rendered "hades" in the Greek Septuagint (as well as in the NT where it quotes from the Hebrew: Psalms 16:10/Acts 2:27). But sheol/hades simply means "the grave" as at 1 Corinthians 15:55 KJV. We all go to the grave when we die. Therefore all of us go to hell. And come out of it. Revelation 20:13 KJV says "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them".