Sura 2:29-31 - the viceroy on earth.

  • Thread starter Thread starter theplains
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 47
  • Views Views 11K
Where do we derive this from? Hadiths? Since the verse clearly says that Allah commanded the angels.
We derive that from the Quran which has explained repeatedly who 'Iblis' is- is it grammar you're having difficulty with or simply unread when it comes to the quran?
There are also plenty of ahadiths on the matter but surely the Quran has gone into the nature of Iblis and Jinn enough.. we even have a chapter so entitled.
Read the book sometimes!

best,
 
شَادِنُ;1555930 said:
We derive that from the Quran which has explained repeatedly who 'Iblis' is- is it grammar you're having difficulty with or simply unread when it comes to the quran?

Well, maybe it is the very nature of the Qur'an...where things are not in chronological order. For example, few verses about this very incident is in chapter two and the others are in chapter 7. So it makes it difficult to connect the dots.
 
Last edited:
So it makes it difficult to connect the dots.
Only if you've never read the book and have a separate agenda on the side!

Iblis is introduced when Allah commanded everyone to bow down to mankind. He chooses not to bow down. [38:71-76]. {{{Please note that [18:50] clearly says Iblis is a Jinn.}}} He (Iblis) later says that he will try to try to lead people astray on earth [7:11-18].
And if you were to look at all of the verses regarding Shaitan, you would notice that it totally correlates with what Iblis said he will do. [7:20],[7:27],[4:38],[23:97][14:22][and more].
With that said, Shaitan is a Jinn (because Iblis is Jinn, and Iblis is Shaitan). I won’t necessarily tell you that all Jinns are Shaitan because the Quran never mentions that.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Islam-947/2010/3/Human-relation-Djinn.htm
best,
 
شَادِنُ;1555933 said:
Only if you've never read the book and have a separate agenda on the side!

I have read the Qur'an. But of course, I didn't memorize it and certainly can't recall where every single thing is mentioned because the very nature of the Qur'an makes it sorta difficult. Why do you always think I am being mischievous?? ^o)

Anyway, I agree that Iblis is Jinn. What I don't understand, in one verse Allah says that He ordered the angels to prostrate. Allah doesn't mention the Jinns. In subsequent verses in chapters ahead we find out that Iblees did indeed receive the order since he is questioning it!! So, when did he receive this order and why is there no mention of it in the Qur'an? Is there any mention of it in the hadiths that you might be aware of??

The other question that arises is...What is a Jinn doing in the company of angels? Someone back in Pakistan once told me...not sure this is a fable or has any firm ground in the Hadith as people do create fables to answer difficult questions..... So what that person told me was...that this particular Jinn, Iblees was very pious. He was so pious that Allah was so pleased with him that He asked him to join the ranks of the angels and sit among them. :exhausted
 
Last edited:
I have read the Qur'an. But of course, I didn't memorize it and certainly can't recall where every single thing is mentioned because the very nature of the Qur'an makes it sorta difficult. Why do you always think I am being mischievous??
I don't think much about you. I only work with what you write- You don't have to memorize the Quran to discern it!


Anyway, I agree that Iblis is Jinn. What I don't understand, in one verse Allah says that He ordered the angels to prostrate. Allah doesn't mention the Jinns. In subsequent verses in chapters ahead we find out that Iblees did indeed receive the order since he is questioning it!! So, when did he receive this order and why is there no mention of it in the Qur'an? Is there any mention of it in the hadiths that you might be aware of??
This is a non-Question and immaterial .. the point isn't when, and if that is what you fixate on you'll have missed the point which generally is what happens with you!


The other question that arises is...What is a Jinn doing in the company of angels? Someone back in Pakistan once told me...not sure this is a fable or has any firm ground in the Hadith as people do create fables to answer difficult questions..... So what that person told me was...that this particular Jinn, Iblees was very pious. He was so pious that Allah was so pleased with him that He asked him to join the ranks of the angels.
This is an expansive topic and mirrors mankind in a way- there are people who are good and do the deeds of those in paradise so that everyone thinks them of the people of paradise but they end up in hell and folks so bad everyone thinks them the people of hell but they're of the people of paradise and we're given an example of this from Isra'lyaat with the story of Barsisa


it is just a question of what will make them flip and for Satan it was the creation of Adam!

best,
 
شَادِنُ;1555944 said:
I don't think much about you.

Of course! :p

شَادِنُ;1555944 said:
I only work with what you write
YUP!

شَادِنُ;1555944 said:
You don't have to memorize the Quran to discern it!
agreed!


شَادِنُ;1555944 said:
This is a non-Question

You could have said that earlier and I wouldn't have wasted your time. Thanks but no thanks!

شَادِنُ;1555944 said:
This is an expansive topic and mirrors mankind in a way- there are people who are good and do the deeds of those in paradise so that everyone thinks them of the people of paradise but they end up in hell and folks so bad everyone thinks them the people of hell but they're of the people of paradise and we're given an example of this from Isra'lyaat with the story of Barsisa. it is just a question of what will make them flip and for Satan it was the creation of Adam!

