Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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Don't jump the sister with fatwa's just post what you need to post which is relevant to the thread and go..

^^ woah that coming from me does not make sense..*relevant* hehe

JazakAllah khairun.
 
Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu wa barakathu,

Surely an interesting read but I just must say every time I come across people saying Taqleed is "blind-following a madhhab", as if that is it's meaning, I have to laugh out loud. But that's off-topic.


OK, something on topic. Just some thought that crossed by mind, please don't laugh.

We follow the learned scholars so that we are capable of following the Prophet (salAllahu aleyhi waselam)'s way, correct? Yes, of course. ​
So in a way or another, our main purpose is to follow Prophet Muhammed (salAllahu aleyhi waselam). We kinda "seek help" from scholars, who give us proof and knowledge, so exactly that our aim will be fullfilled.​
Another thing I came to think of, is in a any day situation.

Like my sister is for example, too embarrassed to ask me to help her in her project or grant her forgiveness for something, so she goes and asks my father to tell the message further, 'cause she knows I'm not angry with Dad so I'll take it easier and 'cause Dad can make me think twice etc. ​
She is not asking Dad for forgiveness, but sending the message further from a better source. Doesn't mean she wouldn't come to me directly, but maybe doing it thru Dad makes her think she's got better chances.. I mean she is "inoviking me" but through the stronger help from my Dad. Astagfiruallah, I don't wanna sound rude or anything, this was just thoughts and Allahu Aleem.​
I definietaly agree you should not pray to anyone besides Allah, and it is Allah whom your duas should be directed to, buttawassul has been defined as supplicating Allahu ta’ala by means of an intermediary, "means".
 
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^ tawassul is ok through someone alive or names/attributes of Allaah, or through your own good deeds.

Thats my view inshaAllaah

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullaah
 
Al-Zaara said:
OK, something on topic. Just some thought that crossed by mind, please don't laugh, but like we follow the learned scholars so that we are capable of following the Prophet (salAllahu aleyhi waselam)'s way, correct? Yes, of course.

So in a way or another, our main purpose is to follow Prophet Muhammed (salAllahu aleyhi waselam). We kinda "seek help" from scholars, who give us proof and knowledge, so exactly that our aim will be fullfilled.
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There's nothing wrong with following scholars, since they are alive in this world and we can benefit from them.



Another thing I came to think of, is in a any day situation.

Like my sister is for example, too embarrassed to ask me to help her in her project or grant her forgiveness for something, so she goes and asks my father to tell the message further, 'cause she knows I'm not angry with Dad so I'll take it easier and 'cause Dad can make me think twice etc. She is not asking Dad for forgiveness, but sending the message further from a better source. Doesn't mean she wouldn't come to me directly, but maybe doing it thru Dad makes her think she's got better chances.. I mean she is "inoviking me" but through the stronger help from my Dad. Astagfiruallah, I don't wanna sound rude or anything, this was just thoughts and Allahu Aleem.
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Again, there are many narrations where the companions asked the Messenger of Allah to pray for rain. Even many other prayers, however - after he passed away - they stopped asking him, and from the hadith quoted above [from sahih al bukhari] - it becomes clear that they stopped asking him to pray for them after he passed away. That was their clear understanding of the issue.

So it becomes clear that its not forbidden to ask a pious person - who is alive in this world to pray for you. However, once he has passed away - you should not ask them to pray for you since you are calling to them in a supernatural way and expecting them to hear you, although they are in another life now [i.e. the barzakh - the barrier between this life and the next.]


I definietaly agree you should not pray to anyone besides Allah, and it is Allah whom your duas should be directed to, but tawassul has been defined as supplicating Allahu ta’ala by means of an intermediary, "means".
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Let's see whats stated in the Qur'an;


Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Who provides for you from the sky and from the earth? Or who owns hearing and sight? And who brings out the living from the dead and brings out the dead from the living? And who disposes the affairs?" They will say: "Allah." Say: "Will you not then be afraid of Allah's Punishment (for setting up rivals in worship with Allah)?"

[Qur'an Surah Yunus 10: 31]



And verily, if you ask them: "Who created the heavens and the earth?" Surely, they will say: "Allah (has created them)." Say: "Tell me then, the things that you invoke besides Allah, if Allah intended some harm for me, could they remove His harm, or if He (Allah) intended some mercy for me, could they withhold His Mercy?" Say : "Sufficient for me is Allah; in Him those who trust (i.e. believers) must put their trust."

[Qur'an Surah Zumar 39: 38]



​
But what's their argument when they pray to other than Allah?


Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya' (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah." Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.

[Qur'an Surah Zumar 39: 3]



And they worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do you inform Allah of that which He knows not in the heavens and on the earth?" Glorified and Exalted be He above all that which they associate as partners with Him!

