Sunni - Shi'a unity

[Zafran]

Ohhh, so Erdogan is not courage but Ahmadinejad is? At least under Erdogan both shia and sunni can have their mosques, azan; and they are not getting cursed or massacred. I'll take a man who respects basic rights any day over a two-faced loud mouth.

salaam

read my post again you've misunderstood it.

peace

 

[FS123]

Very important message:

 

[Maryan0]

Salaam

They are a majority in Bahrain, they are a minority in saudi arabia, 1/3 of pakistan, easily half of Iraq and all of azerbajian - so they are a sizeable minority in the muslim world.

peace

How big are the populations in those countries? Shia's do exist that wasnt my point it's just that the vast majority of Shia's come from Iran and Iran has a very large population. The Muslims in India numbers wise are very large but they are dwarfed by the hindu's because India has such a large population. I still stand by my point that we wouldnt even by talking unity if not Iran. and i'm not referring to the 60% that live in Iraq vs the 40%sunnis or the tiny island of Bahrain or Azerbaijan. Shia's are the largest minority amongst muslims but even with the 80 million that live in Iran and the other countries you mentioned they are still fairly tiny when we look at the demographics of the Muslim world and would be even more so if Iran wasnt in the picture.
Salam

 

[FS123]

salaam

read my post again you've misunderstood it.

peace

My apologies, I stand corrected.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

If we are to unite for some kind of strategic military reason, then this is a secular form of unity.

If we are to unite for any kind of monetary advantage, then this is a form of secular unity.

If we are to unite only with the people who believe the same as we do, then this is also a kind of secular unity, aethists also seem to desire this unity.

If we are to unite by seeking justice for all people despite our differences, if we are to compete in doing good deeds, and helping others, then I believe this is a unity of God.

The same God created all people, and hears all our prayers dispite all our differences, and you will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

In the spirit of praying for justice for the poor the marginalised and the oppressed.

Eric

 

[Zafran]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

If we are to unite for some kind of strategic military reason, then this is a secular form of unity.

If we are to unite for any kind of monetary advantage, then this is a form of secular unity.

If we are to unite only with the people who believe the same as we do, then this is also a kind of secular unity, aethists also seem to desire this unity.

If we are to unite by seeking justice for all people despite our differences, if we are to compete in doing good deeds, and helping others, then I believe this is a unity of God.

The same God created all people, and hears all our prayers dispite all our differences, and you will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

In the spirit of praying for justice for the poor the marginalised and the oppressed.

Eric

salaam

ameen to that

peace.

 

[Futuwwa]

If we are to unite by seeking justice for all people despite our differences, if we are to compete in doing good deeds, and helping others, then I believe this is a unity of God.

This is a kind of unity I can sign up for. With a bayonet.

 

[Futuwwa]

When the hypocrites of Madinah were spreading lies about Aisha Allah absolved her in the Quran ( "Allah wishes that you should never repeat the like of it again if you are believers." (24:18))and the Prophet pbuh ordered the people who were doing so to be punished. Asking for the curse of Allah to be upon her is not Islamic in any way shape or form and is unacceptable. I personally cannot look past it.
the people of Oman who follow the ibadi school of thought have an unfavourable opinion of the Sahaba Uthman's time of rule, they do not curse him. There's a difference.

It was narrated on the authority of Ibn Abbas, that the Prophet (pbuh) said: "May Allah (swt)'s curse be on those who insult my companions, and may the curses of all mankind and the angels be on them too."
Like others have mentioned we can get along as people or unite against a common enemy but unite as Muslims? I don't think so. Particularly when they slander the best of Muslims. Like any of us can compare to the sahaba and all they've done.
Prophet (s.a.w)said, "Do not abuse my Companions, for if any of you were to spend gold equal to (mountain of) Uhud in charity, it would not equal a handful of one of them or even half of that" [al-Bukharee, Muslim]."
I will not accuse them of kufr but those who insult and curse the sahaba are severely misguided.
Salam

Then they are severely misguided, and will answer for their curses on the day of judgement. But they are still Muslims. Last time I checked, there was no part about compulsory sahaba fandom in the shahada.