Thanks for sharing.
 
You could have said that earlier and I wouldn't have wasted your time. Thanks but no thanks!
This is as nonsensical as your Q. Surely even you can understand that stringing words together doesn't a question make!
other than that we've covered all that needs to be covered without engaging in vain discourse or innovating!

best,
 
How did Iblis and the angels know the viceroy would do harm and shed blood on earth as sura 2
says?

From: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=84962

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the World; and may His blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.​

Commentators of the Qur'an mentioned several interpretations of Allah's statement: {And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allâh) said: "I know that which you do not know."} [2: 30].

First, Angels said the above-stated in the verse after He, The Exalted, has informed them of the nature of the offspring of Adam (
icon1-1.gif
) whose nature is to shed blood and to make mischief on earth. This is narrated from Ibn Abbas , Ibn Masoud , Ibn Juraij , Ibn Zaid and others as recorded by al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir . It is reported that Allah said to the Angels: "I will Create a vicegerent on earth". The Angels said: 'What are the qualities and nature of that vicegerent?' Allah said: "His offspring will make mischief on earth, envy one another and kill one another" .

Qatada added: 'Allah, The Exalted, has informed the Angels that the coming creatures on earth will make mischief and shed blood. For such a reason they said: 'Will you place on earth those who will make mischief on earth?' .

Second, when the Angels heard the word Khalifa (vicegerent), they deduced that some of the offspring of Adam will make mischief, since the Khalifa is meant for reform and giving-up corruption, establishing justice among people and deterring them from doing prohibitions.

Third, al-Qurtubi (may Allah's Mercy be upon him) and other scholars reported that the Angels witnessed and knew the mischief and bloodshed done by the Jinn, who were living on earth before the creation of Adam . Thus, He Sent the Devil, before becoming a disbeliever, and his followers against the Jinn, who resorted islands and edges of mountains. Then, He Created Adam and placed him on earth. This narration is from Ibn Abbas and Abu al-Aliyah .

Then, it should be known that such a saying of the Angels, i.e. about the creation of Adam and his being a Khalifa on earth, does not constitute an objection to Allah's Will. It, according to Ibn Kathir (May Allah's Mercy be upon him) is a form of inquiry that aims at recognizing wisdom behind the act of Divine Order. In other words, the Angels say: 'What is the wisdom of creating such beings, although they make mischief and shed blood on earth?' Then, if the goal is to worship You, then we (Angels) glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You, i.e. pray to You and Obey You, why isn't Your choice limited to us?

Allah, The Exalted, has replied them with: {"I know that which you do not know."} .

This verse indicates that Allah knows what His Creatures do not know, even the evil they mentioned (making mischief on earth and bloodshed). He knows that the creation of Adam on earth constitutes a vital interest to life on earth, since He will send Prophets and Messengers from among the offspring of Adam .

In addition, there will be the righteous, worshippers, scholars, lovers of Allah and followers of His Messengers (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam).

Allah knows best.




Roasted Cashew said:
If Allah ordered the angels to prostrate, why does it matter if Iblis didn't prostrate..He is not an angel. How did he then disobey the command. Please do clarify this for me.
Please note that the following are merely suggestions and not anything concrete, as I don't know how reliable the sources are.

I think this one is answering a slightly different question but may be relevant here also. It is attributed to Dr. Zakir Naik:

The English translation of the first part of the verse ‘We said to the angels bow down to Adam: they bowed down except Iblis’, gives us the impression that Iblis was an angel. The Qur’an was revealed in Arabic. In Arabic grammar there is a rule known as Tagleeb, according to which, if the majority is addressed, even the minority is included. If for example, I address a class containing 100 students of whom 99 are boys and one is a girl, and if I say in Arabic that the boys should stand up, it includes the girl as well. I need not mention her seperately.

Similarly in the Qur’an, when Allah addressed the angels, even Iblis was present, but it is not required that he be mentioned separately. Therefore according to that sentence Iblis may be an angel or may not be an angel, but we come to know from Surah Al Kahf chapter 18 verse 50 that Iblis was a Jinn. No where does the Qur’an say Iblis was an angel. Therefore there is no contradiction in the Qur’an.


Another explanation:

Allow us to relate an example to make the point clear. When the ruling authority or central government appoints a Governor to a certain district, it is normal protocol that all the Generals of the army located in that district would have to come and salute the civilian Governor appointed by the central government. And when the General of the army salutes the civilian governor, it is only obvious those who hold ranks which are junior to the ‘General’, all the Captains, Majors, and soldiers of the army would also have to salute whom their General is commanded to salute!

Similarly, when Allah Subhanah Commanded the Angels to bow down to Adam (a.s.), all of those present who were junior in rank to the Angels were automatically included in that Command of their Lord Creator.