[Qur'an Surah Yunus 10: 18]



​
The reality is, that praying for their intercession is EXACTLY what the christians, jews, and pagans [even at the time of the Prophet] claimed to do. They believe that Allah is their Creator, Sustainer, provider etc, however - they worship other than Allah. Someone might make an extreme claim by saying that invoking them for intermediation isn't an act of worship, but it really still is because you're trying to ask them at a supernatural level. You're not asking someone who's in your presence, rather they're someone whos died.

Christians claim they invoke their saints for their intermediation, aswell as Mary (peace be upon her) and other pious people. Us muslims are falling into the exact same traps.


We know it's Allah who alone answers our prayers, so let's ask Him alone. If we want Him to respond to our prayers, then we should strive to draw closer to Him by obeying His Messenger (sal Allahu alayhi waSalam.)
 
Al-Zaara said:
Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu wa barakathu,

Surely an interesting read but I just must say every time I come across people saying Taqleed is "blind-following a madhhab", as if that is it's meaning, I have to laugh out loud. But that's off-topic.


OK, something on topic. Just some thought that crossed by mind, please don't laugh.
We follow the learned scholars so that we are capable of following the Prophet (salAllahu aleyhi waselam)'s way, correct? Yes, of course. ​
So in a way or another, our main purpose is to follow Prophet Muhammed (salAllahu aleyhi waselam). We kinda "seek help" from scholars, who give us proof and knowledge, so exactly that our aim will be fullfilled.​
Another thing I came to think of, is in a any day situation.
Like my sister is for example, too embarrassed to ask me to help her in her project or grant her forgiveness for something, so she goes and asks my father to tell the message further, 'cause she knows I'm not angry with Dad so I'll take it easier and 'cause Dad can make me think twice etc. ​
She is not asking Dad for forgiveness, but sending the message further from a better source. Doesn't mean she wouldn't come to me directly, but maybe doing it thru Dad makes her think she's got better chances.. I mean she is "inoviking me" but through the stronger help from my Dad. Astagfiruallah, I don't wanna sound rude or anything, this was just thoughts and Allahu Aleem.​
I definietaly agree you should not pray to anyone besides Allah, and it is Allah whom your duas should be directed to, buttawassul has been defined as supplicating Allahu ta’ala by means of an intermediary, "means".
Click to expand...

:sl:

May Allaah reward you for your sincerity

This is a sincere question to you sister.

Do you know or can you please explain to me what the religion of the Arabs of Jahilliya was before the beloved Messenger?

I just want to have that established before I reply to anything that you've said.
 
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:salamext:

I think i get what sis Mujahida's saying, like saying Ya RasulAllah in of itself isn't shirk (Depending on the intention.)
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Yeh.
 
Oh my -Qatada-, you gave me much to read and I have to go! But I promise, inshaAllah, I'll read this as soon as I return!

Selam aleykum,

'Ubaydullah said:
:sl:

May Allaah reward you for your sincerity :)

This is a sincere question to you sister.

Do you know or can you please explain to me what the religion of the Arabs of Jahilliya was before the beloved Messenger?

I just want to have that established before I reply to anything that you've said. :)
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Aleykum selam,

Firstly, stop those "smiling"- smilies. I hate it, it looks so evil and dishonest and as if one is looking down at the person... :hmm: And you're not doing that to me, right? :(


Secondly, you mean polytheism and worship of idols? When they asked stones and trees etc to grant them favours? Can you please wait until I read what brother -Qatada- has provided until you and I can discuss? JazakAllahu khairun both of you. =)

Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu!
 
Muj4h1d4 said:
:salamext:

I did, but Alhamdulillah someone understands where I'm coming from. :-\
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i understood it too, coz i was there once, dont worry bout it sis.

Whenever you look at the whole picture, you can clearly see what the sahabi were upon. Alhamdulillaah !


Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullaah
 
Al-Zaara said:
Aleykum selam,

Firstly, stop those "smiling"- smilies. I hate it, it looks so evil and dishonest and as if one is looking down at the person... :hmm: And you're not doing that to me, right? :(
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:w:

By Allaah, of course not! I just used that to denote politeness, nothing else. Like if someone were to come up to me in real life and say something, I wouldn't respond with a blank face.

I'm very sorry if it came across as anything other than that; it was absolutely unintended. And Allaah is well aware of my intentions. I'll go edit them out since they're giving a meaning other than what they were used for...
 
Al-Zaara said:
Oh my -Qatada-, you gave me much to read and I have to go! But I promise, inshaAllah, I'll read this as soon as I return!

Selam aleykum,


Secondly, you mean polytheism and worship of idols? When they asked stones and trees etc to grant them favours? Can you please wait until I read what brother -Qatada- has provided until you and I can discuss? JazakAllahu khairun both of you. =)

Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu!
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:wasalamex


Sorry to give too much info, but just to clear up that misconception - the 'Arabs believed they were upon the religion of Prophet Ibrahim. This is why they did the Hajj rites, circumbulated the Ka'bah, they sacrificed animals, they even had idols of Prophet Ibrahim, this is seen through the time when the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi waSalam broke the idols during the opening of Makkah.