The Shia are welcome to pray together with me, though I will expect them to keep their slander to themselves.

 

[Salahudeen]

Then they are severely misguided, and will answer for their curses on the day of judgement. But they are still Muslims. Last time I checked, there was no part about compulsory sahaba fandom in the shahada.

The Shia are welcome to pray together with me, though I will expect them to keep their slander to themselves.

If they have the belief that Ayesha was an adulteress when verses of the Qur'an clear her are they really still Muslims since they reject these verses and don't believe in them?

 

[FS123]

Then they are severely misguided, and will answer for their curses on the day of judgement. But they are still Muslims. Last time I checked, there was no part about compulsory sahaba fandom in the shahada.

The Shia are welcome to pray together with me, though I will expect them to keep their slander to themselves.

That is not the issue, the issue is can you trust them or they will stab in the back. And is this unity is for what? I agree with Br Eric.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

A few hundred years ago, and not far from where I live, Christians were killing each other for not having the right beliefs. A hundred years ago we just resorted to cursing each other. Now it is a great blessing that we can pray together, we can pray for each other and the needs of the world.

Unity has to start with prayer, and for a number of years Christians from different denominations have been meeting for a monthly prayer breakfast, and I have just been to one this morning. Our ministers from different denominations meet together monthly.

Some tasks are too big for any one church to do on their own, and I find it a great blessing when Christians can work and pray together.

I would love to see more barriers come down, I would love to pray with and pray for non- Christians. Somehow the same God hears all our prayers, each and every one of us is very special to God.

In the spirit of praying for peace in our time

Eric

 

[Futuwwa]

If they have the belief that Ayesha was an adulteress when verses of the Qur'an clear her are they really still Muslims since they reject these verses and don't believe in them?

Considering the fact that they acknowledge the same Quran as we do, my guess is that they either don't actually believe she committed adultery in that incident, or have an explanation for those verses that you or I haven't heard about. In neither case would they actually reject any verses, just reject your interpretation of what those verses mean.

 

[Futuwwa]

That is not the issue, the issue is can you trust them or they will stab in the back.

How can I trust Sunnis? Maybe they will stab me in the back too?

I don't base human relations on the presumption that belonging to a particular group, in itself, makes people inherently evil.

 

[FS123]

How can I trust Sunnis? Maybe they will stab me in the back too?

I don't base human relations on the presumption that belonging to a particular group, in itself, makes people inherently evil.

Neither do I. It is because of their views. It is like saying Palestinians don't trust Zionist because they belong to a particular group. But is that the reason?

I don't trust every sunni, but here we are talking in context of military support. Neither I consider them evil. I deal with both in business muslims and non-muslims, I don't trust them with my life but I deal with them justly and kindly. Not trusting them doesn't translate to considering them evil or not treating them justly and kindly. Not trusting and dealing justly and kindly are separate things.

Issue is not belonging to a different group but it is their behavior and views. There are sufis, a different group and not my cup of tea, but I found them nice. You are worried about few here calling them kafir, but large number of them believe sunni to be fasiq, munafiq, and sometimes even kaffir for not following Imam Ali (according to their belief because Allah appointed him Imam after Prophet(pbuh)). You will not know this until you spend some considerable time with them. Not everyone is like that, I met few nice shias, but majority had hateful views for the sunnis. At that time I wasn't a sunni, so maybe they were more open to me. This is not about belonging to a different group. We trust them and they double cross and start to oppress, but then it will be too late.

This doesn't mean we can't treat them kindly and justly, but when it comes to trust it is entirely different issue.

Watch this video:

Ethnic and religious minorities make up nearly half of the Iranian population. Discontent among various minority groups has risen sharply over the past three years. Since Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad came to power in August 2005, the government has promoted the country’s majority Persian and Shi’a Muslim identity forcefully. In contravention to formal guarantees in the Iranian constitution and international commitments, Iran continued a crackdown on ethnic and religious minorities in 2007 through police repression, discrimination in education, and state media campaigns. The victims included Baluchis and Turkomans, Kurds and Sunni Muslims. UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon issued a report on human rights in Iran in October 2008 that highlighted the regime’s abuse against women and minorities as well as one issued in the 64th session of 2010.