A third explanation similar to above:

When Allah Most Exalted commanded angels to prostrate before Adam, Satan was also included in this command. For although he was not of their kind, he resembled them and performed their deeds. Therefore, Satan was also counted as addressee to this command which was directed to angels. And he was condemned because he did not fulfill the command.

And Allaah (swt) knows best.
 
شَادِنُ;1555944 said:
it is just a question of what will make them flip and for Satan it was the creation of Adam!

an addendum for this post:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mus'ud (Radi-Allahu 'anhu):

Allah's Apostle (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam), the true and truly inspired
said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the
womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood
for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then
Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to
write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date
of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then
the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do good deeds till
there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been
written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds
characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man
amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and
the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his
behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of
Paradise."

Bukhari Vol. 4 : No. 430
 
شَادِنُ;1555822 said:

We don't add to the Quran that which wasn't mentioned that's how we know!

That's commendable.

Reading from the Abdullah Yusuf Ali, the verse in sura 2 says "We said to the angels: Bow down to Adam
and they bowed down; not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: he was one of those who reject Faith"

If Satan was a jinn at this time, why is he recorded as refusing to obey the command that God gave only
to the angels? Can you show me exactly where in the Quran or the Hadiths God commanded a jinn to bow
down before Adam?

Thanks,
Jim
 
That's commendable.

Reading from the Abdullah Yusuf Ali, the verse in sura 2 says "We said to the angels: Bow down to Adam
and they bowed down; not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: he was one of those who reject Faith"

If Satan was a jinn at this time, why is he recorded as refusing to obey the command that God gave only
to the angels? Can you show me exactly where in the Quran or the Hadiths God commanded a jinn to bow
down before Adam?

Thanks,
Jim
God didn't give a command ONLY to the angels to bow- where did you get that from? Read post number 23 I have already taken care of the long and short of those queries!

best,


 
If it's too hard for you to comprehend that Iblis was a jinn then look at his excuse for not prostrating. He said himself that he is created from fire. Angels were created from light. It's not a "Iblis transform from angel into jinn" kind of thing. It's not something muslims "made up". And please look at Brother Muhammad's post to understand the verse. You are basing your question off your misunderstanding, same as roasted cashew. Where does it say that the command was only for the angels? The command was said to the angels. That doesn't mean that there was no jinn in the presence of the angels at that time. If you're a recruit in the army and you go to another platoon's bunk and the commander of that platoon walks in everyone will stand at attention, will you remain seated just because you're not from that platoon?

I'm going for surgery in a few minutes time so I can't post references but I'm sure the other members can help you out In Shaa Allah.
Assalamualaikum everyone.
 
I'm going for surgery in a few minutes time so I can't post references but I'm sure the other members can help you out In Shaa Allah.
Assalamualaikum everyone.

wow should we be alarmed? in shaa Allah you feel better..
 
Just an ACL surgery though I'd be lying if I said I'm not nervous. Du'as are much appreciated :statisfie .
My trust is in Allah, for Allah knows best. Thank you sis!
 
oh lol.. in shaa Allah you'll do great.. athletic you're I see.. that's good many in my family have had this injury plus tennis elbow plus meniscal tears they all survived the whole things took more time in prep than repair you'll do fine in shaa Allah we'll keep you in our du3as..
 
شَادِنُ;1555977 said:

God didn't give a command ONLY to the angels to bow- where did you get that from? Read post number 23 I have already taken care of the long and short of those queries!

best,


In post 23, you said "Iblis is introduced when Allah commanded everyone to bow down to mankind.
He chooses not to bow down. [38:71-76]".

I looked at the verses you mentioned and do not see Allah commanding 'everyone' to bow down
to 'mankind'.

Regards,
Jim
 
Where does it say that the command was only for the angels? The command was said to the angels. That doesn't mean that there was no jinn in the presence of the angels at that time. If you're a recruit in the army and you go to another platoon's bunk and the commander of that platoon walks in everyone will stand at attention, will you remain seated just because you're not from that platoon?

If the commander commands all to stand up, all are required to stand up. But if the commander
commands only his platoon members to stand up, the recruit from the other platoon is not required
to stand up.

But getting back to our context. Does the command, which the Quran records as given to the angels,
include all creatures (jinns, trees, or other creatures created by God) even though they are not
specifically stated as being or not being present at the time? For example, can one speculate that
other jinns were present who obeyed the command, even though it is not recorded that they were
commanded too?

Thanks,
Jim
 
In post 23, you said "Iblis is introduced when Allah commanded everyone to bow down to mankind.
He chooses not to bow down. [38:71-76]".

show me where I said Allah commanded 'everyone' to bow to 'Mankind'


;1556119 said:
I looked at the verses you mentioned and do not see Allah commanding 'everyone' to bow down
to 'mankind'.
That's because you added 'everyone' from your own imagination as well 'mankind' I said and let me quote myself:



God didn't give a command ONLY to the angels
Does that translate to everyone in your book?
 
Hello Jim,

I offered some possibilities to your query in the second part of my earlier post #28.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top