But what we see from there is that these 'arabs actually believed they were on the true religion of Prophet Ibrahim, but due to their ignorance of the true teachings, and due to them innovating extra things in the religion - they fell astray and started associating partners with Allah in the end.


Look at what Ibn Abbas, the cousin of the Prophet said:

Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 442: Narrated Ibn Abbas:

All the idols which were worshipped by the people of Noah were worshipped by the Arabs later on. As for the idol Wadd, it was worshipped by the tribe of Kalb at Daumat-al-Jandal; Suwa' was the idol of (the tribe of) Murad and then by Ban, Ghutaif at Al-Jurf near Saba; Yauq was the idol of Hamdan, and Nasr was the idol of Himyr, the branch of Dhi-al-Kala.'

The names (of the idols) formerly belonged to some pious men of the people of Noah, and when they died Satan inspired their people to (prepare and place idols at the places where they used to sit, and to call those idols by their names. The people did so, but the idols were not worshipped till those people (who initiated them) had died and the origin of the idols had become obscure, whereupon people began worshipping them.



​
So we see that these idols which the people worshiped were actually the graves of pious people! Then they gradually got transformed into idols. How do we know? It may be that if we don't stop people from praying to the passed away pious people today, people in the future - when ignorance prevails - will start taking these graves and transforming them into idols and forming a totally new religion? Like the people before us did?


In Islam, it is our duty to stop a greater evil from taking place. And as me and bro 'Ubaydullah have seen, by going to Pakistan and India, ignorant people actually prostrate to these graves of the pious people... that might just be one of the reasons why we're so against it.



And Allah knows best.
 
:salamext:

Originally Posted by - Qatada -
...by going to Pakistan and India, ignorant people actually prostrate to these graves of the pious people...
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Yeh I've seen that as well and I totally disagree with it.

But I don't get how saying Ya Rasool Allaah is wrong :-\
(Don't give me massive fatwa's please, explain in simple english)
 
Muj4h1d4 said:
:salamext:



Yeh I've seen that as well and I totally disagree with it.

But I don't get how saying Ya Rasool Allaah is wrong :-\
(Don't give me massive fatwa's please, explain in simple english)
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:wasalamex


I think it's basically because of what we been discussing, that it can gradually lead to that greater evil. Allahu a'lam.
 
- Qatada - said:
There's nothing wrong with following scholars, since they are alive in this world and we can benefit from them.

Again, there are many narrations where the companions asked the Messenger of Allah to pray for rain. Even many other prayers, however - after he passed away - they stopped asking him, and from the hadith quoted above [from sahih al bukhari] - it becomes clear that they stopped asking him to pray for them after he passed away. That was their clear understanding of the issue.

So it becomes clear that its not forbidden to ask a pious person - who is alive in this world to pray for you. However, once he has passed away - you should not ask them to pray for you since you are calling to them in a supernatural way and expecting them to hear you, although they are in another life now [i.e. the barzakh - the barrier between this life and the next.]
Click to expand...

Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu wa barakathu brother -Qatada-,

Ahaa! OK, I get it, elhamdulillah. I just thought I should say what I think out loud, better to get some opinions.


- Qatada - said:
Look at what Ibn Abbas, the cousin of the Prophet said:

Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 442: Narrated Ibn Abbas:​


All the idols which were worshipped by the people of Noah were worshipped by the Arabs later on. As for the idol Wadd, it was worshipped by the tribe of Kalb at Daumat-al-Jandal; Suwa' was the idol of (the tribe of) Murad and then by Ban, Ghutaif at Al-Jurf near Saba; Yauq was the idol of Hamdan, and Nasr was the idol of Himyr, the branch of Dhi-al-Kala.' ​


The names (of the idols) formerly belonged to some pious men of the people of Noah, and when they died Satan inspired their people to (prepare and place idols at the places where they used to sit, and to call those idols by their names. The people did so, but the idols were not worshipped till those people (who initiated them) had died and the origin of the idols had become obscure, whereupon people began worshipping them.​
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Oh, OK. I must've confused something - My knowledge is dusted these days, subhanAllah. imsad

BarakAllahu feek!
 
IbnAbdulHakim said:
im in agreement with ubaydullaah here Alhamdulillaah.

Even if its not shirk to say Ya-Rasulullaah, it most certainly can lead to it, and just for that reason we take the "prevention is better then cure">

its one of the reasons i dont listen to naats at all anymore...


Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah
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are you saying that listening to a naat with "ya rasul Allah" (it's quite common) can lead to shirk? how so?
 
:sl:
when/where did all this differing come from concerning this matter?
:sl:
 
maryam11,
don't forget this, because i'm curious.
sis, i remeber my mum telling me about it a while back about the types of 'yaa' in arabic and inshallah i havnt misunderstood so i'll touble check with her, and have it posted it up later, inshallah.
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with the strong prohibition against shirk, i think most muslims have no confusion at all about the fact that the prophet was a man and not a diety, whether they say "ya muhammad" or not.
 
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