The document also mentions increasing harassment, intimidation and persecution of political opponents and human rights defenders, forced closure of the Defenders of Human Rights Centre including the arrest of its staff, discrimination and other human rights violations against persons belonging to religious, ethnic, linguistic or other minorities like Arabs, Azeris, Baluchis, Kurds, Christians, Jews, Sufis and Sunni Muslims and their defenders as well as attacks on Baha’is and their faith in state sponsored media, increasing evidence of efforts by Iran to identity, monitor and arbitrarily detain Baha’is, preventing members of the Baha’i Faith from attending university and from sustaining themselves financially, and the continuing detention of seven Baha’i leaders arrested in March and May 2008 for serious charges but without meaningful access to legal representation.

In the post-election protests to the alleged fraud in the presidential elections of 2009, Iran’s security forces arrested over 4,000 people, and in the past year tens of journalists and human rights activists have been imprisoned by the Islamic Republic. Since then many lawyers have also become the target of persecution for their attempts to defend political detainees.

Before, the Sunni community was allowed to hold Eid congregation but now some Shiite extremists using their governing power have banned Sunnis of Tehran to do that. In addition there are other cities where the Sunni community was also banned to hold their congregation, including Isfahan, Kashan, Qum, Kirman, and Yazd. According to Iran’s local newspaper “The Sunni News”, this Shi’a state sent forces to secure venues of Sunni Eid congregation and forced them away led by a Sunni scholar.

Iran has been arresting people and then pressing charges as opposed to it being the other way round and it has alarmingly been carrying out executions against Sunni minorities under various pretexts including drug trafficking.

http://opinion.bdnews24.com/2010/11/03/sunni-persecution-in-iran/

Trust them for a military alliance, are you kidding me?

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Futuwwa;

How can I trust Sunnis? Maybe they will stab me in the back too?

More to the point, how can Sunnis trust you, what would you do to them, do Sunnis have any proof that you could be trusted?

In matters of peace and unity someone has to make the first move, someone has to put their trust in God, does God want unity, will God help those who do his will?

Every blessing be with you.

Eric

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you FS123;

Trust them for a military alliance, are you kidding me?

A military alliance seems to be more of a secular reason for unity, is this the kind of unity that Allah seeks for us?

Every blessing

Eric

 

[flowergarden]

Salaam,
I believe unity will happen when everyone realizes sunnis and shia'a read the same Qur'an and believe the same things, but there is some extra beliefe in both sectors.

I don't see anything wrong with praying together, that is how it should be! a mosque is a mosque, haj is haj we pray the same direction... I just don't see why other talk badly about the other! it is haraam in Allah's eye, because He didn't say who find the right sector of islam will go to heaven, He said, he who choose and follows the word of Allah will go to heaven!

I find this to be a test to muslim and a lot of us are failing to unit.

Once in school while praying sisters and brothers started yelling, I am not going to pray with her.. because of the sector I belong to! That hurt, I am there to pray and instead I am ask to leave. Surely I didn't I finished than said to them they should be ashamed.. than left!

 

[*Yasmin*]

Some people here say their opinions about shiaa without reading anything about shiaa!.

 

[flowergarden]

I'm shia and I love it!!!

The truth is I love Sunnis too! We all need to get along, it is the Muslim thing to do, and the right thing to do!!!
Why fight when we can love?

I love learning so I learn about Sunnis too, and that's all we must do, learn from each other!

We are all believers of the Qur'an! that is all that matters!

 

[*Yasmin*]

I'm shia and I love it!!!

The truth is I love Sunnis too! We all need to get along, it is the Muslim thing to do, and the right thing to do!!!
Why fight when we can love?

I love learning so I learn about Sunnis too, and that's all we must do, learn from each other!

We are all believers of the Qur'an! that is all that matters!

Sunni and Shiaa (twelver) have differences which can't be ignored.

i read a lot about shiaa, i wish what i read is wrong!

and because you are a shiaa i wish you can give your opinion about shiaa cursing sahabah.

with respect,